Outrage over honor for cop-killer inmate

Star Ledger ^ | 10.29.05 | MIKE FRASSINELLI

[ErnBatavia]

[babygene]

"I'm lucky it never happened again but if it happened once to me it could happen twice."

Yes it could. And it could happen 5 times to one person as well. However the odds are against it in most of the country.

[marktwain]

Even if your numbers are right, you have to admit that that's pretty bad. Especially since one at least stands a chance of defending one's self against a criminal.You can't against a cop. You can also at least avoid criminals (for the most part).

I don't think it is unreasonable for cops to defend themselves, and a ratio of two cops being killed by criminals for each innocent person being killed by cops indicates to me, on a very basic and pragmatic level, that society is coming out on top here. It is impossible to achieve, and unreasonable to expect, perfection.

Of all of the acquaintances I have had in my long lifetime,I have known of 6 or 7 that have had guns pointed at them by police (all traffic stops, except for one). ZERO by a criminals.

Using your criteria, I have searched my memory and found one relative who had a cop point a gun at him (he was being arrested) and one who was assaulted during an armed robbery (two criminals pointed guns at him and a friend). To be absolutely truthful, I have had quite a few citizens point guns at me, but they were all unintentional mistakes, and I don't think that is what you are talking about.

You are quite correct when you note that crime is essentially confined to a small area of the country. John Lott notes that 70% of murders occur in 3.5% of the counties in the country.

I find that most cops are decent human beings who suffer from the occupational hazard of being suspicious of most people they come into contact with. It is especially bad in the large metropolitan areas, which is why there is a certain American genius in having most cops be locally controlled.

[wtc911]

The fact is, that cops, IMHO are just criminals that work for the state.

===============================================

Opinions are not facts (which are provable by data - got any?), but they are in fact like a**holes...everyone's got one.

[Roots]

No crap! It's called cause-and-effect... your feeling of "safeness" is a product of the cops, making that statistic even possible... are you ignoring everything I'm saying just so you can keep believing that all cops are crooked and all Red states don't need them?

[babygene]

It is MHO (my humble opinion) that I do not need a cop to protect me from a criminal. I'm perfectly capable of protecting myself and my family. Heck, I don't even lock my doors at night...

[Time4Atlas2Shrug]

"Of all of the acquaintances I have had in my long lifetime,I have known of 6 or 7 that have had guns pointed at them by police (all traffic stops, except for one)."

Are you sure it wasn't 10 or 20 times? ;)

[Time4Atlas2Shrug]

"It is MHO (my humble opinion) that I do not need a cop to protect me from a criminal. I'm perfectly capable of protecting myself and my family. Heck, I don't even lock my doors at night..."

If a drunk-driver killed your spouse would you want the cops to stay out of it then, or would you prefer to find the perp yourself and pop 'em?

[babygene]

"Are you sure it wasn't 10 or 20 times? ;)"

LOLs

If a drunk-driver killed your spouse would you want the cops to stay out of it then, or would you prefer to find the perp yourself and pop 'em?

I think I see what your problem is... You expect the 100,000 or so laws that are on the books today to get revenge for you.

My opinion is that we would do well to reduce the number of commandments to 10, and society would be better off.

Someone who accidentally kills your spouse because he is stupid or tired or sleepy or a poor driver, or, yes, drunk... does not deserve to be "popped", as you put it... I think you are a closet liberal.

[Time4Atlas2Shrug]

Just for the sake of argument - if we reduce the number of commandments to ten, who then would enforce them, God only? That, my friend, is called anarchy.

You see, your problem is that you do not recognize that those 100,000 laws on the books are there, not for personal revenge, but to enforce, presumably for the protection of society. Now one could easily argue against the necessity of many of the laws that exist, but that is a different issue.

And you, my dear, are the one exibiting unfortunate liberal leanings. Perhaps you joined the chorus demoaning the "pigs" in your college years. Remember, conservatives usually support the concept of law and order.

Yet again, you did not respond directly to a comment I posited: Would you expect law enforcement to investigate a crime of which you or your family was a victim, or would you conduct it on your own, vigilante-style, hunting down the perp and popping him/her? No silly arguments are allowed, such as accusing me of using laws for revenge - that does not answer the question.

[babygene]

"You see, your problem is that you do not recognize that those 100,000 laws on the books are there, not for personal revenge, but to enforce, presumably for the protection of society. Now one could easily argue against the necessity of many of the laws that exist, but that is a different issue."

First of all I feel uncomfortable with you calling me "dear". I'm a 60 year old man and from your writing style I suspect you are a man as well. "Gene" is a masculine spelling and it is short for Eugene.

Secondly, 40 or so years ago when I was in college, police behaved a lot differently than they do today. They have earned my disrespect over the last two decades (IMHO). 40 years ago police were there to help and serve our citizens. I don't believe it is any longer their function. I had to laugh when they lumped them in with the firemen after 9-11, as "heroes". Firemen will go into a burning building to rescue someone, risking their life. Police (generally) will not put themselves at risk. How many kids with toy guns are we going to allow them to shoot? That's not the way it was 40 years ago...

