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Film Echoes the Present in Atrocities of the Past
New York Times ^ | August 9, 2005 | David M. Halbfinger

Posted on 08/08/2005 8:08:58 PM PDT by Interesting Times

LOS ANGELES, Aug. 8 - Like a live hand grenade brought home from a distant battlefield, the 34-year-old antiwar documentary "Winter Soldier" has been handled for decades as if it could explode at any moment.

Now, the 95-minute film - which has circulated like 16-millimeter samizdat on college campuses for decades but has never been accessible to a wide audience - is about to get its first significant theatrical release in the United States, beginning on Friday at the Film Society of Lincoln Center. (Other bookings, including Chicago, Detroit, Hartford and Minneapolis, can be found at www.wintersoldierfilm.com.)

Its distributors say that the war in Iraq has made the Vietnam-era film as powerful as when it was new, and its filmmakers are calling it eerily prescient of national embarrassments like the torture at Abu Ghraib.

Seldom has a film seen by so few caused so much consternation for so many years.

[snip]

When one of the veterans - John Kerry, who was seen on screen for less than a minute - ran for president last year, the old film turned up as propaganda on both sides of the partisan divide: Mr. Kerry's friend, the filmmaker George Butler, used footage from "Winter Soldier" to lionize him in a biographical film underwritten by Democrats called "Going Upriver." His political enemies on the right, meanwhile, created a Web site called Wintersoldier.com and made a film of their own, "Stolen Honor," to assail him as a traitor and a fraud.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: aidingandabetting; boguswarcrimes; documentary; floggingadeadhorse; lyingtraitor; nytimes; nytstillshilling; stolenhonor; throwteresaout; treason; vietnam; vietnamveterans; vvaw; wewantmoreteresa; whatamaroon; whythelongface; wintersolderfilm; wintersoldier
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The New York Times apparently hopes that exhuming the old VVAW WINTERSOLDIER agitprop film will demoralize the American infidels...
1 posted on 08/08/2005 8:09:00 PM PDT by Interesting Times
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To: Howlin; eddie willers; cajungirl; wirestripper; Southflanknorthpawsis; Peach; prairiebreeze; ...

The trashing of Vietnam vets continues...


2 posted on 08/08/2005 8:10:23 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times

Hey John Frikkin Kerry, when are you going to release your COMPLETE military record?

(I know some "oldies" too.)


3 posted on 08/08/2005 8:17:53 PM PDT by porkchops 4 mahound (WHEN JOHNNY? WHEN?)
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To: Interesting Times

This will certainly turn us Vietvets into NYT reading democrats.


4 posted on 08/08/2005 8:19:24 PM PDT by js1138 (e unum pluribus)
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To: Interesting Times

How about Vietcong atrocities against innocent civilians and American soldiers?


5 posted on 08/08/2005 8:26:44 PM PDT by Fitzcarraldo
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To: Interesting Times

New York Times is a socialist (communist) newspaper.


6 posted on 08/08/2005 8:28:43 PM PDT by Dustbunny (The only good terrorist is a dead terrorist)
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To: Interesting Times

Why don't they just show "Triumph of the Will" and get it over with?


7 posted on 08/08/2005 8:30:07 PM PDT by eddie willers
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To: Fitzcarraldo
How about Vietcong atrocities against innocent civilians and American soldiers?

The leftists never cared about that, and they aren't going to start now.

They also ignore the communist genocide that followed the collapse of South Vietnam in 1975, or twist themselves into knots trying to blame it on Nixon. So far as I'm aware, the only reasonably prominent antiwar figure who spoke out against the slaughter in Cambodia was Joan Baez. She was immediately denounced by a pack of her former movement pals, with Jane Fonda taking the lead...

8 posted on 08/08/2005 8:32:35 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times

Intelligent Americans already know that lies about Vietnam are not "powerful." The subtitle of this film should be, "We're peeing on you leg and telling you it's raining." The bozos chosen to protray Vietnam combat vets in this "film" are not combat vets and many weren't even in Vietnam. The whole thing is a Liberal pro-Communist farce. It's a joke but, like a puddle of vomit, the Liberal artsy-fartsies will lick it up.


9 posted on 08/08/2005 8:32:40 PM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (We did not lose in Vietnam. We left.)
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To: eddie willers
Why don't they just show "Triumph of the Will" and get it over with?

Presumably it fared poorly in the test marketing phase.

10 posted on 08/08/2005 8:33:43 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times
This POS needs a BARF! tag.
11 posted on 08/08/2005 8:33:57 PM PDT by Milhous
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To: Milhous

Well, that should cover it.


