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U.S. Ship In N. Korea (USS Pueblo) Get Her Back
The Washington Times ^ | 10/29/05 | Andrew Salmon

Posted on 10/29/2005 7:35:16 PM PDT by takbodan

PYONGYANG, North Korea -- In the center of the North Korean capital floats a commissioned vessel of the U.S. Navy. The USS Pueblo, a spy ship captured by the North in 1968, is moored on a bank of the Daedong River. Despite quiet U.S. moves in recent years to secure its return, the vessel still functions as tourist attraction, trophy and symbol of anti-American struggle.

(Excerpt) Read more at washingtontimes.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs
KEYWORDS: northkorea; usn; usspueblo
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This ship should be taken back or blown to smithereens.
1 posted on 10/29/2005 7:35:17 PM PDT by takbodan
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To: takbodan

A horrible symbol of America.

Taken from the US under JBJ and sitting in a N. Korean harbor eight years under Clinton.

What a Shame.


2 posted on 10/29/2005 7:39:03 PM PDT by H. Paul Pressler IV
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To: takbodan

I was just going to say, drop a cople JDAM's on her and play taps. The honorable way to go! Not in the hands of the enemy!

"NEVER GIVE UP THE SHIP!"


3 posted on 10/29/2005 7:39:22 PM PDT by Danae (Most Liberals don't drink the Kool-aide, they are licking the powder right out of the packet.)
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To: takbodan

No more food or aid until this ship is returned.


4 posted on 10/29/2005 7:40:39 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Yes I backed over the vampire, but I swear I didn't see it in my rearview mirror)
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To: takbodan

I read that the ship was moored at Wonsan, on the east coast, from 1968 until the late 1990's, when it was disguised as a freighter and moved to the west coast so it could be put on display near the capital. Given our surveillance capabilities, it's amazing that they could have pulled this off--but remember, this happened during Clinton's presidency.


5 posted on 10/29/2005 7:47:11 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: takbodan; ASA Vet; Grampa Dave
a symbol of the anti-American struggle piracy on the high seas"


Actually, Pueblo could still serve as a target beacon.
6 posted on 10/29/2005 7:48:45 PM PDT by BIGLOOK (I once opposed keelhauling but recently have come to my senses.)
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To: takbodan

Its probably the most modern ship in their Navy.


7 posted on 10/29/2005 7:52:23 PM PDT by Husker24
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To: takbodan

Would be interesting way to start a war - give them an untimatum, then just go in and take it, accidentally taking the capital along the way for "security perimeter".

Only half kidding.


8 posted on 10/29/2005 7:57:06 PM PDT by Mr. Rational (God gave me a brain and expects me to use it)
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To: Danae
I was just going to say, drop a cople JDAM's on her and play taps. The honorable way to go! Not in the hands of the enemy!

Back in '68, I was arguing that we should destroy the ship if we couldn't get it back--as we did with the frigate USS Philadelphia in 1804, following its capture by Tripolitan pirates.

9 posted on 10/29/2005 7:57:23 PM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: takbodan

Take her out to some pinch point and scuttle 'er.


10 posted on 10/29/2005 7:58:34 PM PDT by Paladin2 (If the political indictment is from Fitz, the jury always acquits.)
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV
Putting quite a bit of spin on that one.

sitting in a N. Korean harbor eight years under Clinton.

Since the Pueblo was seized in an act of piracy, the Dems held power for 13 years, the Repubs for 24.

Your statement makes as much sense as saying 'eight years under Reagan', or 'almost 5 years under GWB'.

11 posted on 10/29/2005 7:59:46 PM PDT by PAR35
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To: Danae

They were not supposed to give up the ship.


12 posted on 10/29/2005 8:00:50 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV

Not a Clinton fan, but it wasn't like Nixon, Ford, Reagan, Bush 41, or Bush 43 have done anything either.


13 posted on 10/29/2005 8:02:05 PM PDT by Zeroisanumber
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To: Fiji Hill

Yeah, but lets wait until that little dog-eating, Liberace-wig and high heel wearing pudgy troll visits the ship.


14 posted on 10/29/2005 8:02:43 PM PDT by Brofholdonow
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To: cynicom

Neither are we.

Time to put her out of her misery and freak out lil'Kim with the precision munition as well. Might push the little bastard over the edge though, if he hasn't already gone over that is...


