Posted on 07/23/2005 6:56:25 AM PDT by ppaul
As well as being extraordinarily popular, the [Harry Potter] books have encouraged millions of children to start reading for the first time.... For those who have a problem with the idea of fantasy and alternative universes alongside ours, we need to recognize that almost all children play imaginative games in their minds starting at a very young age and have no difficulty whatsoever in distinguishing between fantasy and reality....
Additionally, the Harry Potter books send a strong message about moral order. There are beautiful and enjoyable human relationships among the characters, and there is a depth of commitment and service among them.... Finally, I see the books as valuable because they consistently include the three fundamental themes that can be found as a subtext in almost all good literature: the beauty of creation, the appalling reality of evil, and the universal human longing for redemption....
J.K. Rowling does not profess to be a Christian, as far as I am aware, but she has insight into the themes that are at the very heart of what Christians understand to be true about the nature of the universe in which we live.... All truth is God’s truth, and non-Christians recognize that truth to one degree or another.... It is said that because magic is a part of the ... books, they may have the effect of interesting children in the reality of the Occult.... The magic is simply a part of the imaginative worlds....
Some people have gone on record as stating that they believe that J.K. Rowling is purposely and explicitly teaching Occult and even Satanic practice. As a Christian, I have to say I am profoundly ashamed of those who have responded with this kind of malicious gossip. We must recognize that whenever she talks about evil magic she presents it as evil.” (Jerram Barr, Professor of Christianity and Contemporary Culture and Resident Scholar at The Francis Schaeffer Institute)[1]
Breaking News
This morning, the publishing industry surprised the world by releasing a new, unexpected companion volume to last week’s sixth installment of J.K. Rowling’s hugely successful Harry Potter series. As word of the new release spread like wildfire, crowds of frenzied children and teenagers began thronging at the doors of hundreds of local bookstores in the United States and U.K., hoping to be among the first to receive their own copy of a book bearing the title: Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade.
Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade continues to perpetuate all the sorceries, incantations, and spells which have delighted children around the world. But this installment of Harry Potter introduces a new theme — homosexuality. In Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade, we discover that the Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry is expanding its curriculum base to provide mandatory training in homosexuality for all of its recruits. Harry discovered in Book One that he was born with witchcraft in his blood. Now, recent discoveries show that the same students born with the gift of magic also possess a genetic predisposition toward homosexuality. With this in mind, the goal of Hogwarts is to teach its students the proper and moral way to be homosexual witches. Students must learn about safety, monogamy, and even social etiquette.
But the race is on. A second witch training academy run by evil witches has also discovered their own homosexual predispositions. Unlike Hogwarts, they intend to use their homosexuality for evil. They teach their students evils like sexual promiscuity. They openly encourage pedophilia. It is the mission of Harry and his intrepid gang of sodomite warlocks and lesbian witches (dubbed “The Lavender Brigade”) to once again stop the menace of bad witches.
No Cause for Concern
Perhaps some Christians have concerns about children’s literature in which homosexuality is both a defining characteristic of the protagonists and a thematic element which runs from beginning to the end of the novel.
Relax. Don’t be so uptight. Don’t worry, Christian parents. Harry Potter is not the real world! It is an imaginary world. Children know the difference between the two. They are not going to start dressing up like their heroes or pretending to do the same things their heroes do in the stories. After all, it is just a pretend story. Thoughtful Christian critics will recognize that the author has created an alternative reality with a completely different set of rules. Sodomy may be wrong in the real world, but it is not wrong in Harry Potter’s reality, and it would be sophomoric to think that, just because the book is one long story about the glories of good homosexuality in the world of Harry Potter, that it desensitizes children to the problems with homosexuality in the real world. We should be ashamed of any Christians who would claim the author is promoting perversion. She makes strong distinctions between good homosexuality and bad homosexuality. Bad homosexuality is always presented as really bad.
And here is the clincher: Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade is a brilliant, well-written adventure that includes all the great themes of classic literature — the creation of an alternative reality where different rules apply, a carefully-executed plot, and clear elements of good versus evil. The story presents the beauty of creation and the appalling reality of evil. (Keep in mind that all truth is God’s truth.) There is even a strong redemption theme in the story as the leader of the pro-pedophilia group realizes the wrongness of his ways and joins the good sodomites of Hogwarts. In the end, good sodomites triumph over bad sodomites and order is restored to the alternative universe.
Confession
Okay, so there is no Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade. I made it up.
What I have not made up is the fact that Pottermania has engulfed the youth of a generation, setting an unprecedented frenzy of sales of the recent installment, Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince.[2] Within the first twenty-four hours of its release, nearly seven million copies were sold in the United States alone. Assuming a 9:00 a.m. to 9:00 p.m. sales schedule, that means they averaged nearly 600,000 copies an hour.
