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"South Pacific" Lesson about Muslims
Special to FreeRepubloic ^ | 6 August 2005 | John Armor (Congressman Billybob)

Posted on 07/24/2005 1:27:52 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob

You’d probably think there’s no connection between the Rodgers and Hammerstein musical, “South Pacific” in 1949 and the murdering Muslims of the 21st century. If you thought that, you’d be wrong. That musical explains these events.

The most obscure song from that musical is, “You’ve Got to be Carefully Taught.” It’s low popularity is probably due to its dark subject, the injection of prejudice into the minds of children.

Here are two of its verses, which make the point:

You've got to be taught to hate and fear
You've got to be taught from year to year
It's got to be drummed in your dear little ear
You've got to be carefully taught.

You've got to be taught before it's too late
Before you are six or seven or eight
To hate all the people your relatives hate
You've got to be carefully taught

I’ve read translations of lessons taught in Islamic schools in Pakistan, England, Indonesia, North Korea, the Palestinian Authority, and in many of the United Nations refugee camps around the world. Children are taught that Jews especially, but infidels in general, are subhuman at worst, expendable lesser humans at most. They are taught it is their “moral” duty to dominate such other people, and to kill them as necessary.

Is this the first time in human history that adults deliberately chose to pour intellectual poison into young minds, year after year, and generation after generation? The Hitler Youth and the Nazi schools taught such hatred, but they survived only one generation. The Young Communist League and the Soviet schools lasted for three generations. Miraculously, when the Soviet Union fell, most citizens somehow had learned the opposite of the prejudices they’d been taught.

For those who want to see pictures of this process, evidence of the success of teaching young children to become suicidal murderers, just Google images for “children” and “bombers.” You will see your choice of dozens of demonstration where adults and parents have dressed children in make-believe suicide belts. The children are showing off their “toys” with pleasure. This is visual evidence of what is going on in the schools. You can also find translated quotations from the schools and the mosques, if you work at it.

So, when you read superficial comments from so-called experts about the “root causes” of the suicide bombers, you will know that most of what you read is false. The 3,000 murders in the US on 9/11 were not caused by the invasion of Iraq, because we didn’t invade Iraq until after that date. But neither were the bombings in England this month caused by the invasion of Iraq.

The terrorists have a steady pool of young men, and some women, who’ve been taught all their lives that murdering other human beings and committing suicide are morally good acts. They have been carefully taught.

An Associated Press article filed from England on 16 July, demonstrates this fact. "You could see how it could turn someone to raw hate," said Ali, recalling his brush last year with the hard-edged marketing of extremism at an Islamic bookstore operated by his brother-in-law. "It even started working on me. Then I said to myself, `Get out. This stuff is poison.'"

The problem is growing. When Pakistan became independent in 1947 it had only 137 madrassahs. Government sources put today's figure at 13,000, with enrolment close to 1.7 million.

Those vicious lessons have been reinforced in these young people by supposed moral leaders in their sermons, preaching the same doctrine to adults. There is a vast gulf between what representatives of some Islamic nations say in English to the US diplomats and to us on TV, and what they say to themselves in their institutions that breed bigotry and murder.

This is the major reasons the low-grade World War IV, which we’re now in, will not tail off and end for up to a generation. Until all of these nations are persuaded by common sense, or force, to shut down their factories for producing murderers, the source of new murderers will remain. And it will also remain in some respects for up to thirty years after the factories close because those minds are already poisoned.

Leadership in those nations can play a decisive, positive role, like the Emperor of Japan did after World War II. He told his people they had a moral duty to cease fighting and to acquiesce to the changes under General MacArthur. But leadership like that is too much to ask. Merely shutting down the murder factories will, in time, be enough.

