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Man shot dead by police in London may have been Brazilian
BBC News ^ | 7/23/05

Posted on 07/23/2005 1:32:06 PM PDT by areafiftyone

A man shot dead by police in London was not connected to Thursday's attacks and may have been Brazilian. More Soon...


TOPICS: Extended News; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: darwinaward; dontactliketerrorist; donthavebrownskin; dontrunfrompolice; londonattacked
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1 posted on 07/23/2005 1:32:06 PM PDT by areafiftyone
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To: All
Shot man not connected to bombing

A man shot dead by police hunting the bombers behind Thursday's London attacks was unconnected to the incidents, police have confirmed.

The man - thought to be Brazilian - died at Stockwell Tube in an incident Scotland Yard described as a "tragedy".

Two other men have been arrested and are being questioned after bombers targeted three Tube trains and a bus.

A suspect package found on Saturday in north-west London may be linked to Thursday's attacks, police believe.

The package was found by a member of the public in bushes in Little Wormwood Scrubs on Saturday morning.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "Explosives officers attended the scene. An initial examination suggests that the object may be linked to devices found at four locations in London on July 21."

Police said it would be subject to "detailed forensic analysis".

Police have also raided a house in Streatham Hill, south London, in connection with the failed attacks.

'Horrendous consequences'

Brazilian diplomats in London said they had been told by police that the man who was shot dead by police on Friday was a Brazilian.

An earlier Scotland Yard statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

The statement confirmed the man had been followed by police from a house in Tulse Hill that was under surveillance.

His death is being investigated by officers from the MPS Directorate of Professional Standards, and will be referred to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

John O'Connor, former commander of the Met Police, told the BBC the consequences of the shooting were likely to be "quite horrendous".

He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons.

But Shami Chakrabarti, director of human rights group Liberty, said it was too early to judge what the effects would be.

She called for a "prompt, comprehensive and independent investigation".

Arrests

Police announced on Saturday evening they have raided another property in south London.

Residents of the street in Streatham Hill, near Brixton, told how armed police ordered them to stay in their homes while they cordoned off the area.

There do not appear to have been any arrests.

Police arrested one man after a raid on a block of flats in Stockwell

Two men are still being held at Paddington Green police station, central London, in connection with Thursday's attacks.

The first man was arrested at around 1630 BST on Friday during a raid on a block of flats near to Oval and Stockwell Tube stations.

Eyewitnesses said he was led away with a woman and child.

The second man was arrested late on Friday night, also in the Stockwell area.

Both are being held under anti-terrorism legislation which gives police 14 days before they have to bring charges.

Scotland Yard said they had been contacted by over 500 members of the public following the release of CCTV footage of four suspects.

Detectives said they were hopeful of useful lines of inquiry coming from the calls and e-mails.

Three devices found after the failed bombings were the same size and weight as those used in the suicide attacks of 7 July, which killed scores.

The fourth was smaller, apparently contained in a plastic box. The same chemicals appear to have been used.

They targeted Oval, Warren Street and Shepherd's Bush stations and a bus in Hackney.

The Hammersmith and City line train was removed from Shepherd's Bush station on Saturday afternoon.

Transport for London said it hoped to have trains running on the line from Paddington to Hammersmith on Saturday evening

2 posted on 07/23/2005 1:36:06 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: areafiftyone

?...The British police got the right man at the wrong time?


3 posted on 07/23/2005 1:36:47 PM PDT by maestro
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To: maestro

Turns out this guy they shot was the wrong guy and innocent. But the guy they arrested was the right one. Confusing.


4 posted on 07/23/2005 1:37:42 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: maestro
..... The statement confirmed the man had been followed by police from a house in Tulse Hill that was under surveillance. .....

/OFF.....MS-13

5 posted on 07/23/2005 1:40:04 PM PDT by maestro
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To: areafiftyone

Damn! I thought all the Brazilians were here in Massachusetts.


6 posted on 07/23/2005 1:40:10 PM PDT by Mears (Keep the government out of my face!)
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To: maestro; Chieftain

No, I think it was the wrong man at the right time.

Why the heck was this guy fleeing the police in the way that he did? there is still something very fishy about this Brazilian story?

Oh, my God! I know! He was the "BRAZILIAN RUNAWAY GROOM!"


7 posted on 07/23/2005 1:41:12 PM PDT by Recovering Ex-hippie (Everything I need to know about Islam I learned on 9-11!)
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To: areafiftyone
Where does it say why they shot the Brazilian? What was the motivation? Did the Brazilian do something suspicious, was it a language problem, what?

