Posted on 10/26/2005 2:36:40 PM PDT by lizol
<>>like many other Americans, seem misinformed about the connection between Syrian and former Iraqi regimes and the islamic terrorism
Sssh, The Saudis and Pakistani are our allies, lol!
Source? That is really good ammo
Russia...attempting to create conditions of war in the middle east. Biblical signs are lining up.
> There are, and have been, more Dostoevskys than Tergenevs.
There was only one of each: one Dostoyevsky and one TUrgenev. BTW, have you read any?
> The Slavophiles in the majority have long deserved the epithet, scratch a Russian and a Tatar bleeds.
Again, have you read anything by Aksakov or Khomyakov, to discuss Slavophiles? Have you, at least, heard of them?
> scratch a Russian and a Tatar bleeds.
And "Tatar" is a swearword to you? Not discussing the racial and cultural issues (for the complexity thereof is out of place here), Genghis Khan has earned quite a reputation with you, so, why not?
> And please, do not talk about capitalism in Russia;
OK, though I wasn't going to anyway. Why should I discuss our internal affairs here?
> there is the very thinest of veneers at work there too
I'm just curious, whom exactly you mean.
> a nation where cronyism abounds.
Cronism is sad indeed, however, nothing peculiar. I suppose, you have heard the word "Hullyburton"?
> And when you talk of religiosity, what is it that you mean? The meaningless drone of Russian Orthodoxy,
Do you want me to defame whatever Protestant sect you belong to? I can. Easily.
Talking of religion, I mean calling your own momentary interests, sometimes even poorly understood, the will of God.
In which point the Americans sometimes look sadly similar to Moslem radicals. And may be unpleasantly surprised upon meeting Him.
> And what is Russian civilization?
Obviously, something you are not acquainted with.
> Is it the onion-domed churches created by Western architects,
The only (I suspect) such church you've seen, I mean St Basil's, was built by Russian architects.
However often (far from always) Russia used foreign or emigrant labour, there's nothing to feel embarassed of.
There is a country which is completely built by foreigners and immigrants, except some wigwams. If they are not embarassed, why should I be?
> the buildings of St. Petersburg created by Western architects,
Again -- some were Western, some pure Russians. Remember any native American architects?
Remember who prepared drafts for your capital, for example? Or made the Statue of Liberty?
> the tsarist gems created by French and worn by European monarchichal families?
If you mean the crown jewels, they've never left our country. If you mean things like some golden easter eggs, it's business: at good times you buy, at bad times, sell, then buy again.
> Or is the Kremlin Walls, the perfect personifaction of the walled personality defying all entry from foreign sources?
:)
Walls, the personification of personality.
First they ordered foreigners stuff, second, they defied all entry (evidently, they were being conservative and sick of multiculturalism). Weird.
> all entry from foreign sources
Foreign troops, for example.
Thank you very much, you've opened my eyes. When I saw tower and walls, I used to think it was a fortress or a castle (e.g. The Moscow Kremlin, The Tower of London or Windsor Castle). Now I realise it's a personification of some person.
Not fortifications but an example of xemophobia.
> Perhaps you don't really belong here at all,
Being a Russian, I don't.
> with your Krusgchevlite attitude.
I don't know, what you mean by Khrushchevite attitude. Nikita Khrushchev was a remarcable person, but his still remembered traits were revealed, mainly, in internal politics, of which you are hardly aware.
> You might want to reconsider your bellicosity.
MY bellicosity? Please re-read this thread.
> Russian isn't going to "bury" the USA;
Oh, you mean THAT. Well, not that time, but it was close at times, wasn't it? And who knows, what may come.
I'd rather not bury you, but you may force us.
> nor will you ever regain the old USSR "SUPERPOWER" status.
You sound so sure. But it is not up to you, or me. It's in God's hands.
> But since you seem to revel in barbarism,
Will it be too barbarous to suggest that you compare my few posts with those of my opponents in respect to logic, politeness, style etc., as those things are easily observable?
Unless you think that a civilised person has no need of manners, logic and literacy, as long as he has a Social Security number.
> And if you think that WESTERNISED" is a dirty word,
As such, taken abstractly, it isn't. It's rather meaningless. But in Russia, it is; not for the word itself but for people to whom it is applied.
If you have a chance to observe somebody from the 'thin veneer' closely, you may change your opinion. But watch your purse.
> then I suggest that you've been brainwashed to within an inch of your life.
BTW, the word 'brainwashing' isn't Russian. Its Russian equivalent is a calque from English.
We are not very good at brainwashing, which was the main reason for the collpse of the Soviet Union.
See the hint?
> And again, nobody here on FR, is pro multiculturalism;
Yes, I've already noticed. Neither am I.
Though some respect to other cultures could help you in your conservative cause. Honest. At the very least, it will reduce the risk of being wiped out by the conservatives of other cultures.
Which would be sad, as we conservatives and paranoics should stick together.
> a term you appear to not truly understand.
Just looked it up. Of course, I don't care about the right of Californian wetbacks not to speak English.