15 posted on 10/29/2005 8:04:01 PM PDT by Danae (Most Liberals don't drink the Kool-aide, they are licking the powder right out of the packet.)
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To: H. Paul Pressler IV

Do you mean under LBJ?


16 posted on 10/29/2005 8:04:32 PM PDT by AmericaUnite
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To: takbodan

NKorea ain't gonna give her up.

BTW did you know that her capture declassified what we now know as GPS?

Only 12 "birds' back then and known as SatNav.


17 posted on 10/29/2005 8:05:51 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cynicom

"They were not supposed to give up the ship."

Huh? Are you aware of the circumstances?


18 posted on 10/29/2005 8:08:56 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

Yep....


19 posted on 10/29/2005 8:10:16 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

Really? Then why this as an outcome?

"A naval inquiry into the Pueblo incident led to no apparent disciplinary action for Bucher or any of his men."


20 posted on 10/29/2005 8:15:00 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

In the background, as is usual the military guaranteed armed help if for any reason it was needed. It was an empty promise..


21 posted on 10/29/2005 8:17:33 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

BTW - http://www.mishalov.com/pueblo.html


22 posted on 10/29/2005 8:17:38 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

Bucher made that plain time after time.


23 posted on 10/29/2005 8:19:17 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Mr. Rational
Would be interesting way to start a war - give them an untimatum, then just go in and take it, accidentally taking the capital along the way for "security perimeter". Only half kidding.

Not kidding at all

Launch a First Strike.

24 posted on 10/29/2005 8:19:20 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: takbodan

If any country needed a demonstration of precision aerial bombing it would be this one at this time.


25 posted on 10/29/2005 8:19:49 PM PDT by Last Dakotan
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To: Bobibutu

In that business, the military makes a lot of promises. One rigid rule however is that the acft or ship NEVER fall into enemy hands.


26 posted on 10/29/2005 8:21:24 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

"In the background, as is usual the military guaranteed armed help if for any reason it was needed. It was an empty promise.."

Yeah - the nearest Carrier had all planes on deck armed with nukes - Duh.


27 posted on 10/29/2005 8:21:54 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: takbodan

They need to sink it, we don't give up downed war planes. Send a anti-ship missile into it at midnite so we only kill north korean soldiers.


28 posted on 10/29/2005 8:24:36 PM PDT by Jewelsetter
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To: takbodan

Let's trade them even-up for the Clinton lie-brary.


29 posted on 10/29/2005 8:25:14 PM PDT by Nachoman
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To: takbodan

We should sink the ship. As I understand it the North Koreans beat our men and treated them shamefully.


30 posted on 10/29/2005 8:26:12 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Bobibutu

"It's a bad sign that the Western intelligence experts who monitor North Korean ports and examine satellite images didn't notice that the Pueblo had moved. President Bush's "refusal to engage North Korea, as the Clinton administration had done, has already led the North to revive plutonium production. Mr. Bush's backup plan is to stop North Korean nuclear proliferation by intercepting nuclear materials as they leave the country - but that's wishful thinking. If we couldn't detect the transfer of a famous 176-foot ship, it's ludicrous to think we could stop the smuggling of a grapefruit-size chunk of plutonium."

Thanks for the link and pictures. Kristoff gives the impression the ship sailed to Pyongyang under while Bush was in power. It sailed in 1999 while clinton was in office.


31 posted on 10/29/2005 8:27:01 PM PDT by takbodan (.)
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To: af_vet_1981
Actually it would be nice to blow it up with a cruise missile or six and then send ol Kim a message, "We have long memories, and never ever forget."
32 posted on 10/29/2005 8:27:02 PM PDT by Americanexpat (A strong democracy through citizen oversight.)
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To: cynicom
They were not supposed to give up the ship.

The crew had only two poorly maintained 50 cal machine guns and their side arms to defend the ship. The jackass who permitted the ship to leave in that condition worked across the desk from my dad at the Pentagon.

33 posted on 10/29/2005 8:27:49 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Bobibutu

"It's a bad sign that the Western intelligence experts who monitor North Korean ports and examine satellite images didn't notice that the Pueblo had moved. President Bush's "refusal to engage North Korea, as the Clinton administration had done, has already led the North to revive plutonium production. Mr. Bush's backup plan is to stop North Korean nuclear proliferation by intercepting nuclear materials as they leave the country - but that's wishful thinking. If we couldn't detect the transfer of a famous 176-foot ship, it's ludicrous to think we could stop the smuggling of a grapefruit-size chunk of plutonium."