Also not made up is the fact that there are growing numbers of intelligent, reasonable, Christian teachers and scholars — some are friends whom I dearly love and respect — who are on record as giving their blessing to Harry Potter and supporting the inclusion of Harry Potter books as a healthy, positive part of the literary diet of Christian children. I disagree with them for many reasons, but it is the limited purpose of this article to focus in on and address what I see as their root argument.
The Argument for Potter
To begin with, there really is no debate between us over the basic facts of the Potter series. We all agree that Harry Potter is a story about young children engaged in the study and practice of witchcraft. The heroes of the stories are always good witches. Typically, the bad guys are bad witches. Second, in fairness, it must be acknowledged that these men recognize the wickedness of the occult and would squarely oppose the practice of witchcraft in the real world. None of them would want their children attempting to cast spells or dabbling in the dark arts.
What, then, is the fundamental argument employed by honorable Christian thinkers like Mr. Barr of Covenant Seminary (cited above) to endorse Harry Potter and to justify the creation of children’s books which are simply drenched in the glorification of sorcery?
It is this: Fantasy worlds are not the real world. Authors need not follow the same moral rules in fantasy realities. Things which are downright wicked in the real world may be introduced in a fantasy world and presented as good, if this literary device helps to serve the broader purpose of telling a great story.
My question is: If we may bend God’s moral laws in fantasy realities, then why is “Harry the Hero-Witch” okay for our children, but “Harry the Hero-Homosexual” not?
Both witchcraft and perversion are deemed “works of the flesh” and “abominations” in Scripture.[3] Both are immoral acts for which the practitioner stands condemned. Why would one be cute, fun, appealing, and — most importantly — legitimate in a fantasy reality, and the other unacceptable?
Not for Debate Today
Before presenting my argument, please permit me to clear away some debris.
First, it is not my purpose today to offer a broad-sweeping critique of the propriety and/or impropriety, strengths and/or weaknesses of fantasy as a genre. This is a worthy, big, important subject, but not my subject for the day. Nor am I arguing that because something is popular it is therefore inescapably evil. (I happen to like ice cream, and it does not bother me that ninety percent of Americans like it, too.) Mass entertainment appeal can raise concerns, but this argument will not carry the day one way or another.
Nor am I going to argue that Harry Potter is bad because it presents bad attitudes toward authority. To the extent that the bad attitudes of protagonists are either left unresolved in the story or presented to the reader as acceptable behavior — that is a big problem. But if this debate were really about bad attitudes, our criticism for Harry Potter would be similar in kind to that which might be expressed for 95% of the popular children’s literature and television programming of our day — media which is contributing by bad example to the discipleship in selfishness of a nation of bratty, disrespectful boys and girls.
Nor is it my purpose today to justify or condemn the Harry Potter series by comparing it to, or distinguishing it from, The Lord of the Rings or The Chronicles of Narnia. Similarities and distinctions between these series abound, but at the end of the day, neither the brilliant C.S. Lewis nor the ingenious J.R.R. Tolkien are the standard by which literature is to be judged. That standard is the revealed word of God alone which is a sufficient guide for all of faith and practice, including the development of biblical principles for evaluating literature. If either Lewis or Tolkien are guilty of employing literary devices inconsistent with a biblical worldview, then to the extent which they have missed the mark, we must be willing to say so. If not, great! But at all costs, we must not allow sentiment and experientialism to drive our theology. The issue is not whether Tolkien, Lewis, Rowling, or any other author can tell a great story, foster creative thinking, or entertain the reader — but whether they have done so lawfully.
I am less concerned with slippery-slope arguments, psychological arguments, or even empirical data about the number of children who have joined covens after reading Harry Potter. Some of the arguments are valid, some less so, some may be straw men, but none of these arguments are necessary if it can be demonstrated that, in its premise and execution, Harry Potter is inherently unbiblical, being in plain violation of the revealed law of God.
To Be Debated Today
The question is this: Is it biblically lawful to create alternative literary realities in which necromancy and witchcraft are presented as glorious, healthy, positive, and good?[4]
I say no because I believe to do so is inconsistent with revealed law. If pro-witchcraft fantasy realities are unlawful, then the fundamental question of whether Harry Potter is healthy literature is resolved.
Stated another way, the question is: Does the creation of “alternative fantasy realities” allow authors to employ literary premises which declare “good” that which God has declared morally reprehensible in the real world?
And another: If certain acts are abominations over which God pronounces the death sentence in the real world, should Christians glory in the same abominable practices when presented as desirable and declared to be “good” in the fantasy worlds of literature?