About the Author: John Armor is a First Amendment attorney and author who lives in the Blue Ridge Mountains of North Carolina. John_Armor@aya.yale.edu


TOPICS: Your Opinion/Questions
KEYWORDS: communistleague; dhimmi; england; hammerstein; hitleryouth; indonesia; iraq; madrassahs; murderfactories; muslims; nazis; northkorea; pakistan; palestinians; pharisee; poison; prejudice; rodgers; southpacitic; sovietunion; suicidebelts; unitednations; worldwariv
This is way early. But the subject is obviously important. So I file it early.

John / Billybob

1 posted on 07/24/2005 1:27:55 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob
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To: Congressman Billybob
Excellent analysis.

How long did we hate the Germans after WWII? My mother, of German ancestry, married my father, of English ancestry, in 1953. My mother wasn't accepted into my father's family for at least 10 years.

2 posted on 07/24/2005 1:39:44 PM PDT by AZLiberty (French: The language of diplomacy, except for the French)
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To: AZLiberty

That might have more to do with then-prevailing Anglo-American prejudices than overall American sentiments. They weren't very friendly to the Irish either.


3 posted on 07/24/2005 2:02:44 PM PDT by jjmcgo
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To: Congressman Billybob

Another home run John. Thanks!


4 posted on 07/24/2005 2:04:02 PM PDT by upchuck ("If our nation be destroyed, it would be from the judiciary." ~ Thomas Jefferson)
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To: Congressman Billybob
South Pacific came out during the great post-WWII awakening of awareness, among the elites of American culture, that American blacks were not getting anything like a fair shake. The song you reference was, I believe, aimed at middle America, in hopes of bringing this awareness to a wider audience. In South Pacific there is a romance between an American soldier and a native (island) girl; I believe this song arises from that plot line.

As an aside, may I say that this subject has long been of interest to me. If I knew how to pitch such a project, I would love to do a PBS-type documentary covering all the ways in which the elites of Hollywood and New York incorporated subtle (and not so subtle) plot devices into the entertainments of that time to promote the an anti-prejudice and pro-civil-rights message. Part of this dynamic was purely commercial; there is no doubt that music arising from African-America culture was very popular among teenagers and young adults of the post-WWII generation; this gave rise to the whole Rock-and-Roll phenomonon (nothing novel about that insight, I know).

Anyway, even with that, I think one of the things that made the shows of Rogers and Hammerstein so timeless was that they expressed fundamental truths of human nature. The song you reference is one example of that.

(steely)

5 posted on 07/24/2005 2:11:37 PM PDT by Steely Tom (Fortunately, the Bill of Rights doesn't include the word 'is'.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

A glaring contrast between the Nazi and USSR regimes cited and the madrasses generating the terrorist recruits: during the darkest days of Hitler or the Soviets there were brave parents willing to pass on in secret to their children the truth those children would never see in a public school or library. At literal risk of their lives a resistance was kept alive against the day they might effectively rise up.

We keep being told the terrorists are a tiny minority within this "religion of peace", but even in countries where the right to speak is protected, public protest of the militant voice of Islam is rare from the Islamic community and its leaders.

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I will call the "religion of peace" cover a sham, an ineffective non-entity. This alledgedly tiny minority of terorism cannot operate without support, safe haven and at least silence, if not overt cover from a much wider spectrum of the religion of peace.

They will like us when we win! We will not win soon or easily, but we absolutely must. They will not accept surrender. We can come home tomorrow and put Saddam back on his throne and it will only encourage these barbarians. Their goal is the utter destruction of the West, nothing less wil do. Count me in with Cal Thomas, I want to kill them before they kill me.


6 posted on 07/24/2005 2:39:54 PM PDT by barkeep
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To: Congressman Billybob; bayourod
Thanks for the good analysis.

Here is a post from two days ago that quotes Islamic Cleric Bakri as saying, "I would like to see the Islamic flag fly, not only over number 10 Downing Street, but over the whole world,".

