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Jesuit Official Rips Expected Ban on Gays
AP Religion ^ | 9/30/2005 | RACHEL ZOLL

Posted on 09/30/2005 11:20:25 AM PDT by NormB

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To: oldironsides
The problems are not with the religion

I most certainly was not suggesting that there is. However in modern times the whole Jesuit order for the most part has abandoned the faith.

101 posted on 09/30/2005 1:17:01 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: Veto!

"I wisxh you were right. But a few nights ago on Catholic radio (EWTN), a caller phoned in with a question about how many seminarians are gay and the priest answering questions had to admit to 25-50%. So those are the church's own figures."

One priest, on a call-in, isn't necessarily giving the "church's own figures." And, I may still be right.


102 posted on 09/30/2005 1:18:06 PM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: spunkets

Very clever. Very pointed. It really speaks for itself, doesn't it?

But I thought you had to be at least 18 to post on FR. Welcome, young feller! You're really snarky.


103 posted on 09/30/2005 1:20:09 PM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: GarySpFc

Note this author's obsession with prestigious degrees and titles, and with fancy social connections. What the devil does any of that have to do with being a good priest or a good Catholic? Jesus was a carpenter. This woman's shallow values make her the condign person to praise a priest who obviously wasn't true to his vows.


104 posted on 09/30/2005 1:20:55 PM PDT by utahagen
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To: khnyny

Thanks. Godspeed.

Safe travel.


105 posted on 09/30/2005 1:21:15 PM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: markedman

The rules of the Roman Catholic Church on earth are largely made by the popes as Christ's Vicars on earth, whether enemies of the Roman Catholic Church like it or not. We are NOT subject to rules construed into "existence" by every or any "reformed" Tom, Dick and Harriet with a Bible and a few reading lessons.


106 posted on 09/30/2005 1:21:31 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: conserv13

If you actually have swallowed the lying piece of propaganda that 10% of the population is homosexual (now admitted by its propounders to be a lie) you really should study up.

It's all here at this link, categorized for your reading pleasure:

http://www.freerepublic.com/~scripter/index


107 posted on 09/30/2005 1:22:44 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: conserv13

He certainly doesn't love everything everyone says or does. He makes that explicity clear.


108 posted on 09/30/2005 1:24:14 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: NormB
The situation in the Catholic clergy is actually much worse than most people realize. Michale Rose wrote a great book on this subject a few years ago called Goodbye, Good Men.

It was actually written shortly before the current sexual abuse problems erupted. The subtitle is: How Liberalism Bought Corruption Into the Catholic Church. As usual, you can usually find liberalism at the root cause of most of the problems in our culture. I believe it was in this book that he described the pristhood as bascially evolving in recent decades into a "gay profession," much like male flight attendants. In many seminaries, "straight" candidtates are actually weeded out.

Here are a couple reviews of the book from Amazon. It was a real eyeopener for me, and I'd highly recommend it:

"Written shortly before the current scandal broke upon the Roman Catholic Church, Rose's book seems almost prophetic as he documents the systematic rejection of pious, orthodox seminary applicants in many dioceses and the encouragement of questionable attitudes and agendas. Rose, who was editor of St. Catherine Review for seven years, is the author of numerous articles, essays, and books that question the wisdom of contemporary liberal Catholicism. Here, he discusses the causes of the chronic priest shortage, including the misuse of psychological screening and what appears to be blatant discrimination against the kind of young men who were once considered ideal candidates for the vocation. He gives a disturbing glimpse behind the scenes that may go far in explaining the church's present difficulties. Based primarily on interviews, the book is carefully footnoted and contains a bibliography of sources cited and consulted. Highly recommended for anyone interested in this prominent topic, and for public and academic libraries." C. Robert Nixon, MLS, Lafayette, IN Copyright 2002 Cahners Business Information, Inc.

Book Description: "Goodbye, Good Men provides the real story behind the sex scandal currently rocking the Catholic church. Investigative reporter Michael Rose has conducted countless interviews and exhaustive research to uncover several out-of-control seminaries as the root cause of the scandal. While most pundits and critics are calling for liberalization of the Church in the wake of these scandals, Rose presents compelling evidence that liberal influence is the very cause of the crisis. The revelations in Goodbye, Good Men will shock the nation and ignite a firestorm of debate on the subject."

