Gaza Disengagement/Expulsion Live Thread

FR live thread | 7/14/2005 | none

[adam_az]

Live thread for posting breaking news about the Gaza Explulsion which is set to begin within the hour...

[edmond246]

Today and this week marks what will soon begin a new era, not an era on the level of "Cold War, Post-Cold War, Post-9/11" but a new era in which only one other distintion has ever been made. Before and after Christ. We now decend slowly into a terrible time of terrorism, fear, and power grabbing. Before it is all over with, fear not, Israel will decide that this experiment in Palestianian statehood has failed (at the cost of hundreds of lives)and they will take iron-fisted control of Gaza, wiping out the terror organizations that ARE there and WILL SOON BE there. This explusion falling on the 9th of Av is so elegant that this couldn't be a book written by any other than God himself. Also, the Jews praying and pleading at the Wailing Wall, their cries will not go unheeded. Even as a Christian, I know that my God and my Savior Jesus Christ will not let these people of the same God suffer.

In the coming days, things cannot be predicted to go well for the IDF planned evacuation. It may be as bad as riots that leave dozens dead, and the IDF shamed for decades. Or it may be as bad as a suprise terrorist attack, in the form of an army of sucide bombers, gunmen, and pure hatred that pours in during the chaos that will be Wednesday. They will take advantage of the situation and show the world what they used the recent 6 month "lull" in fighting for. To prepare for a jihad reminicint of the so called "Golden Days" of Islam.

Of course, this is just pure speculation, long hours at home with nothing to do tonight, and an odd sense of "oh shits gonna hit the fan this time." but in the end, no matter the words i just said...it simlpy comes down to: Believe in Him.

[philetus]

So. Israel gave up land.

And the bombings have already begun"

History, once again, repeats itself.

[Lijahsbubbe]

Oh Funny! I guess it looks like it IS turkey bacon! LOL.

[Brad’s Gramma]

but in the end, no matter the words i just said...it simlpy comes down to: Believe in Him.

Yes. There's not much time left, the way I see it...

[adam_az]

"Every house that has been evacuated is marked with a big "X" inside a circle."

You can bet your bottom that the resisters will paint X's on their houses, as well...

[edmond246]

We are very much in agreeance here. This almost confirms my fears. Just it excites me the same. It is time for Christ to do battle with the forces of evil. It is time for the world to understand the true nature of Good and evil. Soon enough I suppose.

[Polybius]

My arguments are based on sound military doctrine.

Napoleon's retreat from Moscow? I prefer Sherman's doctrine.

I'm very glad you brought up Napoleon's Russian Campaign, Alouette, as it is considered the classic military example of what I wrote in Post 349:

"The most crushing defeats in military history have been suffered by commanders who were too proud and/or foolish to retreat when they were up against commanders that saw retreat as just one more tool in their military arsenal."

The almost total destruction of Napoleon's Grand Armee came about not because of Napoleon's retreat from Moscow but because of Napoleon's hubris in pushing on towards Moscow long after military common sense dictated that he should retreat.

The Russians, on the other hand, were willing to retreat further and further into Russia without regards as to whether Napoleon was laughing or gloating or ridiculing them or worrying about anything else that appealed to foolish pride rather than military common sense.

As Napoleon advanced and the Russians continued to retreat, Winter started to appear.

Still, Napoleon's foolish pride, the result of too many victories, clouded his military common sense and would not allow him to retreat back to Germany to fight another day.

Day after day, Napoleon's hubris and ego drove him on, further and further into Russia when military common sense dictated that he should retreat back to Germany.

In response the Russians retreated some more.

The Russians even abandoned Moscow which Napoleon captured.

And there at Moscow, as Winter progressed, he waited for the Russians to surrender.

But, the Russians just retreated further back from Moscow.

As time passed and Winter came in with full force, Napoleon realized the extent of his monumental blunder.

If he had retreated when the weather had started to turn, he would now be back in Germany planning his next season's campaign with a relatively intact Grand Armee. Instead, his Grand Armee was now starving and freezing in Moscow.

If he stayed in Moscow, his losses would be 100% by Spring.

If he retreated now, way past the time when he should have, he might save some of his Grand Armee.

In the end, by retreating months after he should have, Napoleon managed to save a tiny bit of his Grand Armee.

This classic graph by the French cartographer Minard shows the Grand Armee's losses plotted in relation to distance and time. West is towards the left-hand side and East is towards the right-hand side. The tan bands represent the advance towards Moscow. The black band represents the retreat from Moscow.

