Posted on 08/10/2005 11:25:50 AM PDT by JZelle
"Actually, I'm Agnostic. There may be a "magical entity" out there, maybe not. I don't know. As I said before, I'm just a guy who hates hippies."
LOL ok exile, thanks for the honest reply. I'm not real fond of the whole hippie ethic myself, although there is this one little dread-locked gal down the street from me....WOW
You know, I'm going to have to side with the ACLU on this one (I know, I know, I'm going to burn for this); the government cannot favor one religion over another. If they allow one religious group to offer prayers before a meeting, then in all fairness they have to offer that opoortunity to all relgious groups.
Understood. Blessed be.
Slainte mhor agus a h-uile beannachd duibh
Doc
Well, we aren't talking about freedom of speech.
We are talking about saying a prayer at a public meeting.
It seems that some of you are saying that at public meetings, we want prayer, and we want it to be Christian prayer.
And if another religion asks for that same opportunity, what do you say to them?
So will witnesses just bring along to court whatever it is that they want to swear on?
Or will the courts be required to have on hand any and all possible items that a witness would require before they could be sworn in?
I think the way to go is simply to forgoe the swearing in and use the threat of perjury prosecution against lying.
The same goes for eliminating prayers before begining public meetings.
It's going to end up going this way, eventually, since we're no longer a culturally united people.
If any official member of the body wants to identify themselves as a Wiccan, then Wiccan prayers might be appropriate. Until then, they really aren't, are they?
Sure they are, if any member of the community identifes himself as a Wiccan. The board represents the community, not just itself. That's the relevant "body."
As much as I hate to agree with them, the ACLU is actually right on this one. If the Founders wanted religious freedom only for Christians and Jews, they could have done so in the Constitution. They, in their wisdom, did not.
Why? You make your proclamation as if it was the last word on the subject, but you don't offer a rationale. And, the ad hominem was really uncalled for.
The swearing on the Koran is an interesting issue since apparently it is OK in their religion to lie to the infidels.
I'd say as soon as enough legislators here ask to have that "other religion's" people speak, we'll get them in here. But for now, few if any want to listen to that person. That's what I'd say to them. The invocation isn't done to promote the speaker or his affiliate, it's done because the majority of the legislators obviously feel it helps them in performance of their duties. In which case they should have who they want.
That's my understanding, too.
Just my opinion, of course... If city officials decide to open a meeting with prayer, it will be a prayer that those city officials believe has meaning.
If those officials are muslims, it will probably be a muslim prayer. If they are Christians and Jews, it will probably be a preacher or rabbi leading the prayer. If they are in private, one of the officials might lead the prayer himself, but he probably won't do that in public.
I doubt those officials have any faith in the efficacy of a wiccan prayer, so it would make no sense for them to ask for such a prayer. That would not stop a wiccan from praying on their behalf, though. Asking for prayer is not establishing a religion, but it is meaningless to ask for a prayer you have no faith in.
When you find wiccans on the city council, they will probably want a wiccan prayer spoken. Since that would probably offend the non-wiccans on the council, they will probably discontinue the practice of public prayer. Its human. You may not like it, but you have to leave room for humans to be human. You have surely figured out by now that its pointless to force your beliefs on the majority.
I am often in the minority, and it doesn't upset me. I am not offended if the majority does not agree with me, I would be shocked if they did.
Yes, actually. That';s what the Founders gave us.
The government doesn't have the power to determine the turth of any religion (except, of course, for the IRS!).
Once a faith has been established as such, it must be treated the same as all other faiths. It must be given the same access given to other faiths. If you give Protestants the right to speak before meetings, you can't deny Catholics the same right, nor may you deny Scientologists, nor Jews, nor Pentacostals, nor Congregationalists, nor Wiccans that right. All are equally "valid" for the purposes of the government.
The founders gave us a blueprint by which to build and govern a nation that respects the individual balancing that against the public good.
We have to use it wisely. And while I don't like the idea of every religion under the sun offering prayers at our public meetings, I don't think you can just restrict such prayers to Christians.
I'm still waiting to read a response that would explain to any person of a non-Christian faith why their prayer cannot be said at public meeting but mine can.
That's incorrect actually, the benediction in such a forum directly represents the Board itself.
Just because someone claims to follow another faith doesn't mean that we can recognize it as a religion. Wicca is one that clearly fails that test in our society.
That's about right, the ACLU prefers the devil to God.
But, as I said, the Board represents the community. These are public meetings of a governmental agency. They cannot discriminate against any segment of the community when granting another segment special access.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.