Posted on 07/15/2005 5:50:24 PM PDT by nuconvert
There is no such ideology called Islamofascism and there exists no self-described Islamofascist. Islam is bad enough. It's simply an inaccurate term invented by neoconservatives who are too afraid to offend Muslims by honestly assessing that religion.
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The cells of muslim freepers haven't shown up the way they swarm every other muslim or muslim country (turkey - iran) thread. What does that tell us?
Islam does need to reform, if it can. If it can't, then it will either fade away gradually and peacefully or suddenly and violently.
But looking to a comparison to the Christian Reformation is probably not a good idea. The Reformation was a fundamentalist movement in response to the overly worldly and corrupt Church. The Muslim fundamentalists have a greater claim to being the reformers of Islam as they are seeking to, as they see it, return purity to the religion. The liberal and secular Muslims are few in number, intimidated, mistrusted, and at risk.
"There is no such ideology called Islamofascism and there exists no self-described Islamofascist."
He gives a definition of islamo-fascist : "those who seek to create an Islamic totalitarian theocracy through the use of any and all means".
Whether there is a group that calls itself "Islamofascists" and who invented the term, is immaterial.
Whether a group exists is extremely important. If a patient has a certain disease, you call it by its name. You don't just make up a new disease that doesn't exist. To do so is intellectually dishonest, adds confusion, and delays identifying and correcting the problem.
True, but it also challenged MANY doctrinal areas which had been sancrosanct before, such as papal infallibility, the holiness of Mary, etc.
The Islamic radicals may see themselves as the reformers, but they have still missed the target, as there does not seem to be any room anywhere in Islam for academic disagreement or debate without accusation of heresy. This culture in the Christian and Jewish worlds is what has made us last and kept us strong.
Dr. Jasser is for real.
This guy, Salam al-Marayati, on the other hand, from MPAC, who doesn't care for Dr. Jasser, (because Jasser opposes and exposes MPAC), is full of it. Notice the difference in their writings.
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/170/story_17079.html
"The liberal and secular Muslims are few in number, intimidated, mistrusted, and at risk."
That's sort of an oxymoron. As you are aware, Muslims is a term that donates those of the Islamic cult(s). So there is no such thing as a secular Muslim. I am sure it was slip of hand.
"there is no such thing as Islamofascism."
Okay. Call them grapefruits if you like. You're getting stuck in the minutiae. Go for the bigger picture and message being stated in the whole article.
"If CAIR were sincere and straightforward in its opposition to terrorism, it would cease apologizing for terrorism in Israel, which it blames on the Jews, and in Iraq, which it blames on the U.S.-led coalition. It would end its long-standing effort to identify our religion with its political ideology. It would break its ties with the Saudi kingdom, which include direct funding and other visible expressions of support. It would dedicate itself to the improvement of Muslim life among the law-abiding citizens and residents of the greatest and most generous government in human history, that of the United States. But CAIR cannot accomplish such a worthy and necessary aim. It is stuck on the crooked path of radical apologetics. "
http://www.islamicpluralism.org/wahhabiwatch.htm
When all is said and done and the islamo-fascists are destroyed. The Muslim religion itself will also fade away.
Or not.
According to Daniel Pipes there are 10-15% of the worlds Muslim that support the radicals. Now 10-15% of 1.3 Billion is a pretty big number but it's still only 10-15%.
Why don't we hear more from them?
Fear Factor
Tech Central Station ^ | 7/14/05 | Ralph Kinney Bennett
http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1443532/posts
Dr. Jasser is sincerely dedicated to ridding his faith of dangerous extremists. And wants every muslim to do his part to accomplish the same goal.
What makes you so sure about Dr. Jasser? Are you Dr. Jasser?
Yes indeed, and here are some quotes from the Quran:
This is islam:
Qur’an 47:4 “But if it had been Allah’s will, He Himself could have exacted retribution and punished them (without your help). But He lets you fight in order to test you. But those who are killed in Allah’s Cause, will never let their deeds go to waste.”
Qur’an 8:72 “Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave them shelter and aided them are your allies. You are only called to protect Muslims who fight.”
Qur’an 8:73 “The infidels aid one another. Unless you do the same there will be anarchy in the land. Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in Allah’s Cause are good Muslims.”
Qur’an 4:77 “Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold your hands from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to have feared Allah. They say: ‘Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting for us, why have You made war compulsory?’”
And for those muslims who do not wage jihad?
Qur’an 9:81 “Those who stayed behind rejoiced in their inaction behind the back of the Messenger. They hated to strive and fight with their goods and lives in the Cause of Allah. They said, ‘Go not forth in the heat.’ Say, ‘The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat.’ If only they could understand! So let them laugh a little, for they will weep much as a reward for what they did. If Allah brings you back (from the campaign) to a party of the hypocrites and they ask to go out to fight, say: ‘You shall never go out to fight with me against a foe. You were content sitting inactive on the first occasion. So sit with the useless men who lag behind.’ Do not pray for any of them (Muhammad) that die, nor stand at his grave. They rejected Allah and disbelieved His Messenger. They died in a state of perverse rebellion.”
These are wonderful words from Dr. Jasser, however to be frank they don't mean anything to me because the muslim's foundational book - the Koran - is quite explicit in its instruction that the good muslim should either convert the infidel (that would be me) or if they won't convert - then kill them (again, that would be me). As a Bible literalist I understand where the muslim literalist is coming from. Rather than spending their time and effort to spread the Good News that Jesus died for our sins and that Salvation is through Him alone, the good muslim will plow planes into buildings full of people. If Islam shreds their koran and comes up with a 'nicer' version - then I guess I would buy these words - but that isn't going to happen (the muslim worships their koran). Until then, my conclusion is that the hand of God restrains most muslims and keeps the majority of them in a gentle, honorable, and peaceful state... But this strain of moderate islam is merely a dormant state - awaiting the time that the 'believer' actually reads his book and believes it.
If you have any links that refutes the fact that the koran states that infidels (me again) should be killed - please reference them. The words in the koran seem pretty clear - and thus my problem isn't with the 'so-called' fringe, it is with their foundational cornerstone (the koran).
I don't know, nor does anyone really know for certain, what percentages think what. I suspect that the majority of Muslims around the world, while neither fundamentalist nor Islamist, are still rooting against the US. But what do the percentages have have to do with this discussion? I don't understand what you're trying to say.
No, I'm not Dr. Jasser
Is the Koran the literal word of god?
You asking me personally? No.
Great post. So why do the "Nuke Mecca" posts keep dancing around in my head?
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