Posted on 07/26/2005 2:08:42 PM PDT by BenLurkin
Okay, I'll just step aside and let my thirteen year old marry the molester that impregnated her.
bttt
On the one hand, we have several hadiths, said to have been narrated by Aisha herself, claiming that she was 6 or 7 years old when betrothed and 9 when the marriage was consummated. On the other hand, there is evidence from early Muslim chroniclers like Ibn Ishaq that indicates Aisha may have been 12 to 14 years old, just past the age of puberty, or perhaps even older...Most Muslim scholars have accepted the tradition that Aisha was 9 when the marriage was consummated.
Others note that Aisha was the third of Mohammad's 13 wives, which included a 17-year-old Christian slave girl who was given to him by one of his Egyptian allies.
Source: Syed Abu Zafar Zain, The Prophet of Islam, the Ideal Husband (Lahore: Kazi Publications), pp. 10-12.
Some girls and women make an adoption plan for their babies with their faces wet with tears and their hearts wringing with pain. They do it because they know they cannot provide a good family and home for their offspring; they do it because they feel strongly motivated, on a moral level, to make sure their child can grow up in a normal, stable, mother-and-father family.
My own adopted son was born poor in a place of poverty (Kamchatka peninsula) with congenital deformities which his parents couldn't deal with and couldn't correct. They sent him to an orphanage. He ended up with us, has gotten the propert corrective surgery, and is doing really well, thankyou.
I think his parents loved him. They had named him after both grandfathers. His parents were married, 30-ish, and had no other children. Every time I think of them, I think of their love.
First of all, the big problem is Hadith, which is where the age mention comes from. Lots of Hadith was written starting many years after Mohammed's and Aisha's deaths, and categorized by trustworthiness in various ways, but in general from Al-Sahih (beyond doubt) to mardud (rejected). This classification system only started 200 years after Mohammed at a time when people all over were making up Hadith to suit their particular views and purposes. It is mainly based on the number of sources and the chain back to Mohammed. A lying source close to Mohammed could be considered beyond reproach. Also, historical reports of interest such as this one were not even held to the higher standards of reports of faith, teaching or dogma.
Hadith were also classified on whether they fit with what the then-current idea of proper Islam was. This somewhat mirrors what happened with the New Testament.
Now that we know Hadith is not necessarily true, let's look for her age by the evidence found throughout rather than relying on a few dogmatic statements.
First, there's her prior history: she had already been engaged to another man for a while, that being apparently acceptable as there is no evidence of scandal. It was broken off after her family converted to Islam. She was later engaged to Mohammed, two years before he married her. If she's 5 at marriage, her first engagement would have to have been as a baby or pre-conception, which was abnormal.
Aside from that, there is a lot of relative timeline evidence to show her age as being between 10 and 14. For example, Fatima was supposed to be five years older than Aisha, and Fatima was born when Mohammed was about 35. That makes Aisha 14. There are reports that her father had all his kids pre-Islam, which would also make her at least 14.
I've read similar analyses and also refutations of them.
There were also alternative versions of the Koran which were suppressed.
But we're talking about a junk religion that has no basis in anything and
no agreement by anybody except to kill the infidel.
So it really doesn't matter.
It has its basis in two things: Judeo-Christianity and Arab culture.
"Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye, and then shalt thou see clearly to pull out the mote that is in thy brother's eye"
Matthew is my favorite.
You don't consider Abraham to be the first messenger of God? You don't believe in Moses?
As a father who has raised two boys and four girls, all of which now have children of their own, I am here to tell you that your view is not reality based. It is, in every case, the girl that is the initiator of sexual relationships. You are looking to shift the blame, and strike out in anger at someone who, in all likelihood, was drawn into the sexual relations. This is an abuse of law.
I will not accept that at all. This little girl is probably in 7th grade, he would be about a sophomore or a junior in college. I don't care how hard a 13 year old comes on to you, the law says you say no and walk away. She is not old enough or emotionally mature enough to be held responsible for her actions, but he sure as heck is. People argue all the time that this happened years ago, what is the big deal, but it is rape no matter how you look at it when the minor has no real idea about what is going on yet. What if he was 40? Would you feel the same way, or if they caught a 20 year old with a 13 year old boy, if they both consented no crime no foul?
the advantage of being a small town doc is that yes, I knew the family, and the girl... If she had been a mature girl, and not under mom's pressure to marry, and if mom wasn't a ditzy woman (most of these situations have druggie moms, but in the case I was discussing, she was merely a ditzy mom, unable to cope after her husband died). And I followed many teens in foster homes. You see, as the only "lady doc" I tended to see the teenaged girls in foster homes, often who had been sexually abused. So I knew many of the foster families too...
Anyone who could give their own flesh and blood up for adoption is a cold person. I suppose it doesn't matter to you how that might effect the mother and child. Sad.
Those allegations have been proven falseNo they haven't.
That creep Vernon Wayne Howell even MARRIED a 14 year old.
BTW, bub, those 'hearings' before whom this young witness appeared was 1995 (I *know* you didn't read my original post for comprehension).
You guys should to get your 'facts' straight ...
Of course, the root of the couple's problem is that they aren't in Kansas anymore.
Are you crazy? Men are initiators of sexual relationships. They're the ones that hit on women, ask them out and the magic word love gets dreamy girls to believe things that aren't true. He probably had a bunch of lies and this girl fell for it. Sometimes it's the other way around but mostly not. This guy has a fixation on little girls with training bra boobies and little boy bodies. He is probably cruising the pre teen chat rooms as we speak. Anybody who thinks this guys fixation on extremely young girls will disappear is fooling themselves. When this wife reaches 18-21 she won't have "the look" he is after anymore. His "wife" will be over the hill in his eyes and he will be on the lookout for more young girls if hasn't been seducing some already. This guy is not good husband material and marriage was never on his agenda. Sex with little girls was the agenda.
ROTFLMAO...
I thought the same thing!!!
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