The Case Against Potter
The case that I would like to respectfully make in response to my brothers who defend Harry Potter is built on four propositions:
The seriousness of God’s prohibition on witchcraft and His declaration that it is immoral to practice dark arts make it unlawful even to pretend that witchcraft is a good thing;
Man may not lawfully escape the righteous rule of God by entering fantasy realities in which the law of God does not apply;
To create fantasy universes built on propositions which are immoral is to undermine the character of God Himself or establish false gods; and
God holds man accountable for vain imaginations. This means that fantasy is only lawful insofar as it does not undermine the moral law of God.
Point #1: The Seriousness of God’s Prohibition on Witchcraft
When you come into the land which the LORD your God is giving you, you shall not learn to follow the abominations of those nations. There shall not be found among you anyone who makes his son or his daughter pass through the fire, or one who practices witchcraft, or a soothsayer, or one who interprets omens, or a sorcerer, or one who conjures spells, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. For all who do these things are an abomination to the LORD.... (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)
The Bible, both Old and New Testament, has much to say about witchcraft, all of which is supremely negative. In anticipation of nitpickers and legalists who want to wiggle out of the prohibition against witchcraft, the Bible details by specific precept and numerous examples the wickedness of those who seek such supernatural powers and the judgment that will fall upon them.
The prohibitions against witchcraft elaborate to include witchcraft in any form or expression. Sorcerers, mediums, soothsayers, spell-casters, astrologers, and those who practice any dark art fall under the prohibition.
Witchcraft is declared to be an abomination (Exodus 22:18; Deuteronomy 8:9-12; 1 Samuel 15:23; Isaiah 8:19-20). Those who practice it are in rebellion against God (1 Samuel 15:23) and were subject to the death penalty (Exodus 22:18). They will not inherit the kingdom of heaven (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21), are detestable to the Lord (2 Kings 21:6; Micah 5:12; Isaiah 47:12; Ezekiel 13:18,20; Acts 8:11-24; Leviticus 20:27; Exodus 7:11; Revelation 9:21; 22:15), and will be cast into the burning lake of fire (Revelation 21:8).
Furthermore, God describes sorcery as an immoral “work of the flesh” and lumps it in with idolatry, murder, and adultery, declaring that those who do such will not inherit the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21; Revelation 9:21).
The biblical response of God’s people to witchcraft is to (1) drive it from the land (Deuteronomy 18:9-12); (2) flee from every vestige of it, even if this means publicly burning expensive books (Acts 19:19); and (3) rebuke attempts to mix the spirit of sorcery with the spirit of Christ (Acts 8:1-40).
Point #2: Man May Never Escape the Righteous Rule of God Supernatural powers, by definition, are the means to suspend or work outside of the natural law order created by God.[5] Our God reserves supernatural powers to Himself because He alone is the creator and the object of worship. He will share His glory with none other. Witchcraft is an abomination, not because of some arbitrary, localized principle applicable only to ancient Israel, but because it is rebellion against God Himself, who never, ever changes. Witchcraft is man’s attempt to be like God. It can involve the explicit false worship of devils, but it need not. Conjuring, sorcery, and divination are all attempts to have powers reserved to God. They are attempts to live outside of the reality in which God has placed man.
I am frankly amazed at the efforts of some to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel when it comes to the issue of witchcraft. It truly seems like we are often more interested in justifying the theology of Walt Disney, than we are in sticking to the plain teaching of Scripture. The fact is that the Bible makes no distinctions between cute, harmless sorcery (or necromancy or divination) and a bad kind. Any attempt to participate or dabble in supernatural dark arts is a crime in God’s universe. You can dress up cute little fairies in bonnets, but the minute they attempt to cast spells or invoke supernatural powers reserved to God, they become moral criminals.
Note that we are not discussing fiction about potential scientific discoveries. The exploration of the natural universe is explicitly given to man by God as a means of understanding Him better and for executing his duty under God to take dominion over the earth. And let’s not kid ourselves — Harry Potter is not about scientific children who create amazing flying-broom machines. It is about sorcerers engaged in witchcraft. Under the Hebrew economy, Harry Potter, the great hero of a generation of children, would be put to death[6] by direct order of the King of Kings and author of all reality — Jesus Christ Himself.
Nor are we criticizing Harry Potter for the inclusion of talking animals in its storyline. The Bible begins[7] and ends[8] with revelations about talking animals, a fact which establishes beyond any doubt that the inclusion of talking animals in storytelling is not per se an abomination which assaults the very character of God. Similarly, dragons,[9] demons,[10] giants,[11] and unicorns[12] may be the stuff of fantasy lore, but they are also real creatures discussed, as such, in the Bible. None of these elements assault the righteous rule of God, but a fantasy universe filled with “good sorcerers” does.