27yo Brazilian National going to work as an electrician, according to Fox News right now.

8 posted on 07/23/2005 1:41:45 PM PDT by Lady Jag (Honor - Dignity - Courage - Loyalty)
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To: areafiftyone
This is the worst possible turn of events. Now the British will look inward to see how they have failed. The cops will be the bad guys. The terrorists will be the ones wrongfully pursued.

Cops will be more cautious. Becoming even more PC will be the outcome.

9 posted on 07/23/2005 1:42:16 PM PDT by Dog Gone
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To: areafiftyone
Typical BBC -- where's their continuity? They reported SY had been tracking suspect all morning -- exits apartment, gets on a bus, gets off near a station, then enters the station and hops the barriers in an act of fare-jumping with 4 or 5 LEOs in full chase. Something's not right with either one of their stories.
10 posted on 07/23/2005 1:42:36 PM PDT by StAnDeliver
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To: Mears
Damn! I thought all the Brazilians were here in Massachusetts.

Nah, there's tons of them at Disney World.

11 posted on 07/23/2005 1:42:43 PM PDT by Lady Jag (Honor - Dignity - Courage - Loyalty)
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To: areafiftyone
....Turns out this guy they shot was the wrong guy and innocent. But the guy they arrested was the right one. Confusing. ....

Confusing.....'operation'.....sounds 'normal' to me!

it's called. 'Black on Black!~'

12 posted on 07/23/2005 1:42:49 PM PDT by maestro
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

Well maybe he was an illegal alien and didn't want to get caught and deported. Just a guess.


13 posted on 07/23/2005 1:42:55 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: Lady Jag

More details are supposed to come out. But if they notified the Brazilian government and offered and apology and are having an investigation - this does not look good for them.


14 posted on 07/23/2005 1:44:24 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: areafiftyone

He's still a "Darwin Award" candidate for running from the cops.


15 posted on 07/23/2005 1:44:45 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: All

I'm going to look for more info from another site since this is the BBC and they are the PC site.


16 posted on 07/23/2005 1:45:30 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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Comment #17 Removed by Moderator

To: areafiftyone
This is similar to the Diallo killing here in NYC, where an (illegal) African immigrant ran from cops, refused to stop, refused to id himself, and made a sudden gesture which triggred a volley of shots from the police, who had been looking for a rape suspect whose description Diallo fit.

Apparently in thirdworldland you're taught to run from cops, and not obey orders to halt. A case where cultural "diversity" is deadly.

18 posted on 07/23/2005 1:46:31 PM PDT by NativeNewYorker (Don't blame me. I voted for Sharpton.)
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To: areafiftyone
He said he expected officers to face criminal charges, and other officers could even refuse to carry weapons.

If either of these things happens, then that will be the no-turning-back point for Britain. You might as well just put giant "BOMB US PLEASE!" signs at every entrance to the country.

The only lesson to be learned here is "Don't run away as fast as you can when the police tell you to stop."

19 posted on 07/23/2005 1:46:33 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (John Bolton for White House Press Secretary!)
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To: areafiftyone
He ran from the police during a very dangerous time. Darwin's Theorem in progress. The police called for him to stop and threatened him with deadly force before they shot him. Kudos to the London Police.
20 posted on 07/23/2005 1:46:37 PM PDT by vetvetdoug (Shiloh, Corinth, Iuka, Brices Crossroads, Harrisburg, Britton Lane, Holly Springs, Hatchie Bridge,)
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To: areafiftyone
.....maybe,...he was ANOTHER U.N. 'inspector-advisor' to British Intell,....and got killed in the 'woods'....??

...stay outta Dallas stuff?

21 posted on 07/23/2005 1:46:58 PM PDT by maestro
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To: areafiftyone
I think the police did the right thing and should receive medals for their valor. Besides, how the hell are they supposed to determine this wacko's nationality and/or intent in a time of such high-stress and urgency? Didn't many of the witnesses say that they believed he appeared to be of Paki/Indo descent? Screw the PC bullsh!t. Keep shooting until you get the right one, boys.
22 posted on 07/23/2005 1:47:29 PM PDT by Now_is_The_Time (They hate us because we're better.)
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To: areafiftyone

He was a Brazilian?!! I guess there are someday's you just wished you stayed home!


23 posted on 07/23/2005 1:47:57 PM PDT by 26lemoncharlie ('Cuntas haereses tu sola interemisti in universo mundo!')
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To: All
MORE FROM SKY NEWS HIS NAME WAS Joao Alves Menezes:

NO BOMB LINKS TO SHOOTING

The man shot dead by undercover police at Stockwell Tube station was not connected to the investigation into the attempted terror attacks.