The book is available on Amazon.com

109 posted on 09/30/2005 1:26:11 PM PDT by GaryL
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To: hosepipe

No...if I am right, the samplings are worthless. That doesn't give the wrong results a sudden, meaningless, exponential jump. Jeesh.


110 posted on 09/30/2005 1:28:42 PM PDT by John Robertson (Safe Travel)
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To: ECM
Does anyone know if the Jesuits are still worth a damn ouside of the US?

Let's rephrase that, shall we?

Does anyone know if the Jesuits are still worth a damn?

Well, yes, there are a few.
Like Fr. Fessio, Fr. Mitch Pacwa, Fr. Spitzer in Gonzaga, and there MUST be a few others...

111 posted on 09/30/2005 1:29:20 PM PDT by It's me
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To: John O

Thanks for the ping! I will ping this out later.

(Good to see you, friend!)


112 posted on 09/30/2005 1:34:32 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: GarySpFc

The letter your post made several assertions which do not reflect objective truth. Here are just a couple:

"The God I pray to created all human beings. I believe he made some of them gay."

There is zero evidence that anyone is born "gay". Even homosexual activist researchers who have tried for years to prove that there is a "gay" gene, that people are born "gay", have had to admit they haven't found the evidence they're looking for. Here's a link that give a lot of information about the actual causes of homosexuality. I suggest you give it a read:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1420619/posts
Root Causes, Homosexual Consequences

"But homosexuality is not the same as pedophilia."

Consider this: roughly one third of all child molestation is same sex. Homosexuals are about 2% of the population, yet one third of child molestation is same sex. That should tell you something. If you read the article and info on the thread linked above, you'll find more information about homosexuality and child and adolescent molestation. A much higher percentage of homosexuals were sexually molested when young, and continue the practice as adults. Not all, not most - but a MUCH higher percentage than the general population. (Actually, a huge percentage of homosexuals were molested when young. It is definitely one of the most pervasive factors contributing to homosexuality.)

Before supporting homosexuality in the priesthood any more, you owe it to yourself and those reading this forum to educate yourself.


113 posted on 09/30/2005 1:34:56 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: markedman

Man that is some nasty reading.
I recommend it highly to anyone, especially Catholics.


114 posted on 09/30/2005 1:35:36 PM PDT by NormB (Yes, but watch your cookies!!)
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To: NormB

I wish Jesus would appear and comment on their use of His name. I'd like to hear Our Lord's opinion of that.


115 posted on 09/30/2005 1:35:44 PM PDT by Petronski (I thank God for Cyborg.)
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To: markedman
The Roman Catholic Church is a private organization with its own rules and decision-making process.

Who we decide to ordain and what standards for ordination we decide to enforce for our clergy is our business, not yours.

Right now we are trying to correct laxities that have led to atrocities, and we've adopted the reasonable position that if you exclude persons inclined to sodomy from positions of authority, then persons in authority will no longer sodomize people.

If you want to be pastored by a sodomy fan or participant, there are many religious organizations which would be more than happy to accomodate you.

116 posted on 09/30/2005 1:41:47 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: John O
""Homosexuality" is a mental disease evidenced only by the act of practicing same sex behavior.

It's neither a mental disease, nor does it require physical engagement. As I said before it's a noun and is the same sex version of the noun and opposite sex word heterosexual. John O doesn't get to define words.

"disease"

I thought the act was a sin?

"If someone never commits the act of homosexual behavior then they are not a 'homosexual'. Only the act gives definition to the disease"

Utterly ridiculous.

117 posted on 09/30/2005 1:42:35 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: John Robertson
"It really speaks for itself, doesn't it? "

Yes it does.

118 posted on 09/30/2005 1:43:28 PM PDT by spunkets
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To: conserv13
God loves everyone whether they are gay or not.

Well, sure He does. Absolutely and completely.

But, He certainly does not like the sins which we mere mortals commit. It keeps us away from a full relationship with Him.

Have you ever heard the saying, "Hate the sin, Love the sinner."

I thought so...

119 posted on 09/30/2005 1:47:49 PM PDT by It's me
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To: little jeremiah
Before supporting homosexuality in the priesthood any more, you owe it to yourself and those reading this forum to educate yourself.

