.40 vs .45 LAW ENFORCEMENT USE

[bramdawg]

Going onto a local PD in los angeles area. Have heard stories both about .40's and .45's what is really the difference. I know comfort is important put I want to know if I will be safe with a .40 or if I should go with .45. I want the best gun for my job.

[FFIGHTER]

It is always nice to have big bore when going for the boars. They are not to nice when they are wounded.

[PoorMuttly]

I used the Antiochian Hand Grenade once....it was hard on the tomatoes.

[P8riot]

I've been getting 1200 FPS out of 160gr FMJs. I've just been using factory CorBon ammo, haven't handloaded it yet. About the same felt recoil as 10mm in the same size gun. I actually prefer 10mm, it is a lot more flexible.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***The most horrible thing is a "failure to stop,"***


Wrong. The most horrible thing is a "click" instead of a bang.

[PoorMuttly]

BOY do I hate when that happens.

This is why I am considering putting bayonets on all my handguns.

O.K.....on everything.

[yarddog]

Wrong. The most horrible thing is a "click" instead of a bang.

Depends on which side of the gun you are on. I remember maybe thirty years ago, a guy tried to execute a cop in Mobile, Alabama. He pulled the trigger six times on a .357 magnum and got no shots.

Somehow they got the guy into custody and checked the gun. All six primers were dented. Just not quite enough force to ignite them. I bet the cop considered himself a little lucky.

[Travis McGee]

I don't think that will work, because the follower would have to be narrow to go up the top narrow part, and would be all over the place with slop at the bottom wide part.

But in answer to that need, lots of folks make and sell high cap single stack mags for .45s. A common approach is to keep your standard 7 or 8 round mag in your 1911, and carry a pair of (longer) ten round reload mags on the other side.

Once you're shooting, nobody cares about that extra inch of mag sticking out.

Some folks even carry 15 round reload mags for their .45s.

[Travis McGee]

Why do you consider the 10mm more flexible? More ammo choices, or some inherent ballistic qualities?

[jec1ny]

"As far as hole go in bodies from handgun rounds two things are true. Bigger is better, all placement being equal, and handgun rounds are puny in general.

The idea that .357 round(s) will immediately stop a threat is a fallacy that will get you killed."

I agree in part but also disagree in part. Your correct in noting the importance of shot placement. But bigger is not in all cases better. Power (velocity) and the cartridge type has significant impact. All of the various studies that I am familiar with suggest that the .357 mag 125 grain JHP has a one shot stopping percentage in the middle to high 90 percentile range. Thats better than .45 cal and 44 mag. That said, I strongly agree that handguns are not the weapon of choice in a gunfight. A shotgun in 12 gauge would be my first choice. But shotguns and rifles are not generally convenient for carry purposes and many people would be uncomfortable with ordinary citizens wondering the streets so obviously armed. Whether that discomfort is well founded or not is a debate I am not going to get into. The point is that handguns are for most people who need a defensive firearm, the weapon of choice for purely practical reasons. And of the many types and calibers of handguns out there I would argue that a revolver chambered for .357 mag is probably as good as your going to get for a combination of comfortable carry, concealability (where needed), functionality, and finally lethal stopping power. I freely admit that some people in certain jobs or with particular security concerns may have legitimate reasons for opting for another weapon, such as a semi-auto with a higher magazine capacity. But for most people the .357 mag is still at the top of my list for a defensive sidearm.

[Lion Den Dan]

Pardon my ignorance but what is a M1916A2?

[P8riot]

Actually not so much ammo choices, as the wide variety of bullet weights available for handloading. I've handloaded a variety of bullets weighing from 135gr to 205gr all with superior ballistics to the .45ACP and slightly better than the 400CorBon. The maximum reccomended bullet weight for the 400Corbon is 165gr. The 10mm has a bit more snap than the .45ACP. More like firing a .41 Magnum.

Also most semi auto handguns chambered for 10mm can also safely fire the .40SW using the same barrel (there are exceptions to this rule), and can be rebarrelled easily to handle the .357 Sig.

Revolvers chambered for 10mm (primarilly the S&W 610) can handle .40SW right out of the box. This is not the case with the Ruger Buckeye Special Blackhawk which depends on casing length for proper headspacing.

[MileHi]

It really is hot ammo.

The 125 .38+P was impressive.

[tx4guns]

"And there is no semi that has the stopping power of a .357 mag."

Wrong. 10mm auto can actually surpass .357 mag ballistics, with a bigger hole. Lots of LEOs are going back to the 10mm. Just saw one on the street the other day here in Houston on a Dep Sherrif's hip.

[Travis McGee]

I didn't know you could shoot .40S&W out of a 10mm barrel in a semi. Don't they headspace on the neck rim of the brass?

(PS, I just wish I got to shoot enough to answer some of these questions myself, drat it!!!)

[P8riot]

I didn't know you could shoot .40S&W out of a 10mm barrel in a semi. Don't they headspace on the neck rim of the brass?

That is correct. I should've added that .40SW shouldn't be fired through an auto pistol chambered for 10mm as a matter of practice, but in an emergency (and only an emergency) I've heard that it can be done (but I never have). It is never smart to use ammo that is different from what the pistol is chambered for. The S&W 610 revolver is different as it uses full or half moon clips and "headspaces" on the rim.

(PS, I just wish I got to shoot enough to answer some of these questions myself, drat it!!!)

I never get to shoot enough.

[Travis McGee]

I never get to shoot enough.

You and me both.

[yarddog]

Your post piqued my curiosity so I got out my loading manual and checked the cartridge case dimensions. Unfortunately my newest manual does not have the .40 S&W.

I got out my digital caliper and measured the case dimensions of the 10mm and the .40 S&W.

The 10mm measured .424 at the case head and .421 at the mouth. The .40 S&W measured .421 at the head and .420 at the mouth. That is darn near a straight walled case and I am surprised they feed as well as they do.

It did strike me that the .40 S&W (Both cases were R-P) is slightly smaller and would likely slide down the chamber a little. The extractor would probably keep it from going far but it really does sound dangerous. In fact really dangerous.

Like you, I might try it in a real emergency but nothing short of that.

[P8riot]

Yeah, I lurked into a conversation on a gun related board (don't remember which one) a few months ago (I guess) where the question came up, and several people there were saying that they had no problems doing it (on a regular basis) in their 10mm Glocks, but it just doesn't sound right to me. In a pinch I'd say yeah, but I'd never take it for granted that it was OK.

I don't shoot 10mm regularly, although I have several weapons chambered for it. My primary carry gun is a 9mm, so Im not likely to be in a position to have to depend on substituting a 40S&W for a 10mm.

[jec1ny]

"And there is no semi that has the stopping power of a .357 mag."

"Wrong. 10mm auto can actually surpass .357 mag ballistics, with a bigger hole. Lots of LEOs are going back to the 10mm. Just saw one on the street the other day here in Houston on a Dep Sherrif's hip."

I think you are equating the size of the hole with stopping power. But the statistical studies consistently put the .357 mag ahead of 10mm in 1 shot stops. See Marshall's study on this subject.

[dadwags]

The main issue hereis,IMHO, what caliber ammunition you have . :)