Posted on 07/15/2005 5:50:24 PM PDT by nuconvert
That's nice, but how does one use Islam to take a stand against the radicals when Islam advocates violence in the name of it's god?
The Koran must be refuted to accomplish the task. I'm not holding my breath.
Pong
Blah blah blah. This is a couple centuries too late. I worked with 13 muzzies around 9-11. half of them thought we deserved it. The other half stayed silent while the others were blaming America. I understand Death to the infidels!!!
When all is said and done and the islamo-fascists are destroyed. The Muslim religion itself will also fade away.
That's a start.....but only after you remove them from their positions, and blow the whistle on those in your community who are teaching this crap in your schools, and making bombs in the basement, recruiting lonely young men and women for suicide, transfering money to jihadists, etc. Simple ridicule isn't going to cut it.
I completely agree. Nuconvert...I would have perhaps been taken in by this article 4 years ago. No longer.
How does the good doctor explain away islam's bloody 1400+ year history?
Do you really think that we buy this "hijack" a "peaceful" religion and "tiny handful of extremists" nonsense anymore?
The question is, do a significant number of Muslims agree with this position.
If you read more, he is saying what you said..............
"We can publicly expose the twisted interpretations of the Qu'ran and Muslim teachings perpetuated by radical Islamists who justify killing innocent people in the name of our God. We can focus the public agenda of American Muslims on publicizing our commitment to our citizenship oath and to the American secular form of democratic government.
We need to force a public debate with the Islamists, not run from it. By constantly reasserting Muslim critiques of Wahhabism, Salafism, and other fundamentalist Islamist ideologies that feed terrorist networks, we will fight terror at its core. It is time to ensure that Islamic sermons around the world teach Muslims to dismantle terrorist organizations like al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, Hezbullah, and any group that harbors, teaches, and trains the world's future Islamo-fascists.
In addition, we must root out all hate and intolerance from the educational texts in our mosques, which we use to teach our youth and our co-religionists. Anti-Semitism, anti-Western feelings, and chauvinism should be combated directly by American Muslim organizations. "
My bad for not reading on. However, why do I sense that this guy is a lone voice in the wilderness?
A good point, and one at the heart of the matter.
Here are a bunch of suidical Jihdists claiming they are obeying the command of Allah to kill the infidels.
Here is a major religion without any centralized authority.
What is a good Muslim to do? Condemn wanton murder and perhaps
run afoul of Allah? Or speak out on a moral level and be sneared to death by other Muslims. Most major religions put a limit on their extreme elements.
It seems the Prophet left out an important piece of control. How to correct heresy within Islam.
We need more Muslims with conscience.
Nothing to be "taken in by".
Dr. Jasser is sincerely dedicated to ridding his faith of dangerous extremists. And wants every muslim to do his part to accomplish the same goal.
Perhaps before people start throwing to may barbs, insults, jokes etc., they should read what this guys says, analysis it a bit, and then perhaps come to the conclusion he is amoung a few (publically any) that have address the options for fixing their from day one cult. Of course he is setting himself up for extermination by the looks of it, unless a whole body of clerics in the US sign on in significant numbers (those with authority over their given sect), with one voice. Perhaps Britain's and Europe's groups would sign on, and carry out what he proposes.
I am not going to enter a debate here. Some of us have not gone to any pains then perhaps reading a web site, to get a feel as how different Islamic sects in differing parts of the mideast and elsewhere interprete different versions of the Qu'ran, how the Hadiths and other books are to be interpreted, and only go by what they read from a few verseses we all often quote and or reference by book/verse,
and this leads one to automatically think every Muslim in the world have the same believes as to what to follow and what no to. The whole system of Islam and Arab culture is beyond the reach of most of us, so we assume every muslim thinks the same, follows everything in the book to a tee etc.. To think like that is in error. How many Christains for instance, regardless of their particular affiliations can really provide a solid understanding of the how,why,who of the OT/NT? Very few people I have meet over the years really study the bible, it's histories, all the bible translations, etc.. They take a few things on faith they heard since childhood. Same with many muslims. Many are not even well versed in transliteration when they have to read a particular version of the Qu'ran where the words are different, mean different things etc.. It gets very complicated. With the end result, most of them just listen to what their Imman teaches them, and are open to all kinds of bad shit. I said my piece.
He isn't alone, though I wish there were many more as outspoken. He is very anti-wahhabi, and The Center for Islamic Pluralism has a "Wahhabi Watch" on it's website which lists the American muslim organizations that it exposes.....and yes, they go after CAIR.
http://www.islamicpluralism.org/wahhabiwatch.htm
" The Koran must be refuted to accomplish the task. I'm not holding my breath."
Are you familiar with the process of abrogation? That is where various verses in the Qu'ran where supposedly struck out to be false, and replaced with another verse say some chapters later. This has been going on for some 1000 years
or so. Put it another way, if enough Islamic sects had top leaders (it depends on a particular sect as who is really recognized and the type titles they are given), that came together, they could officially abrogtae all the verses that deal with subjugation, killing infidels, etc.. Then all new Qu'rans that where translated (yet another version), would replace the old. Then of course the only really wide ones such as the Wahaabis who will go ballistic, will be exposed, as not wanting to act in the name of Islam to save the cult form extinction etc.. Plus then western nations could simply say, hey Sunnis' your welcome, hey Shiite your welcome, hey Sufi your welcome, hey Wahabi go to hell you cannot enter our countries and set up shop.
Could this happen. Probably is impossible, to many differences in the various sects to permit them a chance of sitting down and getting the job done. But their is a legitamate mechanism that could be used to erase verses from being read and used in the future.
I don't think it was "left out", it was purposely omitted. By actively forbidding any sort of public critique or debate over doctrine, any religion can sow the seeds of its own destruction. A good example is the pre-Reformation Catholic church, which punished anyone who actively questioned the pronouncements coming from Rome. Luckily for all of us, the Catholic hierarchy has kind of caught on over the years.
Quite a few Protestant denominations have no central church hierarchy. They do, however, have voluntary organizations which police their member congregations.
A hierarchy is not necessary. The police function absolutely is. AND a healthy debate over doctrine and Kuran interpretation will also help in policing "heresy".
No intention to insult any Catholics here, but from the standpoint of openness and toleration of debate, Islam is where the Catholics were pre-Reformation. Islam needs a reformation.
I have to go with you. I don't believe this.
Now that's pretty strong, right there. Encouraging.
Dr. Jasser is ex-US Navy. You can search a number of his previous articles here on FR under keyword Jasser.
He is sincere.
I ran across this gem today which pretty well sums things up. "Radical Islam is not the problem, the problem is orthodox Islam." Sharia Law...Over my dead body.
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