You need to learn how to read before being so quick to criticize others. I in no way support homosexuality, but posted an article from The Kansas City Star, which showed a prominent Jesuit was a practicing homosexual and president of a Jesuit college. For your information I am a conservative theologian.
120 posted on 09/30/2005 1:54:58 PM PDT by GarySpFc (Sneakypete, De Oppresso Liber)
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To: NormB

Having gone to Jebbie schools, I can't say I'm surprised. Many "friends of Dorothy" in the Ignatian order.


121 posted on 09/30/2005 1:57:46 PM PDT by Clemenza (Gentlemen, Behold!)
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To: CWW

I've known a lot of effeminate priests in my short life. Not that there's anything wrong with it. ;-)


122 posted on 09/30/2005 1:58:53 PM PDT by Clemenza (Gentlemen, Behold!)
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To: BlackElk
"Your crack probably suggests that you are not Catholic in which case whether the Roman Catholic Church tolerates faggots in OUR priesthood is simply NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS."

You must be in bliss given all of the ignorance in what I read from your fellow Wahabbist Catholics.

But to enlighten you - although I understand that you might find that a little scary - I was born and raised in the Catholic Church and all its traditions.

My education from grammar to graduate school has been at Catholic institutions. I was an altar boy from the age of 8 until 14. My younger sister really is a 'Sister' of the SSND variety. My older brother was in the seminary. Our "family guru", a Jesuit PhD from India, has married all of my cousins and siblings - to other people - and baptized all of our children (with the exception of my Sister Sister, who doesn't have any)

For better or worse, Catholic I am and ignorant you are.
123 posted on 09/30/2005 2:01:12 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: BlackElk
BlakElk: "The rules of the Roman Catholic Church on earth are largely made by the popes as Christ's Vicars on earth, whether enemies of the Roman Catholic Church like it or not. We are NOT subject to rules construed nto "existence" by every or any "reformed" Tom, Dick and Harriet with a Bible and a few reading lessons."



BlackElk it is eminently clear that you have NO IDEA what you are talking about and OBVIOUSLY KNOW VERY LITTLE about the history of The Catholic Church.
124 posted on 09/30/2005 2:05:23 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: GarySpFc
[ For your information I am a conservative theologian. ]

Conservative; meaning what?..
Theologian; meaning what?..

Both terms are nebulous..

125 posted on 09/30/2005 2:06:40 PM PDT by hosepipe (This Propaganda has been edited to include not a small amount of Hyperbole..)
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To: wideawake
"Who we decide to ordain and what standards for ordination we decide to enforce for our clergy is our business, not yours."

WE? WE? Who are you kidding? YOU HAVE _NO_, I repeat _NO_ influence regarding the decisions as to who is ordained or not. In fact judging from your notes on the subject it is 'protectors' like you who helped facilitate the abuse that was going on because you chose to look the other way. To quote Bishop Galante, Bishop of Camden and close to JPII, "these priest defenders have betrayed the good priest, they have betrayed The Church and the have betrayed God."
126 posted on 09/30/2005 2:17:32 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: NormB

Scary isn't it?


127 posted on 09/30/2005 2:19:57 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: NormB

Scary isn't it?


128 posted on 09/30/2005 2:20:07 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: billbears

Amen!


129 posted on 09/30/2005 2:21:38 PM PDT by MamaB (mom to an angel-HSV, AL)
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To: Veto!
the priest answering questions had to admit to 25-50%. So those are the church's own figures.

You're not serious, are you? "The priest answering questions" (whose qualifications in sociometrics or whatever they are call it are --? ) pinpoints it at "25-50%", which you conclude represent "the church's own figures."

Estimates on this have been all over the place (Most -- but not all -- do fall within 25-50%). My own guess would be that the percentage varies widely among various dioceses/orders, and people giving estimates discuss those they're acquainted with. If anyone had any reliable figures (which they don't), the estimates couldn't possibly vary as much as they do.

130 posted on 09/30/2005 2:38:12 PM PDT by maryz
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To: maryz

"If anyone had any reliable figures (which they don't), the estimates couldn't possibly vary as much as they do."

Amen.


131 posted on 09/30/2005 2:40:21 PM PDT by markedman (Islam = surrender, and we will NEVER surrender!)
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To: markedman
WE? WE? Who are you kidding? YOU HAVE _NO_, I repeat _NO_ influence regarding the decisions as to who is ordained or not.