Point #3: Man May Not Refashion a God of His Own Imagination — Even in a Fantasy Reality The eternal quest of rebellious man is to escape the law and dominion of God. Man wants to create realities of his own where he is free to operate without the constraint of the rule of law as prescribed by God. The moral law of God and its application in the universe reflect the eternal, transcendent, immutable character of God Himself.[13] Consequently, those who seek to create alternative realities in which the moral law of God is suspended are, in fact, creating alternative realities governed by something or someone other than the God of the Bible. This god need not be explicitly revealed by name. He can be implied or simply assumed. Even the perceived absence of a god in an alternative reality presupposes some unifying, eternal, transcendent principle or “force.” The point is this: Every alternative reality has a god. Those alternative realities which alter the moral law of the God of the Bible thereby substitute a false god as lord over the universe they have created.
Like the Babel-builders of the past, twenty-first century man is discontent with the rules and realities given to him by God. He wants a different reality. It is the quest of some fantasy literature to satisfy this ungodly longing by recreating God in man’s own image. This happens when we construct literary worlds which rest on propositions which challenge the very character of God Himself.
Note that the use of allegories, parables, types, and symbolism can be employed in literature lawfully and to the glory of God. Jesus Christ modeled this Himself in Holy Scripture.[14] Christ-honoring authors may draw from a host of techniques and circumstances when employing such literary devices. But the moment an author redefines the moral law order of the universe, he has left the realm of legitimate analogical reasoning and creative allegory, and has declared war on God. This is the case for fantasy realities in which murder, perversion, or witchcraft are presented as good things.
The character of God is challenged when we posit alternative realities which redefine the moral law order of God to allow men to delight in that which would be deemed wickedness in the real world. Creating worlds of good witchcraft versus bad witchcraft is a prime example of the problem. No such world can exist — anywhere — not even in our own imagination, without redefining the nature and attributes of God Himself. The essence of witchcraft and the desire to employ the tools of witchcraft are an assault on the Lordship and sovereignty of God. By virtue of the fact that Harry and his friends are “good guys” in pursuit of the very powers reserved to God Himself in the real world, the god of Harry Potter’s universe is, ispo facto, a different god than the God of our universe.
And no one need ask, “What Would Jesus Do?” in the real world to Harry and his friends, because the Bible answers the question with deafening specificity:
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. (Revelation 21:8) Point #4: The Bible Forbids Not Merely Acts, But Vain Imaginations Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? (Psalm 2:1) Not all imagination is wrong, but vain imagination is wrong. A “vain imagination” is one in which man seeks to create a reality at war with God and His law.
We live in a world in which millions of men and women leave what they perceive to be a humdrum life of marriage to escape into a fantasy-world of alternative reality. They do this in their minds.[15] They are aided and abetted in this practice by literature, images, and film which become the mediator between the individual and the fantasy world. In their alternative fantasy realities, these men and women are not married to their boring, overweight, selfish wives and husbands. Instead, they are able to enjoy intimate relations, free of guilt, with seemingly perfect individuals who appear nearly superhuman in their emotional and physical perfections. Since this is only a fantasy — the argument goes — there is nothing wrong with it. Some argue that modern man can actually cope better in the real world if he regularly visits his fantasy world.[16]
Christian advocates of Harry Potter make the same mistake: In effect, they are arguing that little children may freely take witchcraft into their hearts by identifying with their sorcerer-hero and rejoicing in his magical powers — just so long as they would not engage in dark arts in the real world. After all, little children know the difference between reality and fiction.
This response misses the point. The Bible offers no refuge to the individual who says, “It is okay for me to imagine and rejoice in the vanity of immoral speculations, because I am not doing it in the real world.” If you imagine such things in your heart, you stand condemned. The Lord Jesus Christ answered those legalists who wanted to limit the scope of the culpability before the law to the physical world. He explained that they would be condemned for having wicked imaginations in their fantasy world as well:
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. (Matthew 5:27-28) The same principle that applies to pornographic literature applies to witchcraft-glorifying literature. Men do not have the right to enter fantasy worlds in which they delight in their hearts in acts of adultery. Nor do they have the right to enter fantasy worlds in which they delight in immoral acts of witchcraft.
The Use of Witchcraft in Literature and Entertainment For the record, I do not oppose the appropriate inclusion of witchcraft in literature. The Bible tells the story of actual witches. It describes the practices of these witches and reveals the laws against witchcraft. We learn of the divinations of Jezebel,[17] the consultation by Saul with the witch of Endor,[18] and the influence and rebuke of Simon the Sorcerer.[19] Witchcraft is in Old and New Testaments. But witchcraft is always presented as an incontrovertible evil.
