‘One John Wayne dude’ tackles relief efforts - Lt. Gen. Russel L. Honoré (mayor Nagin term for him)

Stars and Stripes ^ | September 4, 2005 | Stars and Stripes

[SauronOfMordor]

I saw the clip. My recollection of it was the troops already had their weapons pointed down (which is how you are supposed to point them). He was yelling at some SWAT-Rambos to take their damn fingers off the triggers, and point the weapons down. I thought it entirely proper

[NittanyLion]

then why are you opining at all yourself?...If credentials matter, your endorsement of him doesn't matter a jot.

Agreed - my opinion doesn't matter a whit. Neither does yours.

If credentials teach you to send soldiers into a known sniper zone with slung rifles, then credentials are the enemy.

Says you. I'll trust the man on the scene to make those decisions over armchair generals, thanks very much.

This is America, remember? Generals take their orders from civilians. I'm a Stanford educated small business owner and that means I could probably do that job better than a civil servant for life. Got that?

I would've expected someone at Stanford to teach you that most decisions are best made at the local level, by those with the most information at hand. Guess you missed that day of class, eh?

[farmer18th]

some SWAT-Rambos to take their damn fingers off the triggers

I suspect there might be a few unprotected women in that city who would be happy to know those "Rambos" are around. It was the wrong message for public consumption, and an idiotic thing to do.

[farmer18th]

decisions are best made at the local level, by those with the most information at hand. Guess you missed that day of class, eh?

Actually, no I didn't, but you're missing the point. This was not "local" decision making. This was a general who wanted to grandstand in front of CNN's cameras for the entire nation to see. If there was a reason to sling weapons, it should have gone through the chain of command, without making his troops look like idiots in front of the press.

[NittanyLion]

This was a general who wanted to grandstand in front of CNN's cameras for the entire nation to see.

Unsubstantiated assertion.

If there was a reason to sling weapons, it should have gone through the chain of command, without making his troops look like idiots in front of the press.

First, no one looked like an idiot. That's your interpretation - I saw the same clip and didn't think anything of it.

Second, now you're arguing for more bureaucracy in the process? For that matter, how do you know the message wasn't previously communicated and disregarded by these troops?

I'll say it again: you don't have the required information to second guess Honore's actions at this time. You're making yourself look like a whining complainer by continuing down this road.

[farmer18th]

You're making yourself look like a whining complainer by continuing down this road.

We're a nation of whining complainers. Americans speak when something doesn't look right. China is the place for people who stand in line and do what they're told.

[NittanyLion]

We're a nation of whining complainers.

Speak for yourself.

Americans speak when something doesn't look right.

True enough. Too bad much of that speech is not based on anything other than their own deluded thinking.

[farmer18th]

True enough. Too bad much of that speech is not based on anything other than their own deluded thinking.

You just don't have the credentials to make that judgement. Just leave things to me...

[Virginia Ridgerunner]

Kerry's medals were purple hearts of dubious merit. Honore's are far more significant and documented, including a BRONZE STAR. See here for descriptions of some of his more prominent decorations and what it takes to earn them.
http://www.americal.org/awards/achv-svc.htm

[farmer18th]

Didn't Kerry receive a Silver Star?

[SauronOfMordor]

I suspect there might be a few unprotected women in that city who would be happy to know those "Rambos" are around.

Unless the Rambo gets startled while his finger is on the trigger and his gun goes off while pointed in her direction.

I'm not complaining about the presence of armed LEOs, I'm complaining about LEOs who seem to have had inadequate training in safe gun handling, which is what I think ticked off the general

[SauronOfMordor]

Just what part of sniper response includes "slinging weapons?"

On the video, I didn't see him make troops "sling" weapons. I saw him getting people to point weapons down.

There is a reason for this. The reason is so that if a gun goes off unintentionally, the bullet goes into the ground instead of into the guy next to you. If the gun is pointed up, the bullet may not hit the guy next to you, but it might hit somebody's kid on the second floor of the house you're standing next to (they were in an urban area).

This is the reason why troops are supposed to point their guns DOWN. On Iraq footage, you see troops on patrol, they are pointing their guns down except when actually firing at an enemy

[farmer18th]

I'm not complaining about the presence of armed LEOs, I'm complaining about LEOs who seem to have had inadequate training in safe gun handling, which is what I think ticked off the general

I didn't see anyone with finger on the trigger; the general wanted the weapons on their shoulder, "slung," which doesn't seem to be a "ready" state for a sniper zone. The clip I saw literally had him yelling profanities at troopers over and over again on this score, in clear range of CNNs camera crew. Forgive me, but something political was going on with this, and I don't care if the guy conquered Hamburger Hill by himself with Viet Cong guts in his teeth, I'd prefer to seen some of his rhetoric reserved for the rapists and the murderers.

[farmer18th]

In the clip I saw, he was clearly yelling "sling 'em."

[takbodan]

"What battles has he won? What faith does he profess? Tell me about this man who tells our volunteer soldiers to sling their weapons in the middle of a sniper zone.

He commanded 2nd ID in Korea which is a hardcore unit. Other posts have commented on serving as junior officers under Gen Honore' and they are gungho about him.

The MSM is all over the Bush Admin for everything under the sun on this disaster. Gen. Honore' is being smart to set an example.

Meanwhile you and your one handed computing need to lighten up.

[takbodan]

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1476447/posts

Other post regarding Lt General Honore'

[Repub Bub]

PING!!!!

[jbstrick]

"He's a coward."

Still think he is a coward?

[MattMa]

Yahoo news claims that Lt Gen Honore is from the Air Force. Never knew that the first Army was commanded by a AF General.

[farmer18th]

Anyone who takes the name of the Lord God almighty in vain, routinely, is more than just a coward. He's a godless fool.