It always amazes me how "moderate" Muslims do not kick these radical Imams out of their Mosque. May be "moderate" Muslims aren't that "moderate"?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1448379/posts
7 posted on 07/24/2005 2:46:43 PM PDT by Chgogal (Congressmen who willfully...during war...damage moral...should be arrested, exiled or..." Lincoln)
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To: Congressman Billybob; bayourod
"The problem is growing. When Pakistan became independent in 1947 it had only 137 madrassahs. Government sources put today's figure at 13,000, with enrolment close to 1.7 million."

Do we know (1) who financed these madrassahs, (2) what percentage is radical and (3) how many students have attended or are attending?
8 posted on 07/24/2005 2:49:34 PM PDT by Chgogal (Congressmen who willfully...during war...damage moral...should be arrested, exiled or..." Lincoln)
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To: Chgogal
"Do we know (1) who financed these madrassahs, (2) what percentage is radical and (3) how many students have attended or are attending? "

I suspect the CIA does. But either way, does that justify killing innocent women and children in cities thoughout the Middle East just because they have historical religious sites?

9 posted on 07/24/2005 3:13:40 PM PDT by bayourod (Cowards taunt terrorists from anonymous keyboards while soldiers in Iraq face the consequences.)
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To: Steely Tom
Oddly enough, there are two objectionable romances. The Lt. (whose name escapes me at the moment) with Liat and Nellie with the French widower father of two half-Polynesian children.

Interestingly, Nellie is able to overcome her problem and goes back for Emile, because after all, he's a Frechman and that's okay (at least, it was then). The Lt. falls in love with Liat and cannot live without her and winds up not living with her, either. A point is a point and the point was made, but money is money and R&H knew their audience. Having a US Naval officer marry a Polynesian would not have gone over with American audiences at the time. (Fooling around with her, sure, all the GIs were doing it, weren't they?)

TS
(that last line was a joke)

10 posted on 07/24/2005 3:22:17 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (When you're ready to have a mature discussion about the Green Lantern, you have my email address.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
Great writing, Congressman, and a thought provoking piece. Here's my thought - and fortunately, unlike you, I'm not restricted to 750 words...

Merely shutting down the murder factories will, in time, be enough.

As 9/11 or London (or Madrid, or Sharm el-Sheik for that matter) didn't originate from our late invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Saddam, neither did it originate with the formation of the nation of Israel. The bloody origins go back a lot further than the Madrassahs phenomenon, of course. They go back to the Prophet Mohammad himself, his examples and teachings, and those adherents who immediately followed him which all set the bloody pattern for Islam. In other words, the cancer dates back over 1300 years and has never been successfully exorcised despite whatever has been tried against it.

So, the primary malignancy is Islam itself, which has proved itself quite capable of mountains of atrocities piled upon atrocities over the centuries - not dependent on any particular set of individual actors or political situations.

I doubt the long term situation will change by closing down the "murder factories" (as indeed they are, and their closing down will be a vast, if temporary, improvement). The lasting change can only come when these people have a complete change of heart, not a costume change of Islamic clothes for other Islamic garments.

Quite frankly, I think Christianity is the only power capable of doing that job effectively to the deep extent required. After all, one is not here addressing a mere nation state, emperor, race, ethnicity or even Axis of Evil. What is involved at bottom is a seamless and millenium-long world-view of immense culture and societal power which has permanently changed vast regions of the globe and completely erased previously thriving cultures.

To expand the theme further, this is a spiritual as well as a temporal war - perhaps primarily spiritual. Therefore, the cure must also be spiritual (to loosely quote Douglas MacArthur). The Japanese Empire, Nazi Germany and even the Soviet Union were regional, late-blooming pikers compared to Islam.

We can aid the necessary change by promoting personal, civil and religious freedoms within these miserable, bound countries - such as we are attempting to do in Iraq and Afghanistan. But we cannot force it to happen. It goes down deep to the very core cultural and theological beliefs of large societies and individuals who comprise in excess of a quarter of the world's population. This is not something simply grafted or veneered on top of a single society. But the cosmic change will not happen if Islam is left alone on it's own to fester along in it's own malignant soup of theology, precedent and Sharia Law - even without the "murder factories". As you indicate, it will require strong temporal support on our part and it is not a quick fix. It will not be done alone with armies.