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

The fatal shooting happened when armed officers shot a man, Joao Alves Menezes, as he tried to board a train at the underground station.

He had emerged from a nearby house that was under surveillance because of a suspected link to Thursday's attempted bomb attacks on three Tube trains and a bus.

The man, whose name has not yet been released, was then followed by surveillance officers.

He is thought to have caught a bus to Stockwell Tube station where he was challenged by officers, who told him to stop.

The man, who is believed to be from Brazil, then bolted down an escalator, according to witnesses.

He apparently tried to get on a train before he was, according to witnesses, shot five times in the head by an officer with an automatic pistol. mo< Earlier Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair said the dead man was "directly linked" to anti-terror operations.

The Independent Police Complaints Commission is investigating Friday's fatal shooting.

24 posted on 07/23/2005 1:48:38 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: 26lemoncharlie

Yes see my post below. His name is in the Sky News post.


25 posted on 07/23/2005 1:49:10 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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Comment #26 Removed by Moderator

To: StAnDeliver
Typical BBC -- where's their continuity? Over there in the trash, right under their ethics.

(Perhaps I should say "Over there in the bin"?)

27 posted on 07/23/2005 1:50:13 PM PDT by Dont Mention the War (John Bolton for White House Press Secretary!)
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To: mitchflorida2

What's Portuguese for "collateral damage?"


28 posted on 07/23/2005 1:51:04 PM PDT by ReadyNow
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Comment #29 Removed by Moderator

To: mitchflorida2

How would I feel?

I would feel like STOPPING! Thus, showing the police know I wasn't hiding anything. Duh!


30 posted on 07/23/2005 1:52:59 PM PDT by i_dont_chat
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To: Now_is_The_Time

"Keep shooting until you get the right one, boys."

Yeah, we ought to be shooting any innocent bystander with brown skin. Give me a break!


31 posted on 07/23/2005 1:53:14 PM PDT by nj26
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To: Mears
Damn! I thought all the Brazilians were here in Massachusetts.

Maybe he had been. That would explain the heavy coat.

32 posted on 07/23/2005 1:53:19 PM PDT by Pearls Before Swine
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To: areafiftyone

definately,.....'B on B'.....stuff,,,,


33 posted on 07/23/2005 1:53:36 PM PDT by maestro
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To: Lady Jag

Apparently they shot him when he tripped and fell and was on the ground. Maybe they thought when he tried to get up he was going to set off his explosives (which he apparently didn't have).


34 posted on 07/23/2005 1:53:50 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: Recovering Ex-hippie

"The police identified themselves I believe. If he was an illegal alien, so sorry."

Before you condone murder, maybe you should wait until the facts are revealed.

I'm all for a tough approach to terrorism, but the comments on this thread are unbelievable.


35 posted on 07/23/2005 1:54:16 PM PDT by nj26
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To: dfwgator
He's still a "Darwin Award" candidate for running from the cops.

What are you twelve and in macho fantasyland?

Police officers don't excute people for running.

36 posted on 07/23/2005 1:55:12 PM PDT by D.P.Roberts
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To: mitchflorida2

"Pakistani or Brazilians, same damn thing. kill first ask questions later"

Are you trying to give a bad name to all conservatives?


37 posted on 07/23/2005 1:55:58 PM PDT by nj26
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To: dfwgator
He's still a "Darwin Award" candidate for running from the cops.

How did HE know they were cops if:

1) they were in plain clothes

2) They were shouting at him in a language he may not have understood. He probably thought a band of thieves was after him.

3)Regarding the coat--it's winter in Brazil, is it not?

38 posted on 07/23/2005 1:56:17 PM PDT by madison10
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To: areafiftyone; yarddog

My heart fairly bleeds.


39 posted on 07/23/2005 1:56:35 PM PDT by John Filson
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To: D.P.Roberts

Police officers don't excute people for running.
......'bingo'...


40 posted on 07/23/2005 1:57:34 PM PDT by maestro
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To: areafiftyone
Was this the individual who was told to stop by the police and then ran?

Unless the headlines read: "Deaf Brasilian...", I am unmoved.

They are a capable and intelligent people. They can listen to commands and stop running as well as anyone.

My verdict: "Suicide by cop".

41 posted on 07/23/2005 1:57:44 PM PDT by Caipirabob (Democrats.. Socialists..Commies..Traitors...Who can tell the difference?)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: madison10

I agree. I think he might have been illegal and maybe not sure when they started yelling at him and he ran.