Just as there is nothing funny, glorious, or desirable about adultery, perversion, or murder — there is nothing funny, glorious, or desirable about witchcraft (see Galatians 4:24).[20] It is one thing for a story to include adultery, perversion, murder, and witchcraft in their true despicable form as an element necessary to make a righteous point, but it is another to portray abominations as virtues. Any television show, film, or literature which does the latter is encouraging others to identify in their imaginations with evil.
To put it bluntly: Bewitched — bad! Walt Disney’s Merlin from Sword in the Stone — bad! Glinda the Good Witch of Oz — bad! The White Witch of Narnia — not necessarily bad at all, because she is presented as the incarnation of evil. Gandalf? You will have to do the math yourself.[21]
Concessions At this point, I am losing some of you. You have cherished fond childhood memories of these icons of twentieth-century culture. There is massive sentimental value associated with these stories. If the principles articulated in this paper are true, then there could be some substantial boat-rocking in your life — perhaps even some changes in your reading or viewing diet. I hear you. My own boat has been substantially rocked over the years as I have considered the implications of the character of God and His law-word upon the icons of modern culture.
Let me offer a little help and a few concessions:
Concession number one: There are some genuine challenges and tough calls involved when evaluating what constitutes Christ-honoring literature. I fully recognize the complexity of faithfully applying these principles, for example, to the use of various literary devices that appear to incorporate mysterious transportation vehicles or tools which possess unusual powers. Meditation, prayer, and reasoned analysis are the need of the hour. Faithful men may disagree on some applications. But the challenge of application never absolves us of our personal duty before the Lord to rigorously examine everything in light of Scripture.
Second, there is not a man on the planet who is perfectly consistent in the application of the biblical principles he understands, let alone the ones with which he is grappling. Here again, the fact that there are inconsistencies in our behavior, or holes in our thinking, does not relieve us of the biblical duty to become more consistent in the application of our Christianity as we take every thought, frame, and note — everything — captive to the obedience of Christ.
Third, many Christians are uncomfortable tossing out an otherwise “good story” because it has one offensive element. I certainly understand this challenge. For some, the answer is to perform a balancing test which weighs the good against the bad to see which comes out on top. But when it comes to Harry Potter, no balancing act is needed. This consideration need not apply. Why? Because the premise of the stories is witchcraft, the plot of the story is witchcraft, and the protagonists are all witches. From beginning to end, Harry Potter is a story immersed in a subversive lie about a genuine abomination called witchcraft. Period! Harry Potter calls evil good, and thus falls under the explicit censure of our Lord.
Conclusion Harry Potter favorably models for children that which the Bible clearly and unequivocally declares to be an abomination.[22] It creates heroes of a class of individuals that the Bible declares to be villains. In the world that God created, the heroes of Harry Potter would (absent their repentance) be enemies of the Church and eternally damned souls.
Moral evil does not become acceptable simply because it is presented in an alternative reality. There is no such thing as good witchcraft, good bestiality, good sodomy, good child sacrifice, or good Dagon worship in this reality (the only reality created by God); and man is not at liberty to free himself from the law of God by concocting fantasy worlds of his imagination in which the transcendent, eternal, binding moral law of God no longer applies.
Finally, the Bible, not sentimentalism or personal experience, is the only standard by which the Christian may evaluate his culture.[23] By this standard, Harry Potter fails the test of biblical acceptability. Just as Christians should oppose the glorified homosexuality of a hypothetical Harry Potter and the Lavender Brigade, so they should also recognize the systemic poison of any and all Potter books that are built on the false proposition that witchcraft can be a good thing.
But these two things shall come to you in a moment, in one day: The loss of children, and widowhood. They shall come upon you in their fullness because of the multitude of your sorceries, for the great abundance of your enchantments. (Isaiah 47:9)
It's immoral to ignorantly split infinitives.
WHY is this claptrap in the "News/Activisim" section of the form, instead of "Religion"??
I've never understood the knots some people insist on tying themselves into at the very prospect of other people having fun.
"Bewitched = evil?" Come now. Bad television maybe, but evil?
I have not read any of the Harry Potter books, so I can only go on what people say about them, or reviews of the books...I have no children or grandchildren of the age to read the Harry Potter books...so my opinions are merely based on what I have heard and read about the books, and what I have read on FR, by posters both pro and con about these books...
My opinion is that it is the parents outlook and right to decide what their children should and should not read...if you dont appreciate a certain book, because of its themes, and it contradicts what you try to teach your children, then by all means dont allow your child to read such material...if on the other hand, you see nothing harmful in the content of a particular book, then by all means, allow your child to read it...
All parents, all families, have a set of guidelines by which they try to live and raise their children...and gearing their reading material to jive with those beliefs is appropriate....