In the end, IMHO, only the intercession of the Holy Spirit in uncounted legions of lives of current Muslims and their offspring will make the necessary change to make it work and deliver us all from the scourge of this horror. That is ultimately beyond our immediate control, but not beyond our hopes and prayers aided by our long-term intelligent temporal actions.

It will take a lot more years than you and I have, Congressman, and certainly more power and wisdom than can be packed into 750 words. ;>)

11 posted on 07/24/2005 3:54:36 PM PDT by Gritty ("A reformed Islam is an oxymoron, because Islam cannot reform and still remain Islam" - Jamie Glazov)
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To: Congressman Billybob

The problem with the lyrics is that they are just not true. I think people have a natural tendency to dislike and even hate groups of people who are noticeably different, especially when they have had bad experiences with members of those groups.

I think it is much more accurate to say that children need to be taught not to hate. Anybody who has ever watched a playground full of children will quickly spot the outcasts and scapegoats. Nobody had to teach those children to turn on those who didn't fit in.


12 posted on 07/24/2005 3:59:01 PM PDT by Restorer (Liberalism: the auto-immune disease of societies.)
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To: Restorer
Yes, it is quite true that young humans, like young of major primates, exhibit a natural xenophobia when confronted with a creature which is both the same size and looks very different from them. But that would have made this more complex than your usual Op-Ed.

John / Billybob
13 posted on 07/24/2005 4:07:01 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Will President Bush's SECOND appointment obey the Constitution? I give 95-5 odds on yes.)
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To: Tanniker Smith; Congressman Billybob
Oddly enough, there are two objectionable romances. The Lt. (whose name escapes me at the moment) with Liat and Nellie with the French widower father of two half-Polynesian children.

According to Google, his name was Lt. Joseph Cable.

Congressman Billybob,

I didn't mean to dismiss your thesis. I just think that the Islamic equivalent of Rogers and Hammerstein would meet an ugly fate before their voice was heard.

(steely)

14 posted on 07/24/2005 4:47:43 PM PDT by Steely Tom (Fortunately, the Bill of Rights doesn't include the word 'is'.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
South Pacific was an early and fairly subdued shot from Hollywood in the multicultural war against the West . The sentiments it pushed and the people who pushed them are at least as reponsible for London and New York as anything taught in a Madrassa. Note the quote from Jean-Francois Revel in the link above.
15 posted on 07/24/2005 10:31:51 PM PDT by jordan8
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To: Congressman Billybob
Any suggestion as to were I might be able to get copies of english translations of the various school lessons that you mention ? Sadly there are members of my family that are basically clueless in regards to the threat that Islamic fascism poses to this nation & western civilization.
16 posted on 07/25/2005 3:13:38 PM PDT by Nebr FAL owner (.308 reach out & thump someone .50 cal.Browning Machine gun reach out & crush someone)
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To: Nebr FAL owner
I know of these translations because I have read them in passing on various threads on the Internet, over the last 12 months. I did not keep links. There are a couple of websites that are particularly dedicated to translations of Middle Eastern, or Palestinian sources.

All I can say is, a lot of Googling will bring up for you what I saw over the months. I guarantee it is there, however.

John / Billybob

17 posted on 07/25/2005 3:18:45 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Will President Bush's SECOND appointment obey the Constitution? I give 95-5 odds on yes.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

ISLAMIC MADRASSA  IN NORTH AMERICA

http://www.as-sidq.org/school.html


18 posted on 07/25/2005 3:26:30 PM PDT by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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To: Peelod

http://www.madania.org/

“In order to achieve the right understanding of Islam, the pass code to all joy, educational gardens are needed where the seeds of today have a chance to blossom into the flowers of tomorrow . It is no secret that knowledge is the first step towards human development (sic).”


