Posted on 10/27/2005 1:06:59 PM PDT by swarthyguy
The problem is, of course, oil. Kurdistan has oil, Shia Iraq has oil, Sunni Iraq does not not. By which moral compulsion, however, can Sunni Iraq demand a share of the oil if the others dont want Sunnis to be part of the country? Which in any case was made into a "country" by the British after WWI: 3 provinces of the Ottoman Empire that nothing to do with each other were combined by the British to ensure access to oil. The British kept the minority Sunnis on as overlords, just as the Turks had done. Their ascendancy has come from imperial dispensations, not from any natural process such as numbers.
We have repeatedly suggested: the US should indeed break up Iraq. US had no hesitation to break up Yugoslavia into the original six states and let each become its own country. Yugoslavia, too, was a post WW1 creation. US/NATO/EU did this because they figured six countries would be more stable than one - there are also sorts of quite ignoble other reasons, but lets stick to the point here.
So how come six Balkans states are acceptable but 3 Iraq states are not? How come the US found it acceptable to see India breakup into India and Pakistan, and then Pakistan breakup into Pakistan and Bangladesh, and would like nothing better than an independent Kashmir, which would mean breaking up India and Pakistan still further, and would result, inevitably, in the final breakup of Pakistan itself. And how come the breakup of the Soviet Union is welcomed, and the drive to break up Russia has only just begun?
After breaking Iraq up - let us say, rather, accepting the inevitable, the US should: strongly protect the Sunni state and support it to grow strong; maintain close relations with the Kurd State, acting as its protector against Turkey, and maintain principled relations with the Shia state, not seeking to sway it one way or the other, but helping it to stay independent of Iran.
Okay, so your editor hears the litanies of "we can't do this because". Right. Turkey will go berserk, Saudi will go berserk, Iran will go berserk with joy, etc etc. All valid points.
But consider this: the success of a world empire lies not in imposing what Washington wants. It lies, rather, in Washington working with the various subordinate states to achieve a balance where both sides are happy.
If Washington does this, the American world empire will last, metaphorically, for a 1000 years. If, however, it persists on incorrect calculations of its interests - which it is doing by forcing Iraq into staying a unitary state and other follies we don't think Washington will fall into, then between 2030-2050, America can fuggedabhatit.
If the Itaqis decide that's what they want to do down the road, I don't have a problem with it. As for the 22% being concentrated in one area, that's fine. If they keep this up the 78% that live in the other areas are going to kick their ass eventually.
The minority has been given a place at the table. They have the opportunity to form coalitions with others. If they can't do that, then they don't deserve a place at the table.
It's my take that most of this terrorism is being committed by foreign nationals.
"Even if we don't break it up now, I imagine the three parties will break it up later."
Well first off, WE arent going to break up anything, that is for Iraqis to decide.
"support were uniform across the country"
Are you speaking about population centers like Chicago or New York that vote so very different than the rest of their respective states?
We do it here and they can do it there. With ballots instead of carbombs.
Well said.
And even if not, we would ruin America's credibility, as we promised virtually every nation in the region that we would seek to maintain the territorial integrity of Iraq. This is a deeply stupid idea, IMHO.
Very impressive. You aren't even original. Someone else used it already.
RIGHT ON!
I would ask those Cindy sheehan types HOW MANY AMERICAN CIVILIANS must die at the hands of terrorists, in addition how many English, Spanish, Aussie,Italian Etc Etc Etc...CIVILIANS must DIE at the hands of terrorists before they sign on to FIGHT BACK???????
>FIGHT BACK
Iraq attacked us? Okeydokee. It helps when fighting back to go after those who actually attacked you.
>this stupid thread.
And your presence on it signifies what, exactly?
yep.
Here's the deal. If we DON'T stay and fight it out and GET IT RIGHT, we WILL be back there in a few years regardless.
NUKES ARE NOT A FRIGGIN OPTION (just ask the military) AND I WISH PEOPLE WOULD REALIZE THIS ON THIS DAMNED FORUM!!
A desire to see some of the article's points discussed, which sadly, too few seem to care about, instead impugning one's motives and kindergartenish name calling, like you did.
Guess you don't get the point about discussion forums.
bringing up Osama?
Asking how many more troops have to die as if that justifies an action?
Gee that isn't straight out of the Sheehan book of war protesting or anything.
And the article has NO merit. It's tactically retarded and would also be a strategic DISASTER for the region.
But you don't care. You want to hur hur hur debate right?
Give me a break.
You arm chair generals are all the same.
But that isn't why we lost people. We did that to ensure that Saddam could not use state means to support a terror campaign in the United States. And we succeeded in that, and what remains in the way of a new government is what is most likely to succeed in keeping Iraq's state means out of the hands of terrorists. I honestly believe that democracy, with all its attendent risk of failure, is still more likely to succeed than any imposed solution.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I hear you suggesting is that we should break Iraq up and then leave. Is this solution, with its attendant and inevitable warring, more or less likely than democracy to result in countries that will support terror organizations? If less, then we should follow your recommended course of action. But I think it's more, much more. IMHO, of course.
Too bad you don't seem to be on the same side as the military is on this issue. They aren't begging to come home. They aren't begging to end the sacrifices.
Morale is high and they have a sense of purpose.
Too bad you don't support them.
>>>Are you speaking about population centers like Chicago or New York that vote so very different than the rest of their respective states? We do it here and they can do it there.
First, the difference in support for the President Bush in the 2004 election were not as distinct as those in the recent Iraqi election. In NYC, W received 25% of the vote. In the rest of the state he received 48%. In Shia areas of Iraq the Constitution received over 90% approval. In Sunni areas, it received less than 10% approval. That is a considerably larger difference.
Second, having lived in Upstate NY, I know that if given the option, they would probably choose separation from the NY metropolitan area. But the constitution and the Congress prevent that from happening.
Third, I'm not advocating breaking Iraq up. I'm just not hopeful that it will remain a unified country once we leave.
The only people that would gain from that are the Iranians and the Syrians.
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