Man shot dead by police in London may have been Brazilian

BBC News ^ | 7/23/05

[Paige]

Sure he did.

[notigar]

As you stated, these are heightened awareness times. I would have prefered they acted much sooner. Evidence of leaving a watched apartment complex with a big coat, if true, would have led me to question him the minute he was out of sight of the place so as not to compromise the investigation. In any event, I would have made it physically impossible for him to take mass transit. I'm not willing to let anyone die, which is why I would have taken those steps. And yes, I agree they have to make snap decisions without all the information. But that is why you try to keep those situations to a minimum. Why wait till the only two alternatives are: (1) him stopping for a guy in plainclothes or (2) killing him? Would they have had to shoot him on the street, if they surrounded him? Wouldn't the public have been better protected? He rode a bus to the subway! If he was a suspect, those cops should be suspended for letting him do that! How does the story play out when all the facts are the same, he gets on a bus, and blows himself up? You'd be calling them incompetent.

[stopsign]

"Passengers on a train waiting at Stockwell station had described how they were ordered to get down as armed plain-clothes officers pushed a man through the open doors of their carriage and on to the floor. Eyewitness Mark Whitby described scenes of "absolute mayhem" inside the station as the officers held the man down before one of them "unloaded five shots into him". " (Scotsman.com News)

Here is what I have got from news papers, TV, and as I have read on this and other threads...

1. The apartments where he lived was being watched.( His apt.? Was he a suspect?)

2. He left with a heavy jacket on. ( It was in the low 60's when he left, with the chance of rain)

3. He was followed onto a bus.( If they thought he might have a bomb on him, WHY was he allowed to board the bus!?)

4. He goes into the Stockwell station, jumps ticket barrier.( Was he late?)

5. He runs down escalator. (Chased by three {Armed}plain-closed policemen, Did he know they were chasing him at that time?).

6. As he is running on the northern line platform toward the train, The under cover cops are yelling for him to "STOP! POLICE!"(Could he hear in a crowded station, as he was ahead of them running trying to catch his train?)

7. As he gets to the train he slips in the door way, Cops push him down into the train car where he was held down and shot five times in the head...

Well I wish that the reporters would interview and televise some more people on this, (I'd rather hear from some of our FR people who witnessed this, I would trust them much more)I just don't believe we have been told all the facts... : ) <<< me

[notigar]

The whole thing stinks. I think this is all coming here, "to a theater new you." We'll see how people take to plainclothes shooters.

[garbanzo]

Evidence of leaving a watched apartment complex with a big coat, if true, would have led me to question him the minute he was out of sight of the place so as not to compromise the investigation.

No it would have led you to question him in hindsight. Post facto judgements are meaningless. At the time of the incident, he was being surveilled, probably to see where he was going and who he was going to see. In other words the police had no idea what he was up to when he left the apartment and got on the bus. It was only after he began to behave strangely near the subway that the police moved and he ran. In other words the police did more less what you wanted them to do but since the result was bad the intention had to be bad as well in your eyes.

[garbanzo]

We'll see how people take to plainclothes shooters

Probably better than suicide bombers.

[notigar]

They shot him because they thought he had a bomb (their story). Did they start thinking that because he ran? If so, why don't they just have a bunch of guys in plainclothes with guns announce they are cops, and everyone has to freeze? See who runs. They have a bomb. If it is more than just the fact that he ran, they should have stopped him earlier. Why even give him the chance to run? That is their error (along with shooting an innocent man). And that is what cannot be explained away by the "heat of the moment." I appreciate your views, and have not meant to belabor the point as much as this. And of course suicide bombers are terrible. We hold Government employees with guns to a different standard, and have to.

[Senator Goldwater]

Sometimes you gotta realize where you are.

Exactly.

Had this guy gone on the train and blown it to smithereens, Scotland Yard would be under fire for failing to stop him.

Perhaps this will deter further misunderstandings between heavily-attired Londoners and those who are there to protect them.

[garbanzo]

We hold Government employees with guns to a different standard, and have to.

Fine, as long as you're willing to accept that people will be killed because of your idealism.

[notigar]

People have been killed for our idealism for centuries. Ever heard of "reasonable doubt"? Not a standard held by most countries. It costs lives.

The first (lone) suicide bomber we have in this country, about a little less than half will be willing to give everything up for security. I won't blame them, but I will resist.

[notigar]

How about, if he got on the bus that they let him get on, and it blew up? They f*d up, it a lot of different ways. Not the least of which was putting 5 bullets in an innocent man's back.

[LifeOrGoods?]

Plenty of people have outran guns. And have you ever heard of someone in plainclothes lying about being a cop?

You are correct on both points here. To be honest, I'm not too hot on plainclothes police. I think a policeman should be in uniform, period.

[rbmillerjr]

"Not the least of which was putting 5 bullets in an innocent man's back."

...yes and if he would have blown up the underground train, the useful idiots would have said the police were negligent for not shooting him prior to setting off the explosive belt underneath is coat he work in the summer.

...better yet, whey was he not detained outside of the apartment complex...oh yeah, he ran.