Posted on 08/16/2005 2:36:11 PM PDT by conservative in nyc
Anon (www): OK smart guys - with your "smell tests" and "Thats just flat out wrong" opinions shown above - I hope you don't mind, but let me clear up a few things - I was there and I lived through the ABLE DANGER nightmare.
First - yes - The lawyers involved in this (and similar projects) did interpret the 9-11 terrorists as "US persons" - so while you can second guess them all you want - but that was their "legal" call as wrong as it was and is. Unfortunately, the chain of command at SOCOM went along with them (and this, I expect, will be a topic that will become more clear in the near future).
And lawyers of the era also felt that any intelligence officer viewing open internet information for the purpose of intelligence collection automatically required that any "open source" information obtained be treated as if it was "intelligence information"...does this sound like idiocy to you? It did to me - and we fought it - and I was in meetings at the OSD level, with OSD laywers, that debated this - and I even briefed the DCI George Tenet on this issue relating to an internet project.
And yes, Virgina - we tried to tell the lawyers that since the data identified Atta and the others as linked to Al Qaeda, we should be able to collect on them based on SecState Albright's declaration of Al Qaeda as transnational terrorist threat to the US...well the lawyers did not agree...go figure...so we could not collect on them - and for political reasons - could not pass them to the FBI...I know because I brokered three meetings between the FBI and SOCOM to allow SOCOM to pass the informaton to the FBI. And, sadly, SOCOM cancelled them every time...
Oh - and as to your opinion that ABLE DANGER was a precursor to the IDC - you are flat out wrong - and obviously not keeping up with what is coming out in the press. ABLE DANGER partnered with LIWA/IDC to use the LIWA/IDC capability to obtain the data on Atta and the other 9-11 terrorists. I brokered the relationship... And - wrong again on the IDC using only "classified" databases - IDC used 2.5 terabytes (a whole hell of a lot of data) - all open source - to identify Atta and the others that have been identified. Classified data bases were only use to "confirm" the links subsequent to the open source data runs.
Oh - and DATA MINING is not overt or clandestine - it just "is" - it is something that is done with either open source or classified information. ABLE DANGER used an array of both open and close databases...
So...good try, gentlemen - good to see there is intellectual riggor here...but before you start doubting the story, perhaps you need to do better research. 8.12.2005 11:27pm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1464604/posts http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1464369/posts
I forgot that the first response doesn't automatically create hyperlinks. Here are the links to the other threads again:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1464604/posts
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1464369/posts
OK, I haven't been really getting all the details about this, so for me and the others who are trying to get the whole picture on this, regarding when, where, and what, is this man talking specifically about how the AD group had this info and the 9-11 commission refused it, or is he going to reveal that the AD group ID's Atta pre-9-11? Thanks for any answers.
God love these guys. I sure do. Let the chips fgall where they may. I want the truth. But the 'kill the messenger' crowd is alive and well, also. We're just getting started.
If he's Weldon's source, I'm assuming his answer will be "Gorelick!" Because I read an excerpt in which Weldon said Bush altered that within DAYS of getting in office.
Why do I have a feeling the DU will go quiet for a few minutes while this guy speaks, and then be flooded with "Distraction from Cindy Sheehan/Karl Rove!" posts?
Oh - and as to your opinion that ABLE DANGER was a precursor to the IDC - you are flat out wrong - and obviously not keeping up with what is coming out in the press. ABLE DANGER partnered with LIWA/IDC to use the LIWA/IDC capability to obtain the data on Atta and the other 9-11 terrorists. I brokered the relationship... And - wrong again on the IDC using only "classified" databases - IDC used 2.5 terabytes (a whole hell of a lot of data) - all open source - to identify Atta and the others that have been identified. Classified data bases were only use to "confirm" the links subsequent to the open source data runs.
He is saying(I think) they obtained all the info using open sources....not thru classified means.
My head hurts.
it will not matter what they do. if this plays out it will be bigger than the usual suspects.
Weldon for President - 2008
I like both of them.
Is Lt. Col. Anthony Shaffer going on Hannity tonight?
{{{{ ping }}}}
Wanted to make sure you saw this and added it to your list.
Thanks- I hadn't seen this.
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/17/terror/main781949.shtml
Shaffer's interview on CBS News. Broadband suggested.
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