19 posted on 07/25/2005 3:30:37 PM PDT by Peelod (Decentia est fragilis. Curatoribus validis indiget.)
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Comment #20 Removed by Moderator

To: Congressman Billybob
Very good!

Conversely, children have to be taught the philosophy of "Creator-endowed life, liberty and unalienable individual rights" and of the "laws of Nature and of Nature's God" that expand liberty and allow for the "pursuit of Happiness" in order to enjoy the "blessings of liberty" protected by their Constitution.

Sadly, for decades now, we have failed to pass on the ideas of liberty in our publicly-supported schools, and now we are threatened by the offspring of parents whose children have been brainwashed in the ideas of hate, tyranny, and oppression.

Ideas have consequences! (Weaver)

As Americans, we must articulate the underlying philosophy that made America a beacon for liberty to the oppressed from all over the world.

On July 4, 1821, John Quincy Adams said of our Declaration of Independence:

"It was the first solemn declaration by a nation of the only legitimate foundation of civil government. It was the corner stone of a new fabric. . . .It demolished at a stroke the lawfulness of all governments founded upon conquest. It swept away all the rubbish of accumulated centuries of servitude. It announced in practical form to the world the transcendent truth of the unalienable sovereignty of the people. It proved that the social compact was no figment of the imagination; but a real, solid, and sacred bond of the social union.

"It stands, and must forever stand, alone, a beacon on the summit of the mountain, to which all the inhabitants of the earth may turn their eyes. . . .It stands for ever, a light of admonition to the rulers of men, a light of salvation and redemption to the oppressed. . . .[as the delineation of] the boundaries of their respective rights and duties, founded in the laws of nature, and of nature's God."

President Lincoln put it another, but equally powerful, way:

"Most governments have been based practically, on the denial of the rights of men. Ours began by affirming those rights....[These opposing ideas] are the two principles that have stood face to face from the beginning of time; and will ever continue to struggle. . . .It [the denial of individual rights] is the same principle in whatever shape it develops itself....it is the same tyrannical principle."

How true! Today, the shape of the "tyrannical principle" takes one form. In other times, it has taken on different forms. We, our children and grandchildren are in a battle of ideas. Are we armed to articulate the ideas that must oppose tyranny, or have our years of neglect effectively "erased" them from our national memory?

Lincoln, again, can be consulted:

". . . it is no child's play to save the principles of Jefferson from total overthrow in this nation. . . .The principles of Jefferson are the definitions and axioms of free society. . . . And yet, they are denied, and evaded, with no small show of success. . . .All honor to Jefferson--to the man who, in the concrete pressure of a struggle for national independence by a single people, had the coolness, forecast, and capacity to introduce into a . . . revolutionary document, an abstract truth, applicable to all men and all times, and so to embalm it there, that today, and in all coming days, it shall be a rebuke and a stumbling-block to the very harbingers [initiators of threatening change] of reappearing tyranny and oppression."

21 posted on 07/26/2005 2:16:00 PM PDT by loveliberty2
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To: Tanniker Smith; cardinal4
The Lt. was named Cable, from the Philadelphia law firm of "Cable, Cable and Ca-ble."

Another verse of that song: "You've got to be taught to be afraid, of people whose eyes are differently made, of people whose skin is a differnt shade, you've got to be carefully taught."

22 posted on 07/26/2005 2:25:34 PM PDT by Ax (Only three things I miss about living in MA: The Red Sox, The Patriots and Howie Carr.)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Islam is a Death Cult.

Not a Religion. We need to start immediately deporting all Muslims. If, they are Muslim they have been taught hate and they believe it.


23 posted on 07/26/2005 2:33:38 PM PDT by auggy ( http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Generally good, BUT I really doubt that you ever read (as you say you did) translations of Islamic textbooks from North Korea. They do not have any muslims in North Korea. They have no Christians left, either, except some actors and security people playing the role for visitors, and gullible celebrities like Billy Graham.


