Yaryag undergoing work through 2004 in the Dalian Shipyards
Varyag after movement to another shipyard in 2005
Posted on 08/14/2005 6:00:25 PM PDT by Jeff Head
Is China building a carrier?
By Yihong Chang JDW Correspondent &
Andrew Koch JDW Bureau Chief
Hong Kong & Washington, DC
Chinese shipyard workers have been repairing a badly damaged ex-Russian aircraft carrier and have repainted it with the country's military markings, raising the question once again of whether China is pursuing longer-term plans to field its first carrier.
In the latest developments, images show that workers at the Chinese Dalian Shipyard have repainted the ex-Russian Kuznetsov-class aircraft carrier Varyag with the markings and colour scheme of the People's Liberation Army (PLA) Navy (PLAN). Additional new photographs show that other work, the specifics of which could not be determined, appears to be continuing and that the condition of the vessel is being improved.
JDW believes that PLAN technicians have also conducted thorough studies of the basic structure of the Varyag during the past few years to obtain a comprehensive understanding of the carrier's structural design. Former PLAN commander General Liu Huaqing stated in his memoirs that China had purchased blueprints for the carrier - a fact that Russian sources confirmed to JDW. Moreover, Gen Huaqing added: "The competent departments of the defence industry employed Russian aircraft carrier designers to come to China and give lectures."
Still, China's ultimate intentions for the Varyag remain unclear. One possibility is that Beijing intends to eventually have it enter into some level of service. A military strategist from a Chinese military university has commented publicly that the Varyag "would be China's first aircraft carrier".
(Excerpt) Read more at janes.com ...
Now, as work continues and the vessel takes on more and more vistage of a ship being worked on and potentially prepared for service, that is all the more obvious.
China is embarked on one of the largest naval military buildups in history. Given the miriad of new vessels they are building, including all of the vessels necessary to comprise a Carrier Battle Group, except the carrier, an operational Chinese carrier group in the China Sea will pose a major upset in the balance of power.
For much more information on the Chinese Naval buildup, see:
For those following the continued PLAN (Red Chinese Navy) buildup...this latest from Jane's on the carrier.
It just seems odd to me that a regime which is basing a new blue water fleet on the submarine, and concentrating on developing and amassing anti-carrier weapons, would bother with an expensive-and in their view, eventually worthless-weapons system like an aircraft carrier.
I acquired this photo at great risk.
Casino ship or not, it still seems like there's alot of gambling involved.
Communist China has Imperialistic ambitions...
That's hilarious.
big whoop.......buying a aircraft carrier dont mean squat until you have experience in sea warfare. Which China DOESNT.
"It just seems odd to me that a regime which is basing a new blue water fleet on the submarine, and concentrating on developing and amassing anti-carrier weapons, would bother with an expensive-and in their view, eventually worthless-weapons system like an aircraft carrier."
A status symbol as well as a capability perhaps? It will really scare me when China has a competent submarine fleet. Until then, they really are limited in projecting their power.
I missed something here... How did it get damaged?
Another Chinese carrier.
The PLA leaders want to look at it that way, but those interested in projecting power beyond the 1st Island chain do not feel that way at all and have clearly influenced the money strings. The Vayrag is just the latest in at least 3 or 4 other older carrier purchases that the Chinese have made. They are studying the issue and the main arguement right now is whether to build their own first one...or to make the fist something like the Vayrag from which they can learn.
In addition, for the last couple of years at least, at internal airfields, they have been practicing SU-27 and SU-30 aircraft take-offs from land based bow jumps...just like on the Vayrag.
My bet is that they will end up doing both.
An aircraft carrier is old war thinking. With modern ASW capabilities widely available, the submarine isn't very much more advanced.
I can't see the Chinese spending all that money on a carrier when they have so many bases around the world to develop--like in Panama and the Bahamas, for instance...
I would suggest that we do not trivialize or underestimate them...a lot of people did the same to the Japanese prior to WWII and it came back to haunt them...and cost a lot of lives to put that genie back in the bottle.
Seems plain as day to me
Agreed...but that is always the case with totalitarian governments that have a history of attacking their neighbors.
Bump to send to Chinese friend.
Per my #13, one would think their resources were better spent on hardening bases. That, and submarines, seem to be where their heads are at these days.
SO9
But not damged in the classical sense.
Don't tell the ChiComs, but we would sink their little boat without even seeing it....
The UN refused to classify this ship as a floating casino after becoming suspicious when the inspecting team pulled one of the slot machine handles and it launched three missiles. ;>
Just my point. Even the communists are betting that our carriers are fat juicy targets just waiting for a missle swarm.
Hehe
Who's kidding who about who leads and who follows?
" I acquired this photo at great risk."
That's a pretty short catapult ride there. They must really pour on the knots to get that sucker airborne.
"buying a aircraft carrier dont mean squat until you have experience in sea warfare. Which China DOESNT."
They'll be getting plenty of experience but it won't last long.