Apparently you are under the impression that prospective seminarians do not need recommendations when applying.

In fact judging from your notes on the subject it is 'protectors' like you who helped facilitate the abuse that was going on because you chose to look the other way.

That's a pretty strong personal accusation and I know you have no facts to back it up.

To quote Bishop Galante, Bishop of Camden and close to JPII, "these priest defenders have betrayed the good priest, they have betrayed The Church and the have betrayed God."

Says the bishop who defended two priests from his previous diocese that were involved in the "St. Sebastian's Angels" gay porn website.

Face facts: sodomites in the priesthood need to be zeroed out, period.

132 posted on 09/30/2005 2:42:07 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave troops and their Commander-in-Chief)
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To: GarySpFc

I checked my comments and read this comment to me, and your freepmail.

You posted a letter supporting homosexuals in the priesthood, without any comment by yourself, so anyone would assume that is your position. If you hold a different position, now's your chance to state it. If you don't support homosexuals in the priesthood, great! Join the club, so to speak. My position is clear, but I'm not sure about yours. If you are similarly opposed to homosexuals serving as priests, I publically apologize for wrongfully assuming that you did support them in the priesthood.

What is your position, then?


133 posted on 09/30/2005 2:53:09 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: markedman

VERY scary.
These guys are predators. The church leadership covered up for them. sickening.
Worst of all I only got about 1 10th the way through the document, I am not sure if I want to read the whole thing.


134 posted on 09/30/2005 2:58:09 PM PDT by NormB (Yes, but watch your cookies!!)
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To: Petronski
I'd like to hear Our Lord's opinion of [their use of His name]."

Me too. The secret is, of course, that they don't believe that He exists, so they are free to attribute to Him any feelings that appeal to them. Won't they be surprised...

135 posted on 09/30/2005 3:01:27 PM PDT by livius
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To: GarySpFc
which showed a prominent Jesuit was a practicing homosexual and president of a Jesuit college.

Initially, at the beginning of the homosexualization of the clergy and religious orders, the Franciscans had the highest percentage of AIDS deaths. Now that honor belongs to the Jesuits...

136 posted on 09/30/2005 3:04:48 PM PDT by livius
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To: GarySpFc

I have carefully re-read the letter you posted, all your comments and freepmails to me. I do indeed apologize for assuming that the editorial was a reflection of your viewpoint. Since I am not familiar with your comments, and you made no personal comment, I assumed wrongly that you posted the editorial in agreement with your viewpoint.

If I had read the entire thread, and seen your comment about "Goodbye Good Men" I would not have assumed you supported homosexuals in the priesthood.

[But you made that comment after so that wouldn't have helped.]

Anyway, I am sincerely sorry for my mistaken assumption, but surely you can see why I thought that, since you didn't state your own position. I see plenty of odd viewpoints on some of these threads.


137 posted on 09/30/2005 3:07:01 PM PDT by little jeremiah (A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, are incompatible with freedom. P. Henry)
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To: wideminded

No, that's not true.


138 posted on 09/30/2005 3:30:11 PM PDT by twigs
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To: wolfcreek
I live in an area (Austin) where I can't tell who is and who isn't anymore. I just know around here the % is much higher.

Gays tend to congregate in urban areas. It makes it easier to find other gays

139 posted on 09/30/2005 3:36:22 PM PDT by SauronOfMordor
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To: conserv13

Celibacy is all about denial of the natural appetites, how can it serve celibacy to characterize its dimensions?


140 posted on 09/30/2005 3:48:50 PM PDT by Old Professer (Fix the problem, not the blame!)
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To: John Robertson

I am not a Catholic-basher.

The difference between the 1-2% of actual gays in the population and the 10% often quotes comes, if I remember, from the fact that the sampling which resulted in the 10% figure was taken from a group of male prison inmates and dealt with whether they had ever had a homosexual relationship (Kinsey study? Masters & Johnson?). If anything, the 10% figure was probably low for male inmates.

We don't know the methodology of the studies identifed in Post 21, nor the agenda, if any, of the researchers. However, unless the studies were focused on a particular sampling that was guaranteed to skew the results (like inmates did for Kinsey's study), the percentage of homosexual priests is high -- probably 25% at the bottom end and quite likely higher than that. Thsse studies (particularly the one with a 75% response rate) are probably closer to the mark than Kinsey's study.

