Scuttle the Shuttle! Space Shuttle is a Dangerous Waste of Taxpayer Funds

Space Frontier Foundation ^ | 07/11/05 | Rick Tumlinson

[KevinDavis]

Los Angeles, CA, July 11, 2005 – In anticipation of this week's planned return to flight of NASA's Space Shuttle Discovery, the Space Frontier Foundation renewed its call for the orbiters to be retired. The Foundation, which for over 15 years has criticized the Shuttle system as too costly, urged NASA and the Congress to announce a firm date when the last orbiter will fly.

“If it were up to us the shuttle would never have flown in the first place,” said the Foundation's Rick Tumlinson. “Far from opening space to the American people, it has weighed down our space program with its bloated budgets, massive support network and tragic cost in terms of human life. It's time is passed. We should kill it as soon as possible, before more money gets wasted and, heaven forbid, anyone else gets hurt.”

[bvw]

The first Preamble -- for the whole Constitutuion also, and *significantly*, establishes an order. A ranking, a prioritizing of national goals and necessities.

[Atlas Sneezed]

What enabling clause gives the Feds authority to engage in this activity outside the scope of the military?

...eighth paragraph - "To promote the progress of science and useful arts..."

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I happen to know enough about this one to know that you are profoundly in error, or being deceptive, and thus suspect that your other cites are equally dubious.

This passage relates to the offering of patents and copyrights to individuals who have created things, and does not authorize government to engage in scientific endeavors.

[Atlas Sneezed]

The copyright and patent clause can perhaps be read not only to allow grants of copyrights and patents, but as an additional function of the chartered national government -- "to promote science and the useful arts" (useful arts meaning technology and does NOT include music and movies).

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Why do people insist on wilfully distorting the Constitution when they find a socialist program they like?

[jammer]

So what? Look, that position--that the preamble gives legal rights to the government--is untenable. Could the Republic last at all under, say, a Clinton if that position were widely agreed upon? Absolutely not.

No one has answered the question I posed regarding the preamble versus the rest of the document. I won't debate further--I've made my points and you've made yours (although I'll give you one unanswered rebuttal).

[meema]

I can remember very clearly who saw to it that NASA was severely cut back in the early 70s. It was the same DEMOCRAT CONGRESS who cut the funds to salvage VN!!!

[bvw]

"To promote the progress of" establishes that it is a national desire, and part of the charter to do so. The question then becomes is that power strictly limited to grants of exclusive monopoly (copyright and patent are grants of exclusive monopoloy). I say no because the administrations and legislatures of the founding era did allow other national activites to occur under that rubric -- at least including the Lewis and Clark expedition.

[bvw]

The Preamble is not seperable from the charter, not ignorable. The charter is a grant of powers, not rights, btw.

[buffyt]

If you ever get a chance to go to a meeting where a NASA spokesperson is speaking to the crowd, GO! It is amazing all the scientific discoveries that have come from NASA projects, going back to SkyLab...

[orionblamblam]

> there is no need to send humans into space at this time. It is a complete waste.

So are babies. All they do is consume, consume, consume. What are parents *thinking*?

[Kirkwood]

>>"Meanwhile, Aurora doesn't exist"<<

"LMAO! Yeah, sure it doesn't. LOL!"

OK, prove that it exists. Don't waste your time trying because you can't. Project Aurora was shelved nearly 20 years ago and never amounted to much of anything because the Aurora technology became rapidly outdated by stealth technology.

Even by your own statements there is no longer a need for manned high performance spy aircraft, hence no need for Aurora. So you either were wrong in your first comment about the lack of merit of SR-71 type of high performance technology or you are wrong now. Which is it? Frankly, I think you are wrong on both counts.

Face it dude! There is no operational Aurora aircraft! Only whackos who listen to Art Bell think it still exists. These are the same nuts who believe in Roswell UFO technology.

Now go get your tinfoil hat resized.

[KevinDavis]

Thank you.. When I get a chance I will..

[Calpernia]

I see no difference between NASA and the MIL.

Build it R.A.! and make space ours!

[Calpernia]

>>>>At least thats what many folks here on FR believe.

D.U. moles.

[jammer]

Well, we finally agree on something--the charter is a grant of powers to the government and a restriction on powers of government. God gives the people rights. I've taught that civics lesson many times on FR. If you want references, I'll go back when I have time to prove it. But your quibble is obfuscatory semantics--the powers of the government are the rights we let them have. Just ignore that and change "rights" to "powers" if it will make you happy.

Legally, the charter is definitely ignorable for reasons I've stated--and have yet to be rebutted on, except the repetition of your canard.

If you want a Republic that uses your reasoning, you won't have one long. And I don't want to be part of the ensuing mess.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"To promote the progress of" establishes that it is a national desire, and part of the charter to do so. The question then becomes is that power strictly limited to grants of exclusive monopoly (copyright and patent are grants of exclusive monopoly). I say no because the administrations and legislatures of the founding era did allow other national activities to occur under that rubric -- at least including the Lewis and Clark expedition.

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You are torturing the Constitution.

They gave a reason for giving the government power to grant patents, etc. and just because you find something else the government once did that advanced progress, you now argue that the government is empowered to take our money for ANYTHING that arguable advances progress.

Tortured socialist logic.

[hosepipe]

I say scrap the federal human uneducation department..
At least NASA can make some good TV...

Theres a LOoooong list of things to scrap FIRST...
But that would take a conservative president and congress..

[Scythian]

I say we power up a space shuttle, fill it with nukes and fly it into the Mecca obolisk (spelling)

[mmercier]

ya know, what a bummer.

I am watching the countdown three hours ago, and all is well... I take the wife out to feed the ducks, and come home to find out on FOX they are bleeding the tanks.

The countdown is still running on the NASA page, lift off about this very second...

So it goes.

[bvw]

Stop the socialist tag -- it's weighs down the rest of your comment with the lead of falsehood.

[r9etb]

Private industry can send humans to space at a cheaper rate...

Not if it wants to make a profit. There's no money to be made in sending humans into space. If it's going to get done at all, it's going to get done by the government.

Simple economics, Kevin.