12 posted on 08/08/2005 8:35:08 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times

Any minute I expect the left to dig out their old tie-died raggedy shirts, love beads and hash pipes.

Shades of the sixties. Only problem is that if they manage to generate the same anti war sentiments that they did then, it'll get nastier than our worst nightmare.


13 posted on 08/08/2005 8:35:38 PM PDT by Humidston (No Racial Profiles = Proof liberalism is a mental disorder)
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To: Interesting Times

aiding and abetting


14 posted on 08/08/2005 8:36:01 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: All
By the way, the only VVAW member ever to sign an affidavit about his testimony at the Winter Soldier Investigation is Steve Pitkin.

Oddly, this article doesn't mention him...

15 posted on 08/08/2005 8:37:29 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times

I'm sure the article included the fact that during the Winter Soldier investigation, the VVAW used fake vets to give accounts of atrocities. Of course they did, it's the NYT after all.


16 posted on 08/08/2005 8:38:48 PM PDT by agrace (Where were you when I founded the earth? Tell me if you know so much. Job 38:4)
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To: Fitzcarraldo
"How about Vietcong atrocities against innocent civilians and American soldiers?"

Precisely. No one ever mentions that, do they?

17 posted on 08/08/2005 8:39:48 PM PDT by sageb1 (This is the Final Crusade. There are only 2 sides. Pick one.)
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To: Interesting Times

I think this film will backfire big time if they think it will attract a new "anti-war" feeling. I remember how scummy, unwashed, doped out and repulsive these "love children" appeared.

Remember, back then there were only a few Viet Nam Vets who had the time or the inclination to speak out against the anti-war anarchists. They had done their duty and now they were busy getting on with their lives. They won't let the lies go unchallenged now.


18 posted on 08/08/2005 8:41:35 PM PDT by chgomac
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To: chgomac
They won't let the lies go unchallenged now.

No, and neither should we.

19 posted on 08/08/2005 8:42:50 PM PDT by Interesting Times (ABCNNBCBS -- yesterday's news.)
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To: Interesting Times
Its distributors say that the war in Iraq has made the Vietnam-era film as powerful as when it was new, and its filmmakers are calling it eerily prescient of national embarrassments

Wow. I agree with them. John Kerry is a national embarrassment.

20 posted on 08/08/2005 8:52:20 PM PDT by Hillarys Gate Cult
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To: Interesting Times

Thanks for the ping!


21 posted on 08/08/2005 8:59:08 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Interesting Times

I got to wonder if JFKerry's films reenacting his powerful battles will be the featured preview for this "first significant theatrical release".


22 posted on 08/08/2005 9:06:54 PM PDT by Just mythoughts
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To: Interesting Times
Nice to see that the Old York Times is trying to expand it's customer base to both Leninists and Stalinists!!

Pray for W and Our Freedom Fighters

23 posted on 08/08/2005 9:20:16 PM PDT by bray (Pray for the Freedom of the Iraqis from Islam)
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To: Interesting Times
First Jane Fonda comes out of retirement with her bus tour and now this

Gee .. what will the 60's hippie crowd come up with next
24 posted on 08/08/2005 9:20:37 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Interesting Times

Not in MY Nieghborhood


25 posted on 08/08/2005 9:28:56 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Interesting Times

Vietnam protest film...that is sooo last century. Unfortunately, so are the liberals(that's why they are so nuts...they know they are going the way of the dinosaur)


26 posted on 08/08/2005 9:38:35 PM PDT by trubluolyguy (I got an idea, and idea so devious my head would explode if I even began to know what it was.)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

To: agrace

no mention of the plot to kill the Senators.....hey, how come?


28 posted on 08/08/2005 9:43:56 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: Interesting Times
When you are in a home, an old folks home.

What will have more influence on the rest of your life or the quality of your life...

The whizzenned know it all bald headed (with a pony tail) little Viet Nam War Protester?

Or the little blue pill.

Whiners don't get Laid!

TT
29 posted on 08/08/2005 9:44:15 PM PDT by TexasTransplant (NEMO ME IMPUNE LACESSET)
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To: Mo1; All

and MORE at http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Documents

30 posted on 08/08/2005 9:52:19 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: johnny7; TomGuy; maryz; Lonesome in Massachussets; JLO; gidget7; nopardons; Kenny Bunk; GianniV; ...

LT ping. It is depressing to think we have to go thru this shite again.


31 posted on 08/08/2005 9:53:47 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: bitt

Check out the date on the minutes


32 posted on 08/08/2005 9:54:57 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Interesting Times
The trashing of Vietnam vets continues...