24 posted on 07/26/2005 2:38:49 PM PDT by docbnj (There are just three good judges, joined in the this case by O'Connor (to her credit).)
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To: AZLiberty
" My mother wasn't accepted into my father's family for at least 10 years."

I've been married for 35 years and I have never been accepted into my wife's family. I am Irish.

They are all Demoncrats.

25 posted on 07/26/2005 3:03:40 PM PDT by auggy ( http://www.wtv-zone.com/Mary/THISWILLMAKEYOUPROUD.HTML)
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To: Congressman Billybob

Got an email from a friend in Afghanistan who wrote, "Been humming an Eric Bogle song lately...he wrote the song "What Kind of Man is He?" back in the late 80s.

He does write powerful lyrics. As I recall they went like this:"

What kind of man is he,
And which cause did he use
When he placed the bomb,
When he set the fuse?
Did he walk away
Crying, "liberty!"
And, if he did,
What kind of man is he?

Did he sleep well that night,
Wrapped in the dying's last screams?
Did no bloody ghosts
Walk through his dreams?
Does he shed innocent blood
As part of a grand strategy,
And, if he does,
What kind of man is he?

For all the tears of mourning,
For those you've maimed and killed,
For all the murdered children,
God damn your soul to hell!
Is he a family man?
Does he have any kids?
Will they ever understand
What their father did?
Does he use noble words
Like "freedom from tyranny"
And, if he does,
What kind of man is he?

Are you out there tonight
Wearin' your every man's face?
Do you still think of yourself
As part of the human race,
In spite of all the murders you've done
And the killing you've yet to do?
And that's why I ask,
"What kind of man are you?"

For all the tears of mourning,
For those you've maimed and killed,
For all the murdered children,
God d*** your soul to hell!
From Gethsemane to Auschwitz
The man with the gun
Has stood between us
And what we could have become.
Shall we be dragged back once again
Into barbarity?
If we let them do that
What kind of men are we?
If we let them do that
What kind of men are we?


26 posted on 07/26/2005 3:43:55 PM PDT by garybob (More sweat in training, less blood in combat.)
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To: docbnj
I did not state that there are Muslims in North Korea. They do, however, run murder factories in their schools, and I HAVE read translations of their textbooks. Such things appear here, on FreeRepublic. (Though I DO pay attention to the quality of the original sources for all information.)

John / Billybob
27 posted on 07/26/2005 4:35:34 PM PDT by Congressman Billybob (Will President Bush's SECOND appointment obey the Constitution? I give 95-5 odds on yes.)
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To: Ax
There are two versions of the song. I believe yours is the Broadway stage version and the other is the movie version. (I could have it backwards or be wrong entirely.)

That used to happen with some of the edgier songs. I believe "Officer Krupke" from West Side Story was likewise changed. I believe the stage song has a line like "my grandma pushes tea" but the movie does not.

TS

28 posted on 07/26/2005 5:44:02 PM PDT by Tanniker Smith (When you're ready to have a mature discussion about the Green Lantern, you have my email address.)
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To: garybob

And other men with guns stand between us and him.


29 posted on 07/28/2005 12:18:21 PM PDT by Yanni.Znaio (This tagline is political. The FEC is trying to make me remove it.)
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To: bayourod
When we reach the point that the population generally understands that this is a war for survival then that answer is yes.

This will be a very long war. It has been a very long war. It started 1300 years ago.But now our oceans do not insulate us from the destruction. This phase of the war, at least, will be shortened greatly when we release the prisoners and withdraw from the Moslem lands.

When that happens the reaction from the Moslems will quickly convince the whole people that it is a war for survival. Whichever party holds the white house, America will truly fight back and nukes will be involved. I expect nukes much sooner from Democrats than from Republicans because they have never been able to see the problem and will react like a betrayed lobver. The war then will lead quickly to a great reduction in Islam and probably a totalitarian US, whichever party is in power.