43 posted on 07/23/2005 1:58:12 PM PDT by areafiftyone (Politicians Are Like Diapers, Both Need To Be Changed Often And For The Same Reason!)
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To: All

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4711021.stm

Last Updated: Saturday, 23 July, 2005, 20:31 GMT 21:31 UK

"Shot man not connected to bombing"

ARTICLE SNIPPET: "Brazilian diplomats in London said they had been told by police that the man who was shot dead by police on Friday was a Brazilian.

An earlier Scotland Yard statement read: "We believe we now know the identity of the man shot at Stockwell Underground station by police on Friday 22nd July 2005, although he is still subject to formal identification.

"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents of Thursday 21st July 2005.

"For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets."

The statement confirmed the man had been followed by police from a house in Tulse Hill that was under surveillance."
===
===

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,163449,00.html

"Man Killed by Police Had No Connection to London Attacks"
Saturday, July 23, 2005
AP


ARTICLE SNIPPET: ""For somebody to lose their life in such circumstances is a tragedy and one that the Metropolitan Police Service regrets," a police spokesman said on customary condition of anonymity.

The man, whose identity has not been released, was shot Friday at a subway station in the south London neighborhood of Stockwell (search). Witnesses said the man appeared to be South Asian and was wearing a heavy padded coat when police chased him into a subway car, pinned him to the ground and shot him in the head and torso.

A spokesman for Scotland Yard (search) said on customary condition of anonymity that the man was unconnected to the incidents of Thursday, in which bombs placed on three subway cars and a double-decker bus failed to detonate properly.

The spokesman also said the man was "probably unconnected" to the July 7 subway and bus bombings that killed 56 people, including four attackers.

However, Scotland Yard would not rule out that the man was not connected to any terrorist actions."


44 posted on 07/23/2005 1:59:09 PM PDT by Cindy
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To: Caipirabob

"Unless the headlines read: "Deaf Brasilian...", I am unmoved. They are a capable and intelligent people. They can listen to commands and stop running as well as anyone."

If they were uniformed police that clearly identified themselves, then I have less sympathy. But I don't think that the press accounts have established this to be true. Until then, I wish many would stop laughing at this very sad death.


45 posted on 07/23/2005 1:59:19 PM PDT by nj26
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To: areafiftyone
Part of a post from another thread:
...it's the responsibility of somebody who wishes to remain alive that he apprise himself of the circumstances in his immediate vicinity that might make his wish difficult to fulfill. If the man was a Brazilian who didn't speak English and wasn't aware of the news and wasn't able to recognize British policeman and didn't know better than to run when being ordered to stop on the day after terrorist attacks, then his death was very much his own fault. To suppose otherwise is to suppose that it's the responsibility of everybody else to insure the continued existence of the terminally stupid.

46 posted on 07/23/2005 1:59:19 PM PDT by snarks_when_bored
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To: mitchflorida2
"How would you react if some thugs in plain clothes started running after you for no seeming reason?"

He might have been an electrician, but he certainly wasn't the brightest bulb on the block. It's not like he didn't know there had been terrorist attacks on the subways and that the police would be watching that area. So why in God's name did he pick the subway to flee into? And then to jump the turnstile? Totally stupid! I'm sure the police pursing him identified themselves as police more than once. Wouldn't he have been required to speak some English in order to have gotten a job as an electrician in an English-speaking city?

47 posted on 07/23/2005 1:59:49 PM PDT by mass55th (Courage is being scared to death - but saddling up anyway~~John Wayne)
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To: areafiftyone
So?
Stupidity knows no nationality.

What's your point?

48 posted on 07/23/2005 2:00:00 PM PDT by Publius6961 (Liberal level playing field: If the Islamics win we are their slaves..if we win they are our equals.)
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To: Caipirabob

Sigh. If the guy is Brazilian & ONLY speaks the Portuguese language, how would he know if the plain clothes band o' merry men chasing him weren't thieves? The police would have to shout in 5-10 languages to hit on Portuguese.


49 posted on 07/23/2005 2:00:00 PM PDT by madison10
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To: Caipirabob

No doubt. Even if he didn't understand the language, a cop hollering at him should have prompted him to stop, not run for the subway and jump a turnstile.


50 posted on 07/23/2005 2:00:01 PM PDT by Excuse_My_Bellicosity ("A litany of complaints is not a plan." -- G.W. Bush, regarding Sen. Kerry's lack of vision)
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