In the old days, it may really have been as simple as being a homosexual Cathololic and picking an occupation (for them, not necessary a calling) where you didn't have to justify not being married.

Once you had any meaningful percentage of homosexual priests and no strict control over it? Well, look at high school drama clubs, male Broadway dancers, male florists, male interior decorators, male fashion designers/critics, etc. Unless there IS a gay gene and it is tied to some kind of aesthetic taste and dancing ability, homosexuals seek out the safe harbor of other homosexuals. Wouldn't you?

Next, offer a situation where over at least the past thirty years, pedophilia has been hushed up by the Church and if not commonplace, just far too frequent to make anyone comfortable (just look at the size of the "deprogramming" center in New Mexico or Arizona).

The problems are anti-Catholics who use this to bash Catholics, and Catholic apolgists (I'm certainly not calling you one; I'm talking about those with whom I work) who refuse to believe there are more than one or two homosexual priests in the whole state.

In my volunteer position, I meet priests with some frequency for brief periods of time. It could be that delicate, sensitive men select the priesthood -- they are more focused on the spiritual than the earthly. On the other hand, if these men were not wearing the collar and I met them at work, I'd peg a large percentage of them as being gay. A significantly larger percentage of them than the LDS, Methodist and other religious leaders I meet (not than many Baptist churches run Scouting programs, so my cross-section of Baptist preachers with whom I have the same kind of brief, first-impression experience is much lower).

I've met three men who claimed to have dropped out of the seminary (sorry, don't remember what the Catholic church calls it, if not a seminary) because of the high number of homosexual men there. It could be just an excuse.

On the other hand, the Catholic clergy -- not the Catholic Church, not the Holy Father, not the wonderful Catholic men, women, and especially Scouts I deal with on a frequent basis -- may have developed into a significant "sanctuary" for homosexuals in the United States over the last 30 years.


141 posted on 09/30/2005 4:06:17 PM PDT by Scoutmaster (You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred)
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To: Pyro7480

Suppress the Jesuits (again).


142 posted on 09/30/2005 4:42:22 PM PDT by Maeve (Praying .......)
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To: jb6; NormB; TonyRo76; lightman; aberaussie
As an ELCA Lutheran, I know (either personally or by reputation) "gay" and lesbian pastors who are supposed to be celibate (as all gaysbian Lutheran pastors are supposed to be, especially after our latest ELCA assembly). They are always causing nothing but trouble, pushing the gaysbian and feminazi agenda and all sorts of heresy at the local, synodical, and churchwide level. This includes pushing for recognition and "blessing" of same-sex "unions", noncelebate gaysbian pastors, and feminazi (i.e., radical feminist) hymnals and liturgies. Then there are the industrial-strength heretics like the lesbian Barbara Lundblad, who denies almost every doctrine of the orthodox catholic church, and delivers smirking "sermons" that mock orthodox Christians. All of these gaysbian pastors are as thick as thieves with the heterodox "bishops" who are wrecking American Lutheranism with their radical-liberal theologies and political agendas.

However, I know one celebate homosexual (by inclination or "orientation") pastor who is completely orthodox, even to the point of calling "gay" sex a sin and actively opposing the entire gaysbian agenda. He does not consider himself "gay", and culurally or in terms of his acting on his homosexual desires, he is not.

As for the Roman Catholic Church, we have all read testimonies of heterosexual priests and seminarians who feel shut out by a "gay mafia". Then there is the "sex scandal", which overwhelmingly involves rogue priests preying on male teenagers or children. To say that this has noting to do with "gays" is a big lie!!!!

No orthodox catholic church body should have gaysbian clergy, whether celebate or not!!! However, there needs to be some way, if possible, to make room for the few homosexual clergy who are truly orthodox. And in the case of the Roman Catholic Church, there may well be the need to make up for the lost numbers by ordaining married men, starting with married deacons. This should be part of an effort to recover the heritage of the undivided orthodox catholic church, not a purely "practical" matter of numbers of priests.