Well they have seen what happened to our destroyer when confronted with a small boat full of explosives.
let them build two, two carriers, two bombs, they are out alot of money
I know I sound like a broken record on these fora, but their possession of our national debt instruments is a greater threat than any dozen aircraft carriers.
I wouldnt discount any potential enemy.
We have what 11 active carriers?
We should build 11 more.
Name the active carriers and receive the Golden Citizen Award...
Maybe, maybe not. The Varyag is a Kuznetsov-class carrier.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery;jsessionid=bgteb70b6tnjq?method=4&dsid=2222&dekey=Soviet+aircraft+carrier+Kuznetsov&gwp=8&curtab=2222_1&sbid=lc01a&linktext=%3CI%3EKuznetsov%3C%2FI%3E-class
***
Intended missions
While designated an aircraft carrier, Kuznetsov's design implies a mission different from that of either the United States Navy's carriers or those of the Royal Navy's. The Russian ship is termed by her builders to be a tyazholiy avionosnyy kreyser - a "heavy aviation cruiser" - intended to support and defend strategic missile-carrying submarines, surface ships, and maritime missile-carrying aircraft of the Russian fleet. The aircraft of the Kuznetsov are essentially constrained to air superiority operations. The lack of catapults on the Kuznetsov precludes launching strike aircraft with heavy loads, which makes it essentially impossible for aircraft to attack land or naval targets. The carrier can carry helicopters for anti-submarine operations, however, and she also carries anti-shipping missiles.
***
The air wing of a Kuznetsov-class is 16 Yak-41M Freestyles, 12 Sukhoi SU-27K, and a whole bunch of choppers - including over 20 choppers. Basically, it is a cross between one of our Tarawa-class assault carriers and our old Forrestal-class fleet carriers, with some Nimitz-class features thrown in (though it's not nuclear powered). It's intended to support and defend a sub fleet, which is what the Chinese are building. It has a LOT more defensive systems than our Nimitz class, especially after the latest Nimitz upgrades that removed the CIWS emplacements in favor of Sea Sparrow launchers. It doesn't need a task force to escort it.
Chinese artist rendering of the same
In addition, they have spent significant time and money studyoing the problem and now the Vayrag continues to be repaired. That costs money too.
Finally, the ski-jumpos at their airfields are rather obvious indications of intent.
I believe they intedn to continue there massive builduo across the board, including towards carrier development...based on their words and their actions.
"I can't see the Chinese spending all that money on a carrier when they have so many bases around the world to develop--like in Panama and the Bahamas, for instance..."
True.
Yes, the Kuznetsov class is a ski-jump take-off carrier...but it is 60-65000 tons, and is considered full deck using the STOAL (Short take off arrested landing) the Russians developed for theirs.
Nope I cant do it LoL
Enterprise? Constitution?
Our fleet is dwindling and many such as Rumsfeld feel that we need a sleeker more agile military. and I do think there is merit to the arguement.
However I would not discount any threat from china
Anyone who doesn't believe that China will not be a major threat to the United States in the next few years needs to take a major dose of reality and consider the fact that China has been wooing Mexico and many of our southern neighbors for the past few years. A build-up of several million Chinese troops on our southern border could very well be in the cards in the next decade. This carrier, and any future brethren, would go a long way toward securing a supply corridor between China and Mexico. Capture a few small islands in the Central Pacific and the Chinese will have a series of airbases to provide air cover for their convoys.
Yes, our fleet could possibly stop this scenario, or at least put a damper on their plans, but a Pearl Harbor-style assault on the US bases at Pearl Harbor, San Diego, and Bremerton would cripple the US Pacific Fleet long enough for the land war to be decided one way or another.
The question is why? They have enough bases all around the world to project power virtually anywhere without the use of a vulnerable and expensive aircraft carrier. I just don't see it.
Nimitz class: Nimitz, Eisenhower (on RCOH status right now, though), Vinson, Roosevelt, Lincoln, Washington, Stennis, Truman, Ronald Reagan. The USS George H. W. Bush is building in the yards with a 2008 delivery date.
Kennedy class: USS John F. Kennedy
Enterprise class: USS Enterprise.
I *think* the USS Kitty Hawk (name ship of the class) is still in service (permanent forward deployment in Japan), while Constellation (of the same class) has been decommissioned.
Additionally, in the litoral waters within the 1st island chain, covered by their significant numbers of land based air, a couple of carriers backed up with large numbers of their new AEGIS-like DDG's, would present a much more difficult task for us.
All of the bravado not withstanding, we are foolish to underestimate them.
Take a look at the class description for Varyag. It's supposed to support a sub fleet by itself; it's not a primary offensive weapon like our Nimitz class.
And China is well underway on nuclear ballistic missle subs. Theve sucsesfully launched from a sub
They are mobile, much harder to target and allow us to project our presence globally, anytime, anywhere.
The Chinese desire the same capability...startying in their own backyard.
Good Man! Golden Citizen to you my friend.!
That looks supiciously like the early CVNX proposals....
But isn't an aircraft carrier for projecting power outside the bounds of land-based air?
Im still waiting for the USS Reagan to hit my hobby store. Hear its gonna cost $250. Worth it.
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