I know a few people who will not allow their children to read any sort of fantasy material at all...no fairy tales, no made up stories...their children are allowed to read only stories based on the Bible, or true life stories, usually pertaining to their particular Christian beliefs...they feel that fantasy in any form, is harmful to their children...that is their choice, ,and their children must adhere to it...and so be it...that is their right as parents....
There are people who object to the Harry Potter books, based on the occult themes...yet those same people see nothing wrong with the magic in say, stories like Cinderella, or Pinocchio....because the fairy godmother is using her magic for good, as is the fairy in Pinocchio...it is as if, they are saying that magic in a book, that uses magic for good, or just a little bit of magic, is ok....a little contradictory in my mind, but again, so be it...those parents have made a decision, and their children must abide by it...
And there are the parents who believe that any reading material is ok for their children as it encourages them to read, and especially if there is discussion of the themes with the parents, this promotes a flow of ideas...
I am fine with any of these choices, so long as its the parents who are making the decisions and the parents are comfortable with their decisions...after all, that is what parenting is about, deciding what your child should and should not be exposed to...we all parent in different ways, every family has its own set of dynamics...
What I do become uncomfortable with, is when some parents act as if their particular choice is morally superior to the choice of other parents...we all parent as we see fit to be in the best interest of our children...some folks believe that the Harry Potter books would be harmful to their children, others see the Harry Potter books as pure non-harmful fantasy for their children...to me, neither side is morally superior or better...its a difference of opinion among parents...
Here is the difference. In modern society, there is little to compell the average american child to believe that witchcraft is real, or to practice it in any real way. If I thought my children could possibly run off and join a coven, I might think twice about Harry Potter books.
On the other hand, Homosexuality is both very real, and increasingly prevelant as a choice for my children. A gook glorifying homosexuality could therefore be very influential.
Most people would understand opposition to a book which glorified the use of drugs, or the sexual exploitation of children or women, or any other criminal or deviant behavior.
You won't find anybody suggesting that it would be good for children to read a book about life on a farm that glorified people having sex with the farm animals (although apparently in some states that too is just a "lifestyle choice".).
From the point of view of religion, the author probably has a point -- we aren't too worked up about witchcraft anymore, even though in fact there ARE covens, there ARE witches and warlocks, people who sincerely believe in this stuff and who would love to get your children to join them. We even had a mother/daughter witch team talk to our English class in high school (that was back in the 70s).
But it just doesn't seem like much of a threat. And anyway, if I banned Harry Potter, I'd probably have to stop reading the Chronicles of Narnia.
Man has this guy got a pole up his A**. This is the kind of guy that would paint clothes on the frescos in the Sistine Chapel.
By his arguments, Superman is immoral. I hate idiots like this, they give Christianity and Christians a bad name.
Hey I have an idea, let's bring back The Spanish Inquisition and make sure everything adheres to exactly what the Bible says-according to Thomas de Douglas Phillips says it says.
"I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition."
"Ha ha. Nobody expects ths Spanish Inquisition..."
Are you kidding...Our kids are going to be polluted by
the Harry Potter stories?
If anyone is interested, this site speaks volumes
about the mental/emotional [st]ability of Mr. Phillips!
Look at those kids in the photograph...and their
parents! Everyone of them appears to be still living
in the 1800's! Then there's a pic of the Hotshot himself
at the end of the "Who we are" diatribe.
http://www.visionforum.com/about/
I suggest his greatest talent lies in verbosity!
It's called a strawman argument.
Zzzzzzzzzzzzzz read the books or don't... who cares!
oh for crying out loud. If reading Harry Potter books makes your child turn to witchcraft then guess what, something was going to do so eventually anyways. My son loves the book (and so do I) and I see no harm in a ten year old reading 600+ pages of a story involving good vs. evil. He easily recognizes it as fiction and has no desire to be a wizard all of a sudden. It he was that vulnerable he would probably be too stupid to read anyways so its irrelevant. Get a life
Not this again...
I am leaving for a fun day of outdoors adventure, but maybe you could give the list a ping to dismember this argument... in the first place, Rowling does profess Christianity, she has said she's a Christian and she attends the Church of Scotland...
And f the kids are playing with the ouija board and tarot cards, at least they are socializing and not taking drugs. </sarc>
By this reasoning C.S. Lewis' Chronicles of Narnia would be considered the teaching of Satan. I'm not even going to write more on the subject some people are just so lost in their adoration of the idea of God and Jesus that they have lost all sense of the reality. God enjoys well written fiction especially when it deals with the fight between good and evil. See I can put words in Gods mouth and its just as silly when you do it.
Hey, I saw a copy of "Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince" the other day. Now I have the urge to become a gay sorcerer. < /sarcasm> :)
Enjoy your outdoor excursion.
First: It is clear you have never listened to or read the Harry Potter books and you clearly have no idea what they are really about.