And it isn't only the Vietnam vets. The leftist media was the enemy then and they are the enemy now. They are doing again what they did before. Step by step, day by day, they are turning the American people against the war in Iraq.

33 posted on 08/08/2005 9:55:53 PM PDT by zot (GWB -- four more years!)
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To: Mo1

ACK!!

Sept 11!


34 posted on 08/08/2005 9:56:45 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: bitt
no mention of the plot to kill the Senators.....hey, how come?

Ummmm .. because they are afraid of the truth

35 posted on 08/08/2005 9:58:19 PM PDT by Mo1
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To: Interesting Times
Here's a New Criterion article about a documentary which should be seen after one has seen The Winter Soldier or Hearts and Minds any other lefty doc on Vietnam, just to put things in their proper context:

http://www.newcriterion.com/archive/23/sum05/sandall.htm

36 posted on 08/08/2005 10:00:15 PM PDT by RightWingAtheist (Creationism is not conservative!)
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To: bitt

Thanks for the ping!


37 posted on 08/08/2005 10:02:38 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

:)


38 posted on 08/08/2005 10:03:19 PM PDT by bitt ('We will all soon reap what the ignorant are now sowing.' Victor Davis Hanson)
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To: Interesting Times

Sounds like a man who reclaimed his soul. More power to him.


39 posted on 08/08/2005 10:11:13 PM PDT by Slings and Arrows ("MON CANARD EST EN FEU!!" -- http://www.schlockmercenary.com/d/20050620.html)
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To: RightWingAtheist
Thanks for the link. We would be foolish to think it couldn't happen again. Hillary and her cohorts are admirers of that bunch and desire to implement that system.
40 posted on 08/08/2005 11:19:31 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot
"Whoever had the most ears, they would get the most beers,"

The Clintoons have a similar system.

41 posted on 08/09/2005 1:09:35 AM PDT by ncountylee (Dead terrorists smell like victory)
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To: Interesting Times

Unfortunately this is a good time for the leftists to push the film. It’s been over 30 years since we were active in Viet Nam. The average age in the US is about 35.5 years – nearly half the population wasn’t even alive during the Viet Nam War, and many were too young to actually remember much about it. All of their information comes from our “esteemed” media – Hollywood and the evening news.
The young and impressionable will associate Viet Nam with Afghanistan and Iraq.
I hope it doesn’t become a case of “Here We Go Again”.


42 posted on 08/09/2005 2:42:01 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Fitzcarraldo

That doesn't count. Just ask any journalist.


43 posted on 08/09/2005 2:42:40 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Mo1
Gee .. what will the 60's hippie crowd come up with next

21st Century pot is far better than the weed available in the 60’s. If enough of them breakout their old bongs they might not do much of anything – hopefully.
44 posted on 08/09/2005 2:46:41 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink.)
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To: Interesting Times

BTT!!!!!


45 posted on 08/09/2005 3:03:55 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Interesting Times

While Jane Fonda and the nuts will try to have a field day with this, Horribillery won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. It's too conclusively anti-war, and H now says she supports the Iraq war effort (doesn't she?).

If the film creates a lot of attention, someone could ask her what she "feels" about it. She'll have to down it or risk losing all her careful efforts to be seen "in the middle". She could become the film's biggest critic.


46 posted on 08/09/2005 3:24:52 AM PDT by Randy Papadoo (Hey! That's NOT YOUR COOKIE!!!)
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To: Fitzcarraldo

How about the millions that died from Pol Pot after the U.S. withdrawal?


47 posted on 08/09/2005 3:50:28 AM PDT by Northern Yankee (Freedom Needs A Soldier)
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To: Interesting Times; All
(Other bookings, including Chicago, Detroit, Hartford and Minneapolis...)

Maybe we can get some FReeper's to be present for these showings?

48 posted on 08/09/2005 4:16:29 AM PDT by johnny7 (Racially-profiling since 1963)
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To: Chevy Sales
or Warren Beatty in REDS

Good one!

49 posted on 08/09/2005 5:01:59 AM PDT by eddie willers
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To: bitt
LT ping. It is depressing to think we have to go thru this shite again.

We should welcome the showing of the film. It is an opportunity to get the truth out about the VVAW and the whole sordid mess. The Left likes to use the Vietnam analogy every time US forces are in action. It is a two-edged sword because of what happened after we left. If there is one lesson to be learned from Vietnam, it is to stay the course.

50 posted on 08/09/2005 5:35:04 AM PDT by kabar
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