Thanks for the link and pictures. Kristoff gives the impression the ship sailed to Pyongyang under while Bush was in power. It sailed in 1999 while clinton was in office.


34 posted on 10/29/2005 8:27:51 PM PDT by takbodan (.)
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To: cynicom
They were not supposed to give up the ship.

I don't think our men had much of a choice. Air support wasn't scrambled in time. It was kind of a stark choice the North Koreans gave them.

35 posted on 10/29/2005 8:27:58 PM PDT by Zack Nguyen
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To: Bobibutu
Long ago, one time we were guaranteed that if shot down in enemy territory, and survived, we would be snagged out on a high line. Now you know we bought that, don't you?
36 posted on 10/29/2005 8:28:07 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

Ah - we can get into a peeing match - but what for? It was a blunder that we learned from. Butcher passed away a few years ago - lived in North County San Diego - a good man.

I agree - never give up the ship - however when faced with what he was in real time - I cut him a lot of slack. I think he did the right thing and saved his crew.

We can build ships and aircraft - what does it take to replace a trained man or woman?


37 posted on 10/29/2005 8:28:53 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Americanexpat
If we strike, we should strike to sever the head from the snake. It is reckless to lob cruise missiles at a tent or a tourist ship. Any strike should be decisive, strategic, and ... personal.
38 posted on 10/29/2005 8:30:50 PM PDT by af_vet_1981
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To: takbodan

"It's a bad sign that the Western intelligence experts who monitor North Korean ports and examine satellite images didn't notice that the Pueblo had moved"

File under "lessons learned" and cross yur fingers.


39 posted on 10/29/2005 8:30:52 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

I was all with Bucher...I just know what you are told.


40 posted on 10/29/2005 8:31:48 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Myrddin

"The jackass who permitted the ship to leave in that condition worked across the desk from my dad at the Pentagon."

It must weigh hevily on his soul - we still have ships going out underarmed.


41 posted on 10/29/2005 8:33:35 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

Oddly enough in that business, the men are the MOST expendable. They are easily replaced.


42 posted on 10/29/2005 8:33:59 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: cynicom

"I was all with Bucher...I just know what you are told."

Please expand ...


43 posted on 10/29/2005 8:36:16 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: Bobibutu

Did you read my post re the high line????


44 posted on 10/29/2005 8:37:09 PM PDT by cynicom
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To: Bobibutu
It must weigh hevily on his soul - we still have ships going out underarmed.

The guy who allowed it was promoted to captain. There were 3 stars in the office who could have intervened and did not.

45 posted on 10/29/2005 8:38:38 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: takbodan

46 posted on 10/29/2005 8:41:29 PM PDT by Bobalu (This is not the tag line you are looking for.....move along (waves hand))
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To: Bobibutu
Yeah - the nearest Carrier had all planes on deck armed with nukes - Duh.

The nearest Carrier wasn't anywhere near close enough to assist. It steamed at flank speed toward the area, but the Pueblo was already in a NK port, and the crew removed by the time the Carrier was on station.

47 posted on 10/29/2005 8:45:38 PM PDT by ASA Vet (Those who know don't talk, those who talk don't know.)
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To: Myrddin

"The guy who allowed it was promoted to captain. There were 3 stars in the office who could have intervened and did not."

To quote someone else on FR - "Just Damn"


48 posted on 10/29/2005 8:46:40 PM PDT by Bobibutu
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To: cynicom
Long ago, one time we were guaranteed that if shot down in enemy territory, and survived, we would be snagged out on a high line. Now you know we bought that, don't you?

That approach might work for one or two guys with the physical prowess to get to an extraction point and tolerate the "thrill" of being whipped off the ground by a passing aircraft. It is a non-sequitur when an entire ship's crew is captured.

Francis Gary Powers didn't follow the prescribed procedure when his U-2 was shotdown. It's easy to second guess another man's choices when you aren't the party in the hot seat.

49 posted on 10/29/2005 8:47:28 PM PDT by Myrddin
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To: Bobibutu
Saving himself and the crew is not in the books. Nowhere.

The P3 crew that landed in China was a disgrace but were given medals. The aircraft commander is no longer in the Navy.

50 posted on 10/29/2005 8:50:04 PM PDT by cynicom
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