Second: Even Harry Potter can make the moral distinction between using knowledge of "wizardry" for good as opposed to indulging in the "dark arts".
And what has Harry's mentor taught Harry is the one power Harry has over his evil nemesis? Love.
Like all books of "fantasy", the venue only provides the atmosphere and that atmosphere is not the real theme. The real theme is a large morality play, with forces of light competeing against forces of darkness and with moral lessons large and small explored along the way.
The human-divine interaction in which the exposition of moral lessons is explored through human writing did not end with the synod's through which Emperor Constantine mandated that religious orthodoxy be "fixed" for all time.
BTTT
As does my daughter - and I had no problems with the books - but then - she turned me into a newt!
Not so silly. Parts of the Old Testament, particularly the Psalms, make significant use of the Mesopotamian legend of Rahab--the mythological representation of chaos--even praising God for vanquishing the many-headed monster of the waters. The writers of Scripture knew how to use fantasy to illustrate a point.
what is witchcraft as described in the Bible? I believe it is the invoking of spirits, the attempt to control them, to accomplish unnatural things. Whereas the good wizards in Harry Potter do not summon spirits (although ghosts exist - but they are not summoned).
In this fantasy world, magical abilities are natural, not the product of summoned spirits. It is also true that this is a world where God is not mentionnned or thought of , where even people in mortal danger do not pray. Of course to put God in a book of the supernatural would be to use him as a "tame lion."
Mrs VS
Torch. Pitchfork.
You know the drill.
I hope you get better.
I mean that with all honesty people have the freedom to worship as they wish. I mean we can start burning witches again or pressing them with stones, lynching them or what ever is in the demented minds of certain people who pretend to be christian but those people that burned witches hundreds of years ago are burning in hell today. Jesus would never have condoned such activity. You won't to win those people's souls back you need to talk to them as a reasonable person or show them by our actions and deeds that you are a good person. If you think righteous indignation, or preaching hell and damnation works you might find that you turn more people away than you win.
And don't forget, Superman was an illegal alien.
Er... sorry, "undocumented worker."
<g>
The Harry Potter books muddy the waters of this distinction because they depict good as coming from sorcery. Since those powers don't come from God, they can come from only one other source, Satan.
As Christians, there should be no doubt as to where we stand regarding witchcraft.
Gal 5:19 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inheri t the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
Gal 5:24 And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
It's one thing where a fairy tale might have a bit of "magic" dabbled in it. And, where witches are shown in there rightful association with evil. It's quite another thing to create stories where magic is the focus of the story and the powers of that magic are sought by and used by the main protagonist.
Harry Potter will not lead one to practice sorcery any more than smoking a cigarette will cause someone to get cancer. But, I hope for young people to avoid one as much as the other.
It's very positive, and we need to support their interest in literature and the development of imaginative work such as this.
Maybe she can give me some pointers. I keep waving my wooden spoon and yelling "Scourgify.", but I can't get my house to clean itself. :)
Did you read the article? It was not about people becoming witches. It was about whether it is right for Christians to revel in things God has condemned, whether it be witchcraft and sorcery or homosexuality.
Do you feel that those New Testament verses you cited give Christians license to do whatever they please -- even to contradict God?
People find all kinds of ways to justify their sins, and the ways of the world finds cover for all sorts of evil.
People also try to find all sorts of ways to do evil and call it the will of God. I see alot of that in people that burn books.
Then YOU read them !
My daughter LOVES history books. She LOVES biographies. She LOVES Nancy Drew. She LOVES the Toad and the Frog series.
She isn't interested in the occult or anything part of it and we see NO reason to convince her to get involved with it. There are so MANY positive alternatives I think it's a pity that kids need THIS as motivation to read. How sad and what a waste to their time. Plus Harry Potter doesn't fit in with OUR Christian beliefs and we don't look like some 1800 family. Vilifying people against Harry Potter is silly too.
Please return to rational arguments class. "I hate idiots like this" is not a good argument for or against anything. 2 ad hominem arguments and 2 strawman arguments in 4 short paragraphs will result in a bad score. This will be in your permanent record.
What the writer fails to recognize is that magic is a metaphor for the unknown, and nothing more than a vehicle to a good story. To a child everything he sees is magic, because he does not know or understand the physics or reality behind things. Besides magic ceases to be magic once you know how it’s done. What difference does it make if a 16 year old thinks a car is run by an engine or by magic while he is being taught to safely operate it?
Remember in that although Harry Potter may have a few talents, he has to study and practice in order to do the majority of his magic. He has to learn to use the tools of his trade. He wins not because of magic, but because he thinks through a problem and uses the tools he has. These are good values to teach a child.