143 posted on 09/30/2005 4:48:47 PM PDT by Honorary Serb (Kosovo is Serbia! Free Srpska! Abolish ICTY!)
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To: NormB
Chojnacki wrote in the letter, dated Monday, that he had participated in the funerals of several gay Jesuit clergy over the last few years.
"I find it insulting to demean their memory and their years of service by even hinting that they were unfit for priesthood because of their sexual orientation," he wrote.

I notice that he didn't mention most of these deaths were likely from AIDS.

The Jebbies have been hit hard with HIV/AIDS during the last 15-20 years because they were the first to go off the deep end and push the "if I think it's all right, then it's not a sin" idea. Their numbers have been dwindling, and many of the surviving priests and brothers are OLD. I'm hopeful that newer Jesuits will change the order to what it USED to be before the scourge of liberalism entered into its ranks.

144 posted on 09/30/2005 4:57:27 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: conserv13
I do think there is something wrong though if 25-50% of priests are gay, when only 10% of the general population is gay.

I've yet to see proof that the numbers of homosexual priests are that high. I'd think, with as many places I've lived and parishes that I've attended that I'd have met a bunch of them by now, and I haven't. I'm sure that there are plenty of them, because of the liberal push of the Vocations Boards over the last 20 years or so, but not in those numbers.

145 posted on 09/30/2005 5:00:53 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: AMERIKA

That's a lot of estimates; I still haven't seen any proof. It is notable, too, that some of these estimates are coming from people who are psychotherapists or counselors, who may have a distorted idea of the numbers because of the patients that they see.


146 posted on 09/30/2005 5:03:42 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: GarySpFc
The priests who were convicted of sexual assaults did not go though seminary in more recent years, when the church began to be more pro-active and open about dealing with the difficulties of celibacy.

My brother-in-law went through the Seminary in the mid to late 60's and was ordained in 1970. This would have been about the same time as many of the priests who have been accused or convicted of abuse. While he was still in the Seminary, the whole idea of celibacy began to be discarded among the liberals and feminists who were beginning to be appointed to the Vocations Boards and Seminary administrations.

Prior to that time, celibacy WAS discussed and the young men had the chance to talk about the difficulties of their choice, and they all knew what they were choosing. In the very late 60's the attitudes began to change, and the young men were no longer taught how to live the celibate life. The idea began to be floated that the Church was going to change the rules so they wouldn't have to deal with that 'outdated notion' anymore. My b-i-l and the men in his class tried to tell the younger men that those new notions were a load of frap, but the young men didn't want to listen. As a result, there were too many men in the 70's who were ordained under false pretenses. They believed, because they were told by the teachers and leaders in the Seminaries, that they would not have to abide by that vow of celibacy that they would be taking; that things would be changing.

How many of those priests who had sex with young men did so because of that notion that they were free to do what they wanted? There were some men who DID leave the Seminaries, and even the Priesthood when it became clear that they had believed a lie perpetrated by the liberals in the Seminaries. I wish the others who had no intention of ever remaining celibate had done the same.

147 posted on 09/30/2005 5:33:49 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The Church to confront the fact that no normal heterosexual male wants to sign up for a life of celibacy

Well there's a nice slap in the face to the thousands of men who are serving as priests, faithfully, as we speak.

As for your comment that there are MASSIVE numbers of homosexual priests, where is your proof? I've seen some statistics bandied about on this thread, but as Mark Twain once said, "There's lies, there's DAMN lies, and then there's STATISTICS.

148 posted on 09/30/2005 5:36:48 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: spunkets; twigs
>>"If a man is a celibate, then he is not homosexual. Homosexuality is an action. "

>>No. Otherwise hetero sexuality is an action, a verb. They are nouns.

Yeah, well what about this line from the cited article: "even among men preparing for the priesthood, an ambiguity both about the Church's teaching with regard to homosexuality and even whether some homosexual activity could be compatible with celibacy" [emphasis added]

149 posted on 09/30/2005 5:50:50 PM PDT by XEHRpa
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To: bkepley
Estimates of the numbers of gays in the priesthood vary from 25 percent to 50 percent

..and all of them in the U.S.

Have you conveniently overlooked the problems of pedophilia by the Catholic clergy in Canada, Ireland, and Australia?

Are you conveniently ignoring the fact that there are more homosexuals-per-square-foot in the Vatican City than in any other country in the world?

150 posted on 09/30/2005 6:23:23 PM PDT by mirabile_dictu
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