Posted on 08/14/2005 1:25:44 PM PDT by adam_az
Edited on 08/14/2005 1:28:27 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
Live thread for posting breaking news about the Gaza Explulsion which is set to begin within the hour...
It's easier to be pro-settlement from the U.S. rather than on the front lines. We need to remember the ex-patriots don't necessarily speak for the actual Israeli residents. It's a bit like the pejorative "chickenhawk" regarding those who are always eager to go to war yet unwilling to serve. That seems to classify an awful lot of neocon members of the political class.
Why do you waste your time responding to the nonsense TAquinas and Diddle E. Squat spew on this forum. They are nothing but shills for Jew-hating Arabs and belong on DU with their own kind.
Good. That man understands what they're up against over there.
Oh, I'm no expert in Arab-Israeli politics. I could be totally mistaken about what's going on here---and I sure hope I am. But this looks like a cave-in to me, a deliberate cave-in, executed by our president and the Israeli govt.
And they don't owe me any explanations, but GWB and Sharon do owe explanation to every man and woman in Israel. I am willing to suppose that there is some method to the apparent madness, but nobody should ever ask for that much faith, and those who do ask it, IMO, invariably don't deserve it.
I am giving GWB blind loyalty right now, and I resent that. How much more would I resent that if I had to pack up and leave my home on his say-so!
Every army that wins has at least 10 in the rear supporting those on the front lines. Give up this "chickenhawk" stuff. It's old. Stale. Moldy. It dates you.
Yep, and by falling for the Arab "illegal occupation" crap, the Bushies are setting us up for future Mexican and international action against our so-called "occupation" and annexation of Aztlan land, without the approval of any other international power at that time. These rules seem only to apply to Israel and no one else. Certainly not to the Arabs who threw 900,000 Jews out of Arab lands and stole their possessions over the last 100 years.
In earthly matters we *cannot* accept some religious tradition or superstition to resolve who has a "right" to a piece of dirt. Besides, if Jesus is the Messiah, the Jews are all religiously out of step not unlike the Pharisees and Sadducees as depicted and described in the Bible or the Greek and Roman pagan worshipers.
This is one reason I get queasy over those who pursue politics from their Faith's tenets rather than acknowledging a different calling as an American, a calling that involves equality, free and fair debate. Setting aside your articles of Faith in matters of political will does not mean you are supporting or endorsing evil but that you are well grounded enough in the humanist philosophical foundations behind many of your Faith's values to rationally argue for your view to hold sway.
You don't have to be a Christian to be pro-life and take up that argument. Nor do you have to be pro-abortion to understand you can only argue, debate, educate and attempt to persuade women to "choose life" since each American is a sovereign citizen subject to no one's absolute control. It's like Bush says about the need to *change hearts* to make progress on this issue while "reasonable people can disagree." I have to disagree with him on the "reasonable" part. I don't see how any "reasonable" person can not see partial-birth abortion as infanticide.
It's an example of the ignorance and lies that permeate discussion of the Mideast. "
As my son, who is in Iraq for the third time and was Bar Mitzvah at the Kotel, would say, "There is nothing stupider than a reporter."
Um......I would've considered having an interesting discussion on this, but you blew it big time with your LOADED AND ASININE STATEMENT in the very FIRST sentence. So, you KNOW "this" makes me uncomfortable do you? And do you KNOW my hairstyle as well? Do tell? Or are you just "all-knowing"? In that case, how about the winning numbers for the next lottery tickets I buy, SHEESH! I'm sorry, but this type of LOADED BS is typical in today's MSM, and I have to get my "BS Detector" out everytime I read any of it, but I'm sure not going to put up with it when posting with others on a discussion board. Oh, and for your information, NO, it wouldn't have made me uncomfortable at all. [enter rolling eyes icon here]
Michael Freund 8/14/05
In remarks to the press the other day, US President George W. Bush unwittingly laid out a convincing reason why an Israeli withdrawal from Gaza is not a wise move.
Referring to mounting pressure on the Administration to pull out US forces from Iraq, Bush said:
"I also have heard the voices of those saying, pull out now, and I've thought about their cry, and their sincere desire to reduce the loss of life by pulling our troops out. I just strongly disagree. Pulling the troops out would send a terrible signal to the enemy. Immediate withdrawal would say to the Zarqawis of the world, and the terrorists of the world, and the bombers who take innocent life around the world, you know, the United States is weak; and all we've got to do is intimidate and they'll leave."
All you need to do is replace the word “Zarqawis” with “Abu Mazens", and “the United States” with “Israel”, in the President’s remarks, and you have a darned good reason why the proposed Israeli retreat is a mistake of strategic and historic proportions.
Instead of punishing Palestinian terrorism, the Gaza withdrawal rewards it in an unprecedented manner.
Too bad that Bush and his pal Sharon refuse to acknowledge this basic truth – but the saddest part of all is that it is the people of Israel who will inevitably pay the price for their folly.
http://www.israelnn.com/special.php?id=freund
From the Haaretz Ticker:
04:07 Yesha Council tells youths in Gaza to get sleep, save energy for morning (Israel Radio)
04:01 Officer: IDF will do everything in its power to halt looting in settlements (Israel Radio)
03:59 Blast heard in Neveh Dekalim; settlers told to take cover (Israel Radio)
Another headline from Ha'aretz:
05:02 Palestinians fire two mortar shells at Gaza settlement of Gadid (Israel Radio)
Too cowardly to ping me when you trash me? You've been around long enough to know forum etiquette.
Please quote any post I've made that would support your vile slander that I'm a "shill for Jew-hating Arabs". Especially since I haven't even stated a position on this thread. BTW, if you don't know the difference between 'Explulsion', 'Explusion', and 'Expulsion', you will look like an even bigger hysterical tinfoil fool than normal. And I'd be quite happy to provide a quick list of your recent posts backing my last characterization, if you so request.
Well! THIS plan worked well, huh?
/sarcasm
But those on the front lines, as noble as they are, sometimes can lose sight of the larger goal, because their judgment about the rightness of what they're doing may be influenced by their desire not to get their butts shot off.
There are different points of view that contribute to the pool of info we need to draw from, don't you think?
"While some of the more secular of the 21 Gaza settlements are nearly empty, others have seen their population swell in recent weeks with settlers from the West Bank and other ideological supporters who have infiltrated the territory."
Ugh. The AP has never used infiltrated to describe the illegal immigrant influx into our nation. I don't believe I've seen them use infiltrated to describe the jihadi's streaming the border into Iraq to become "insurgents." Yet for Israelis showing support for their brethren, the AP uses this phrase. Why can't more people see the not so thinly veiled antisemitism.
EXCELLENT point.
"You realize of course that President Bush, or whoever might be in office, would sharply curtail US aid if Israel took such action, and no nation on Earth would support it, right?"
What good is the aid if the string it's attached to is a noose?
The rest of the world doesn't care whether Israel exists or not, anyway. For most, it's existence is something of an inconvenience.
"You'll find that many of the really hard core pro-settlement posters are in the US. Some of our bona fide Israeli posters who are more moderate occasionally bring this up."
I support Taiwan against China perhaps more than some left-leaning Taiwanese as well. I suppose you think they are "moderate" as well.
It's a withdrawal under fire, EXACTLY as anyone with even 1/10 of a functioning brain (which apparently exludes Sharon) realized would happen and guaranteed would happen.
Is is retreating under fire.
There will be a lot more fire coming.
And a lot more war and dying.
You cannot give savages a state and expect them to be honorable people, they are savages and their savage instincts must be eliminated first.
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