30 posted on 07/31/2005 12:19:24 PM PDT by ThanhPhero (di hanh huong den La Vang)
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To: jordan8; Restorer; Congressman Billybob
The problem with the lyrics is that they are just not true. I think people have a natural tendency to dislike and even hate groups of people who are noticeably different, especially when they have had bad experiences with members of those groups.

I think it is much more accurate to say that children need to be taught not to hate. Anybody who has ever watched a playground full of children will quickly spot the outcasts and scapegoats. Nobody had to teach those children to turn on those who didn't fit in.

12 posted on 07/24/2005 6:59:01 PM EDT by Restorer

South Pacific was an early and fairly subdued shot from Hollywood in the multicultural war against the West . The sentiments it pushed and the people who pushed them are at least as reponsible for London and New York as anything taught in a Madrassa.
Add in the perspective shift which Christianity has undergone in the past two centuries . . . Thomas Sowell points out that before the American Revolution there is no history of anyone opposing slavery as an institution, on principle. Christians had slaves, for example, long before Africans were sold into slavery in the South.

It was only after the American Revolution that there was any moral taint to slavery; there was no literature attempting to defend slavery before the runup to the Civil War because the institution had not previously been under attack as unchristian. But Christendom changed (coalescing into nation states too powerful to mess with for profit by slavers) and then Christianity changed. And because Christianity changed, it became hostile to the institution of slavery - with the result that the British Navy was tasked with keeping a squadron of warships off the west coast of Africa to suppress the slave trade. And of course we had the Civil War here.

But slavery was prevalent worldwide, until European (Chrisitan) colonialism in general (and the British Empire in particular) delegitimated it. So, essentially, multiculturalism is the "better" which is the enemy of Christianity, which is merely (in that sense) "good enough."


31 posted on 07/31/2005 3:22:28 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters but PR.)
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To: Congressman Billybob
An Associated Press article filed from England on 16 July, demonstrates this fact. "You could see how it could turn someone to raw hate," said Ali, recalling his brush last year with the hard-edged marketing of extremism at an Islamic bookstore operated by his brother-in-law. "It even started working on me. Then I said to myself, `Get out. This stuff is poison.'"

The problem is growing. When Pakistan became independent in 1947 it had only 137 madrassahs. Government sources put today's figure at 13,000, with enrolment close to 1.7 million.

Those vicious lessons have been reinforced in these young people by supposed moral leaders in their sermons, preaching the same doctrine to adults. There is a vast gulf between what representatives of some Islamic nations say in English to the US diplomats and to us on TV, and what they say to themselves in their institutions that breed bigotry and murder.

Important stuff...

32 posted on 07/31/2005 8:01:32 PM PDT by GOPJ (A person who will lie for you, will lie against you.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
Having a US Naval officer marry a Polynesian would not have gone over with American audiences at the time.

I don't know about that. There were plenty of Japanese wives of American servicemen about that time, and a few years later many Korean wives. Polynesians were likely more acceptable than either of those two groups. Many Navy and Army men had married Hawaiian girls, and Hawaiians are an offshoot of the Polynesians. Furthermore, the Polynesians had not recently been the enemy.

33 posted on 08/02/2005 9:48:52 AM PDT by El Gato
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To: Congressman Billybob

"You’ve Got to be Carefully Taught" -- I remember that! Mark Fuhrman sang it in the movie. ;)

Seriously, we had to sing it in junior high school in the '60s, along with other pop cultural favorites like Kum-ba-ya and Blowin' In The Wind. School was a nest of lefties even back then.


34 posted on 08/02/2005 8:06:53 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Congressman Billybob

John Kerr and Mitzi Gaynor, South Pacific

35 posted on 08/02/2005 8:30:56 PM PDT by Graymatter
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To: Gritty

save for later, but...
Passive solutions will not work.