"And f the kids are playing with the ouija board and tarot cards, at least they are socializing and not taking drugs. </sarc>"
Exactly!
Yeah, we don't have a ouija board or tarrot cards or anything else related to that.
How SAD that occult based book are the ONLY books that motivate SOME kids to read. THAT tells me allot about the kids and the PARENTS that NEED Harry Potter books to get them to READ.
As for us, we want nothing to do with Harry Potter.
Can't you acknowledge the reality of what keats5 is saying without creating a ridiculous strawman argument?
If you think righteous indignation, or preaching hell and damnation works you might find that you turn more people away than you win.
Can't you do any better than that? keats5 said nothing about "hell and damnation" in that post.
But, if you're a Christian, you would do well to know what Jesus Himself said about it.
Mat 13:36 Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Mat 13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.
As you say, "...you turn more people away than you win." Many people turned away from Jesus, many people continue to turn away from Him today. But, for those who have ears, let them hear.
We don't' want anything to do with Harry Potter. What I don't understand is WHY people attack ME for not going along with the occult crowd. By all means have your kids live eat and breathe Harry Potter. We have found other books that capture our interest and more importantly our daughters interest that MOTIVATE her to read. Harry Potter is NOT something she is interested in.
""Bewitched = evil?" Come now. Bad television maybe, but evil?"
I said nothing about "Bewitched". Absolutely nothing. I can also think of other shows to watch T.V. than "Bewitched". Okay make fun of me for that. I really don't care. We want nothing to do with Harry Potter and that is what THIS thread is about. I know, you need to have the last word ... make sure it's something that attempts to belittle me or drag in something like the Adams Family which is also NOT comparable to validate your enjpyment of Harry Potter.
Perhaps it's time that YOU were alittle tolerant of OTHERS.
I am sorry Mrs. VS, although I have not read a Harry Potter book, I have seen all of the movies. In the movies, these young characters are so familiar with these spirits (ghosts), they don't need to invoke spells to conjure them. The spirits come when the children call upon them.
There really is no defense of their sorcery or witchcraft contained in the Bible.
"What I do become uncomfortable with, is when some parents act as if their particular choice is morally superior to the choice of other parents...we all parent as we see fit to be in the best interest of our children...some folks believe that the Harry Potter books would be harmful to their children, others see the Harry Potter books as pure non-harmful fantasy for their children...to me, neither side is morally superior or better...its a difference of opinion among parents... "
I dare say that history and biographies such as Helen Keller, Braile, Abe Lincoln, Ben Franklin, Christ and Bible stories, ready for this -
ARE MORALLY SUPERIOR TO HARRY POTTER!
Not only are these stories MORALLY SUPERIOR but they offer GOOD examples of people and someone to look up to.
You fill a mind with garbage and it's the same old story:
GIGO is as true as ever!
Somebody had way too much time on their hands.
Better yet, post a picture of yourself so we can all have a good laugh.
I'm sorry Barnacle. I should have been more thorough in my reading.
Wow. Your kid has more insight, common sense, and intelligence in his little finger than half the people posting to Harry Potter threads. I'm going to try to remember that story.
"Descriptively speaking, split infinitives are common in all varieties of informal English; however, their status as part of the standard language is controversial. In the 19th century, some grammatical authorities sought to introduce a prescriptive rule that split infinitives should not be used in English. Most authorities from the last 100 years, however, agree that this rule was misguided, and indeed that splitting an infinitive can sometimes reduce ambiguity."
According to Wikipedia sometimes to boldly split an infinitive may be a good thing ( : 0 )
So if you don't want people to burn the books or burn the people that are reading the books what do you people want? I mean do you want to ban the book because you in your righteous indignation you can't stand to have a book that competes against God?
What your afraid of and what you are saying in these posts is that God can't compete with harry potter. That God in a competition of ideas is actually less powerful than the idea of Magic. What you are saying is you are so afraid that the word of God can't weather a fantasy book written by a pretty unoffensive woman living in England than the word of God must not be worth much. I think you underestimate the word of God and you underestimate the knowledge of children and the ability of people to separate fantasy from reality, maybe because you yourself have a problem separating the two.
If the love of God can't overcome the hate some of you supposed Christians harbor for people that don't think the exact way you do, what is it worth of that love? Your not preaching the word of God what you are doing is using the word of God to justify your own hate and that is not of God.
"Strawman" is such an overused term you sound like a liberal and rightwing Christians that want to ban ideas like this are straight out of the 16th century, and sound not that much different than their Islamic counterparts that come right out of the 7th century. Both a bloodthirsty and intolerant lot. Go back under your rock and worship your god that can't compete with a fantasy novel. I'll take the God that is accepting and loving any day over the fire and brimstone Monster you believe in and that has so poisoned the well of Christianity.
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