Is there a special word to refer to the right of other nations including their own cons to live as they please?
If there is, I've stretched the word 'multiculturalism' too far. Perhaps you can suggest a better term.
> When Peter made his European tour, your nation was living in conditions far removed from the then minimum level of technology.
Not true, though this view is still widespread. Just an example: before Peter the Great's tour our country exported expensive rifles. 'Rifles' means their barrels were rifled.
> you can always become an al Quaeda/Taliban type Muslim and allow the Chechnians to take over.
A false choise: surrender to you or to the Chechens. We choose neither.
> Is PRAVDA still filled with nothing with disinformation,
I am not sure, it is still printed. But your media aren't any better then Communist...
> he broke/ignored the SEVENTEEN UN resolutions, it had agreed to.
I didn't. The USA had never received the UN sanction to act against Iraq. It acted without one.
It was an aggression. Nothing to do with law.
> Ergo, the GULF WAR was still on!
Talk of wars and peace treaties is pointless, because the USA has never bothered to declare war on Iraq or sign peace treaties afterwards.
> Shock and Awe was what WE called the bombing of Baghdad; not searching for WMDs.
Yes, so what? Did I object to that?
> His country was not allowed, by Saddam, to be thoroughly searched.
He even let you into his residences.
> Saddam harbored and helped terrorists. He paid off the families of Palestine suicide bombers, as well.
If even the story about rewards to Palestine bombers' relations is true, it is Israeli business, not American.
And, congratulations, now you have a country of swarming suicide bombers.
> You're just sore that the Afghan and Taliban forces beat the USSR troops;
They never did.
Defeats happen (remember Somalia or Viet Nam), it's life, nothing to be sore about, but this is not the case.
> but American forces beat them all...just admit it.
And you haven't yet.
You have just fallen into a logical trap.
Because, if or when your troops leave Afghanistan and Iraq, as Soviet troops left Afghanistan,
they can now be declared beaten and fleeing. No matter haw hard you proclaim that they have filfilled their mission (as indeed had Soviet troops in Afghanistan).
But while your troops are there, it's obvious they are stuck and cannot vanquish the resistance.
You are beaten if you leave; you are beaten if you stay. No honourable way out. A trap. Two traps already, and you want more in Syria, Iran, North Korea and God knows where else.
The secret is to leave a lawful (not puppet) government, which can surrender. As did George Bush The First.
<>>like many other Americans, seem misinformed about the connection between Syrian and former Iraqi regimes and the islamic terrorism
> Sssh, The Saudis and Pakistani are our allies, lol!
Precisely. With such friends you need no enemies.
> I mean, of the 17 individuals identified by the U.S. State Department as having helped shape U.S. policy leading to the creation of the United Nations, all but one were later identified as secret members of the Communist Party USA
> Source? That is really good ammo
Think of your future. Some day (sooner than you think) you may need the protection of the law, and it won't be coming.
> Russia...attempting to create conditions of war in the middle east. Biblical signs are lining up.
Hmmm. Please tell how many soldiers and planes Russia have sent into Middle East. And compare that with the USA.
While Russia is "attempting to create conditions of war", your poor country is already fighting there.
Eager to fulfil the lined up binlical prophesies at own expence. When we finally create the conditions of war, there will be no biblical prophesies left for us.
Ooh.
I mean, of the 17 individuals identified by the U.S. State Department as having helped shape U.S. policy leading to the creation of the United Nations, all but one were later identified as secret members of the Communist Party USA
Source? That is really good ammo
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/19/23150.shtml
Thanks
So Russian culture is not civilized? I have news for you, Rus were Christian and were writing and reading long before the Germans or modern day French (Franks) or anything in the Nordic countries.
Also, by your statement I take it that the Hindus, Chinese and Japanese are uncivilized too? Wow, what a narrow definition of civilization. Guess the Romans and Greeks were not civilized either, since they were definitly not Western, since Western as a culture/civilization didn't even exist until around the 1400s.
Was that while we were busy bombing Christian Serbs for the Islamics, giving away a third of Christian Macedonia to the Islamics, arming Muslim Pakistan to the teeth while ignoring how it gave nuclear technology to Iran, Saudi Arabia, Lybia and Egypt? Or was it while we kept giving the PLO "gifts" and forcing the Israelies to commit national suicide?
Russia never benefitted from the European Renaissance that in the 15th century began to change the political, cultural and economic face of Europe. Russia was where it always was, sidelined in Asia, mired in a feudal social pattern that was already being shed by European states. Peter the Great, the atypical Russian tyrant and Catherine the Great, a German, tried to awaken the Rus to progress, but in the end they only purchased some fine European architects and European paintings while rejecting the incremental growth in democracy. (And please, let us hear no foolishness about the Duma!) One does of course have the tiresome Russian ballet, and Tchaikovsky, but if one wants to understand Russian pretensions to art and civilization there is only the need to visit the Hermitage. The truly Russian addition to that fine museum is truly mediocre. In the end, the Russians make superb thieves and copyists, e.g., aircraft, bombs, subways, submarines, etc., but their assistance to the growth of world civilization are few.