36 posted on 08/03/2005 7:52:46 AM PDT by Les_Miserables
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To: barkeep; Congressman Billybob

The MSM downplays Sirhan Sirhan's killing of RFK. Their hatred of us goes long before any of the Gulf Wars,


37 posted on 08/03/2005 7:36:01 PM PDT by investigateworld ( God bless Poland for giving the world JP II & a Protestant bump for his Sainthood!)
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To: investigateworld

You touch on a good point, the depth of hatred held by the "true believers". New Republic, a surisingly honest liberal rag, August 8 issue has an article by Peter Scoblic on th inadequacy of current US response to nuclear threats. Democratizing the Middle East is a worthwhile goal, but hardly sufficient for our immediate defense.

As we see with the insurgent minority's attacks, only a dedicated minority need stay active to yield very real results numbered in coffins. Imagine a successful placement of a "suitcase" Hiroshima sized bomb in a major American city.

Six figure death toll, seven figure casualties, headlong panic not only in the surrounding several hundred miles, but every comparable target city for years. Economic disaster any far beyond the direct damage. Who is going to show up for work in downtown LA or Chicago if Manhatten has just turned into a crater?

Retaliation or pre-emptive? We will have no geographically identifiable nation-state target to render into green glassine slag without murdering millions of innocents.

As pointed up in the NR article, we need to move from ideological response to technological. In short, diplomacy as practiced heretofore be damned, we declare that the very act of developing or obtaining by black market, a nuclear capability by an overtly "Death to America" regime shall henceforth be considered in and of itself an act of war justifying our pre-emptive military response; i.e. taking out your plant BY WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY before it yields a useable weapon.

Does anyone seriously doubt that if Iran comes into possession of nuclear weapons, such a weapon will eventually be used against us under the name of some multi-syllabic terrorist group witout a return address? Bin Laden is where despite a $25 million reward?

We are several years too late in North Korea, I accept as given they have in hand nukes. We can hope that Kim's paranoia will hold that to defense of his regime. In that arena, China does not like a nuclear neighbor any better than we do, and come crunch time, I believe China will act to constrain that capability's use to the extent they can, with more effect than we can muster.


As to Iran, take out their identifiable plants, if they bitch about it, tough. As to "World Opinion", John Bolton is just the man to invite the UN to start packing for Geneva.

The primary duty of the American Government is to "protect [us] from all threats, foreign or domestic". The old saw about "use it or lose it". has never been more applicable


38 posted on 08/04/2005 11:44:59 PM PDT by barkeep
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To: Tanniker Smith
That used to happen with some of the edgier songs. I believe "Officer Krupke" from West Side Story was likewise changed. I believe the stage song has a line like "my grandma pushes tea" but the movie does not.

That wasn't the only line changed - the very last line of the song was changed to "Gee Officer Krupke - Krup you!"

The original line was "Gee Officer Krupke - F**k you!"

Gee, Office Krupke - I wonder why they changed it?

39 posted on 08/05/2005 6:37:52 AM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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To: Tokra

That line was actually used on the Broadway stage? Sounds more like either urban legend or wishing thinking before the show opened.


40 posted on 08/05/2005 10:40:43 AM PDT by Tanniker Smith (By definition, we cannot have Consensus until you agree with me.)
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To: Tanniker Smith
That line was actually used on the Broadway stage? Sounds more like either urban legend or wishing thinking before the show opened.


The line was never used - but was originally written that way.

There was a show on PBS a couple of years ago about the making of West Side Story (both the Broadway show and the movie). They interviewed Stephen Sondheim (who wrote the lyrics) He said he wrote the original lyric as "f**k you", but the financial backers made him change it to "Krup you". The show was interesting because it said the irony was that the 3 main originators - Sondheim, Bernstein & Jerome Robbins were all gay and wrote love songs about a hetrosexual love affair.

I'm sure the show will be rerun - watch for it.

41 posted on 08/05/2005 12:41:22 PM PDT by Tokra (I think I'll retire to Bedlam.)
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