The width of the bands represent the number of Grand Armee troops still alive at that point in distance and time along bith the advance and retreat.

Look at the graph.

Look at how the width of the tan bands shrink as Napoleon foolishly refuses to retreat at the start of Winter.

Read again about the Russian tactics.

Read again about Napoleon's foolish refusal to retreat one mile until the destruction of his Grad Armee was ensured.

Then, read again what I previously wrote:

"The most crushing defeats in military history have been suffered by commanders who were too proud and/or foolish to retreat when they were up against commanders that saw retreat as just one more tool in their military arsenal."

In regards to Sherman, the Union in the Civil War defeated fellow countrymen of predominantly the same race and the same religion and forcibly integrated them back into American society. Unless you really want to do that with the Palestinians (and I would strongly advise against it) you then really need to pick another military example.

In the end, when you capture a hostile population, you need to either assimilate them (as America did with the Indians), enslave them (as the Spartans did to the Helots), exterminate them (as the Nazis tried to do), reform them (as the U.S. did with Japan and Germany) or, if none of those options apply, emasculate them, isolate them from you and let them stew in their own juices (as Israel is now about to do.)

[Brad’s Gramma]

This almost confirms my fears. Just it excites me the same.

Ditto that....What a day we live in...

[SevenofNine]

I love this thread go from Napolean to Black Jack Pershing hey Alouette don't forget Napolean came this close settle in Jerserlum back in da day he refuse saying that in God times

Even Napolean know that anybody who mess with Jerserlum would face wrath from the Man upstairs

[Brad’s Gramma]

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/612715.html


Sickening...

[Jrabbit]

That is just downright pathetic! And sad. All I can think of when reading these posts about how wonderful it is that these people are being "relocated", is the mob cheering for the terrorists on 9-11. These are the people that this land is being given to?

I'd burn my house, fields, and poison the water supply. And I'd leave Israel. I do not understand this!

[Jrabbit]

What am I missing here? Has the world gone crazy? I thought there was a war on terror, not an appeasement! These murdering scum are being rewarded, why?

[TheSpottedOwl]

I gather you're FReeping from Israel and are an Israeli citizen. I'm an American born citizen, have served for the USA and pledge my allegiance and loyalty to America. So it's understandable for you to be loyal to Israel. But don't expect me to be loyal to a foreign nation.

I'm FReeping from CA. I'm a native born American citizen, and my kinfolks emigrated from Ireland. I don't need to remind you of what happened to Irish Catholics at the hands of invaders, do I?

I love my country, make no mistake about that, however I believe that our president makes mistakes just like any other human being. This is another one. This does not make me loyal to another nation. I support Israel, and believe that the withdrawal is a huge mistake. A really HUGE mistake. The terrorists are already planning on the next target to devour. I really don't understand your attitude, but since this is America, you have a right to express your opinion....

[Brad’s Gramma]

Pray and pray and pray some more...

[Jrabbit]

I am. I will.

[hipaatwo]

Gaza is the appetizer. Judea and Samaria, the entree.

What's for dessert? :-(




Jerusalem :(

[Polybius]

Have you guys thought this withdrawal from Gaza might be in prepaparation of something else? A massive hit on Iran perhaps? it seems to me Sharon is handling this the only feasible way... protect the Israeli people against impending dangers. This has the strokes of something else to come...

It seems that military considerations carry no weight with the emotional crowd.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Oh, BTW, you never answered my question from earlier...

[SevenofNine]

That is stick BG

I been offline since it was my birthday August 14 today I been offline I catch up on wire so I got into that thread little late LOL!

What do you expect from Palensttins and Hamas supporters BUNCH OF ANIMALS

[Will_Zurmacht]

remember, when the palis are celebrating their defeat of Israel and the West, and vowing in this article to continue the "armed struggle" until they liberate "all the occupied territories are liberated" ....they don't mean Gaza and the West Bank....

they mean all of the territory of Israel.

Many people forget that the palis deny the very existance of the State of Israel.

And they have achieved their first victory with this today. The rest will come...The West and Israel have blinked first.

The Palis, and the Arab world in turn, have already learned that blowing up school buses = getting what you want.
You can even get the West to support you if you create enough havoc and blow up enough little girls at their birthday parties...

The Palis, and Islamic extremism have won, and any other excuse is simply denial of the obvious facts.

Once this precendent has been established, that terror is acceptable, and even rewarded, you will never get the genie back in the bottle.