Addressed here:
Posted on 08/14/2005 1:25:44 PM PDT by adam_az
Edited on 08/14/2005 1:28:27 PM PDT by Sidebar Moderator. [history]
Live thread for posting breaking news about the Gaza Explulsion which is set to begin within the hour...
Are you implying that the Israelis are better shots? Got any figures since Bush took office?
The Israel/Palestine situation is a feud without end.
We can all agree on that. This is blood hatred, and makes the Hatfields and the McCoys look like a schoolyard pissing contest. Did I simplify it enough for you?
" That is very concrete thinking."
I was responding to YOUR comparison to the Napoleon situation w/ Russia.
" Can you describe to me how wasting Israeli military strength protecting militarily useless settlements inside Gaza (thereby fighting the war of attrition that you say Israel cannot afford) instead of establishing a defense line behind the Israeli Wall increases Israel's strategic depth?"
The settlements were established at strategically important locations.
The Philadelphi route is being abandoned. The Egyptians who are taking it over (gag) have no stomach for eliminating the smuggling tunnels. (I'm assuming you know what/where that is)
The IDF will have a most difficult time operating in Gaza now - militarily and politically.
There is still the issue of missiles being shot over the walls. Watch as the Palestinians smuggle in Katyushas to suppliment their homegrown missiles.
But not to missiles or mortars being shot over it, as happens regularly.
So, Israeli settlers hunkering down in their settlements inside Gaza stop Palestinian mortar and rocket attacks against Israel.....
How?
If anything, the settlers provide easier and closer targets for such attacks.
Fallujah was pacified only after it was cordoned off and the majority of civilians left.
Then, it became an very target-rich environment for U.S. forces who did not have to worry about the safety of civilians.
With the Israeli settlers behind the Israeli Wall, any Palestinian rocket or mortar attack can be met with overwhelming Israeli air power without having to worry about the Israeli settlers that are currently playing the role of "Human Shields" for the Palestinians.
Look at a map and then get back to me.
This is exactly correct. Every time Israel has legitimately tried to protect herself, everyone starts yelping like kicked dogs. Israel should flip the bird, and strike at will...of course, imo.
That was not my comparison. That was Aloutte's comparison.
I was responding to Alloutte's comparison of the Gaza situation to Napoleon's defeat caused, in her opinion, by his decision to retreat from Moscow.
The truism put forth was that any retreat in the face of the enemy is a sign of weakness. Such a mindset is a guarantee of military disaster.
In fact, what got Napoleon into that mess in the first place was his refusal to consider any retreat when military common sense required it.
The settlements were established at strategically important locations. The Philadelphi route is being abandoned. The Egyptians who are taking it over (gag) have no stomach for eliminating the smuggling tunnels. (I'm assuming you know what/where that is) The IDF will have a most difficult time operating in Gaza now - militarily and politically. There is still the issue of missiles being shot over the walls. Watch as the Palestinians smuggle in Katyushas to suppliment their homegrown missiles.
See my Post 444.
If Egyptian smuggling becomes a problem, Israel, in self defense, can cut off the Southern end of Gaza with an armored thrust and, in one day, turn Gaza into the world's largest POW camp.
Even without such a move, Gaza will become the Israeli Air Force's Happy Hunting Ground.
The Palestinian Authority will have to choose between battling Hammas or watching Gaza's infrastructure reduced to rubble.
Let's see.
Israeli Navy to the West. Israeli Wall to the North and East. A narrow open corridor to the South that can be cut off at will by an Israeli armored thrust whenever Israel sees fit to do so.
Yep.
As I said before.......
Gaza: The World's Largest POW Camp.
"The truism put forth was that any retreat in the face of the enemy is a sign of weakness. Such a mindset is a guarantee of military disaster."
SOME retreats are disasterous. This is one example.
"If Egyptian smuggling becomes a problem, Israel, in self defense, can cut off the Southern end of Gaza with an armored thrust and, in one day, turn Gaza into the world's largest POW camp."
Look at a map.
That's not what the Philadelphi route does. It would have no effect on the smuggling.
If they did reoccupy the Philadelphi route after abandoning it... they will be facing down EGYPTIAN soldiers.
You know, the ones who were supposed to be absent from there in exchange for giving back the Sinai.
"A narrow open corridor to the South that can be cut off at will by an Israeli armored thrust whenever Israel sees fit to do so."
Like I said... not without facing down Egyptians.
Jerusalem. (see Zachariah 12)
Can't hardly wait for the MSM, and the UN, and even my own president, to put the thumbscrews to Israel to give up Jerusalem. Am I thinking about the wrong person when I say that Moishe Dayan would not even tolerate this for one minute? Do I have the wrong person?
"Israeli Dead: 974
Palestinian Dead: 3661
'snip'
Israel's hands are not clean, especially under Sharon. We must look at the *facts* on *both* sides, get past our "rage head terrorist" vision of Arabs"
.................
Since when do you look for parity in numbers killed between the attackers and defenders?
Do you look for equal numbers of US troops to be killed when the terrorists in Iraq attack? And what about when terrorists attack civilians at home?
You are spouting moral equivalency where there is none. At the height of the Intifada over 75% of Palistinians in disputed territories supported suicide killers.
"If Egyptian smuggling becomes a problem, Israel, in self defense, can cut off the Southern end of Gaza with an armored thrust and, in one day, turn Gaza into the world's largest POW camp."
Furthermore...
And IF?
It's been a problem for decades.
What makes you think it's about to go away?
All evidence suggests it will only get more brazen.
"Can't hardly wait for the MSM, and the UN, and even my own president, to put the thumbscrews to Israel to give up Jerusalem. Am I thinking about the wrong person when I say that Moishe Dayan would not even tolerate this for one minute? Do I have the wrong person?"
Yes, considering that he gave the Arabs the Temple Mount!
Aw, I missed TAquinas' exit. ...had quite a few quotes prepared from works of the original Thomas Aquinas and didn't get to use them. It's really ugly stuff.
Thomas Aquinas' letter to Margaret of flanders
http://www.thomistica.net/margaret-of-flanders-online/
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena1.ii.xxvii.html
(see commentary of Jerome)
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/catena1.ii.xxviii.html
(see commentary of Raban.)
...and much more. I respect wholesome religious beliefs very much, but religious "identity" without those beliefs is sometimes another matter.
"What am I missing here? Has the world gone crazy? I thought there was a war on terror, not an appeasement! These murdering scum are being rewarded, why?"
I don't understand it either. It's as though the world has been turned upside down. What's happening is backwards, imo.
I honestly dont see the benefit for Israel in doing this. All this does is give terrorists a free pass to smuggle in from Egypt and furth endanger all of Israel. I do understand the demographic/voting and the protection argument but they aren't worth this. I honestly don't think it's an overeaction to say this is the could jeopardize the very existance of the state of Israel. I pray not, but this could be an awful turning point.
"I honestly don't think it's an overeaction to say this is the could jeopardize the very existance of the state of Israel. I pray not, but this could be an awful turning point."
I don't think you're over-reacting at all. I think you're right about Egypt. The terrorists only recently attacked Egypt. I can't understand how giving them more land will change their terrorist spots/ways.
Prayers for Israel and for our country too.
We will have "Peace in our time."(sarcasm)
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