"The meaningless drone of Russian Orthodoxy, the supercilious pacifism of Tolstoi, or something else like a resurgence of the "Old Believers"? "
Excuse me; just what was that crack supposed to mean? All Westerners ought to pray that the "meaningless drone" of Holy Orthodoxy becomes louder and more widespread lest the Western culural/religious war among mainline Protestants and their faerie queen bishops, a Talibanesque fundamentalist wing and militant secularists result in the drone and shriek of the imam calling the faithful to "prayer" over every city in the West!
Rebuttel if I may: You need to read through the various Tsars, starting with Michael Romanov. Each and every Tsar initiated more and more Westernization. From openning of trade with the British (actually under Ivan Grozny) to Nichalos II. In particular, you need to note: Paul II, Elizabeth, Alexander I and II, Nicholas I (especially his early years) and Nicholas II. Russian sciences, music, etc were direct contributors to European culture for 400+ years.
As for the Duma, yes the Duma, please find an equivalent in Prussia, Austro-Hungary or early, pre WW1 Italy. Or for that matter the fact that France and Britian both banned the translation of the Edict on Labor Rights of Catherine the Great as they deamed them sedicious, since they were to liberal for the times.
As for:
One does of course have the tiresome Russian ballet, and Tchaikovsky, but if one wants to understand Russian pretensions to art and civilization there is only the need to visit the Hermitage. The truly Russian addition to that fine museum is truly mediocre. In the end, the Russians make superb thieves and copyists, e.g., aircraft, bombs, subways, submarines, etc., but their assistance to the growth of world civilization are few.
Shows nothing but your cultural chovanism. While you're welcome to your tunnel view, it is far from based in anything realistic.
Oh and by the way, those thieves invented the vacueem tube, the periodic chart, the helicopter, laser eye surgery, automatic grenade launchers, multiple rocket artillery systems and the physics behind stealth technology. Here's some more that those "asiatic apes" managed to pull out of their collective arses:
K.B. PIOTROVSKIJ. Synthetic rubber
G Marconi (of Italy) and A S Popov: Radio
Satelites with Sputnik I
Nikolai Benardos and Stanislav Olszewski: electric arc welder with a carbon electrode called the Electrogefest, considered the inventors of modern welding apparatus
Vladimir Zworykin invented the cathode-ray tube called the kinescope in 1929. The kinescope tube was sorely needed for television
Konstantin Tsiolkovsky: Three persons were particularly significant in the transition from the small rockets of the 19th century to the colossi of the space age: Konstantin E. Tsiolkovsky in Russia, Robert H. Goddard in the United States, and Hermann Oberth in Germany. It is generally agreed that priority goes to Tsiolkovsky (1857-1935), who apparently in his teens became interested in the possibility of spaceflight
Igor Sikorsky began work on helicopters as early as 1910. By 1940, Igor Sikorsky's successful VS-300 had become the model for all modern single-rotor helicopters.
Dmitri Mendeleev has been credited with the invention of the periodic table.
The problem with Russia is not so much that that it lacks civilization and culture as much as there are occasions when it behaves in a . . . well . . . nekultura manner. Kind of like the Texas Aggies. There is much admirable about them, yet every once in a while they do something that underscores every bad stereotype about them.
I believe the Russian pledge to bust UN sanctions against Syria is an example of such a lapse.
Wouldn't the Muslims have a much easier time taking over the "-istans" in Asia and Russia than they would taking over Europe?
This is a complex issue. Renaissance started when the Byzantine scholars began to migrate to Italy at the time of Turkish takeover of the remains of Christian Rome/Greece in the East.
Byzantine Greco-Romans NEVER were in need Renaissance since they never lost Greek language or culture. Russia was the client nation of Byzantine culture and at that time still learning. Importing of Renaissance would be an absurdity. Only later when the Greek center started to decline under Muslim yoke Russians were forced to turn to West for secular learning (under Peter the Great).
Evil is as evil does..
"The people are primitives, drunks, and wastrels; don't belive it? Check the Russian immigrant populations in Brooklyn."
That's a racist slur. And since that population is almost all Jewish I will add anti-Semitic as well.
I know that community quite well and nothing could be further from the truth.
"means no more than the fact there are intelligent scientists in Kashmir."
Another slur.
"and little of the love of Christ"
Exactly what "love of Christ" are you showing here?
"It's funny; people don't realise that they are not only being politically incorrect and racist, but much, much worse -- anti-Semitic. For those ghettos are populated by Jews, not Russians."
Exactly so.
And further Brighton Beach is a fine community where many first generation Russian Jews struggle to integrate into the US which they do quite sucessfully.
Or maybe they do realize and use the word "Russians" as a code word for Jews. After all slurring Russians is OK.
Excuse me; just what was that crack supposed to mean?
It means that Mr. gaspar think that if HE does not understand something it has no meaning.
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