Thirdly, although I'm conservative on most issues and liberal on none, on some issues I'm libertarian. I have performed my civic duty on juries, even as a foreman in a murder trial. I don't support capitol punishment, not because I object to killing (some people just need killing), but because our justice system is neither honest or accurate. The vast majority of our fellow citizens who end up on juries are so stupid that they can't understand the judge's instructions, let alone decide a case.

I live in a very red state, have a concealed carry permit, yet never carry a weapon because there's really no need to. And that's not because our police do such a fine job. On the contrary, they do a terrible job. Recently in our town they were called by a father who's 15 year old son was acting up (out of control). Well, the cop took care of it... He ordered the kid to put down the unloaded WW1 rifle with a bayonet attached, and when the kid didn't, he shot and killed him. I'll guarantee you I could take an unloaded gun away from a skinny 15 year old without hurting him. So could the fire department. Imagine a kid having a knife on the end of a 5 foot long 10 lb stick. I could handle it, and I'm 60.

Kind of like the woman who called the police to get her cat out of the tree... The cop draws his side arm and shoots the cat. well, he got the cat to come down didn't he.

"Would you expect law enforcement to investigate a crime of which you or your family was a victim"

Yes I would, but I wouldn't hold my breath. I had a motorized scooter stolen a while back, and when I called the police, they basically said there was nothing they could do about it.

[John D]

Me thinks babygene doesn't like the police because he is doing something he shouldn't. If you look at many of his previous posts he is most critical of police during drug busts and the like.

[Time4Atlas2Shrug]

:)

[Time4Atlas2Shrug]

"First of all I feel uncomfortable with you calling me "dear". I'm a 60 year old man and from your writing style I suspect you are a man as well. "Gene" is a masculine spelling and it is short for Eugene."

I apologize for offending your masculine sensibilities. I am a woman and the word "dear" was used in a rhetorical sense, only. ________________________________________________________

"40 years ago police were there to help and serve our citizens. I don't believe it is any longer their function. I had to laugh when they lumped them in with the firemen after 9-11, as "heroes". Firemen will go into a burning building to rescue someone, risking their life. Police (generally) will not put themselves at risk."

Too gross for words - here are your non-heroes:

Christopher Charles Amoroso; Maurice Vincent Barry; Liam Callahan; Lt. Robert Dominick Cirri; Sgt. Michael Curtin; John D'allara; Vincent G. Danz; Clinton Davis; Geronimo Mark Patrick Doninguez; Stephen Patrick Driscoll; Mark J. Ellis; Donald A. Foreman; Gregg J. Froehner; Sgt. Rodney C. Gillis; Thomas E. Gorman; Uhuru G. Houston; George Howard; Stephen Huczko; Paul W. Jurgens; Sgt. Robert Kaulfers; Ronald Phillip Kloepfer; Thomas Langone; Paul Laszynski; James Patrick Leahy; David Prudencio LeMagne; John J. Lennon; John D. Levi; James Francis Lynch; Kathy Nancy Mazza-Delosh; Brian G. McDonnell; Donald James McIntyre; Walter Arthur McNeil; Joseph M. Navas; James Nelson, Alfonse J. Neidermeyer; James Wendell Parham; John William Perry; Dominic Pezzulo; Antonio Jose Carrusca Rodrigues; Richard Rodriguez; John P. Skala; Moira Smith; Walwyn W. Stuart; Ramon Suarez; Paul Talty; Kenneth F. Tietjen; Walter E. Weaver; Nathaniel Webb; Michael T. Wholey.

They are heroes in my book.

As for your comments about the police no longer serving the citizenry - I would submit that society has degenerated so badly since your youth (largely due to baby-boomer liberal ideals being instilled in subsequent generations) that police are forced to serve the community to a far greater extent than they ever had to before. Training to be a police officer is intense and often requires college study in law enforcement, when years ago it did not.

In your view, why would one enter the law enforcement profession? Is it for the power? Who in their right mind would endeavor to investigate rapes, murders and countless other crimes, never knowing if he/she will be returning home alive solely to achieve such an authoritarian status? ________________________________________________________

"I live in a very red state, have a concealed carry permit, yet never carry a weapon because there's really no need to. And that's not because our police do such a fine job. On the contrary, they do a terrible job."

How do you reconcile this opinion? You seem to be saying that there is no danger from bad guys and that fewer exist in the general population than do in the police profession. Are they attracted to law enforcement?

Do you live in a Utopian bubble? Criminals do exist and crime would clearly increase if no one was there to stop or deter it either through laws, the enforcement of laws, or citizens defending themselves. You have chosen to voluntarily disarm yourself, even though our founders' recognized the natural right to self-defense and the need for it (there are many quotes on this topic if you want to google), and that is your choice. I also have a cc permit, but will be prepared to defend myself if the need arises. ________________________________________________________

"Recently in our town they were called by a father who's 15 year old son was acting up (out of control). Well, the cop took care of it... He ordered the kid to put down the unloaded WW1 rifle with a bayonet attached, and when the kid didn't, he shot and killed him."

I would have too. It is not a toy and there is no way to tell that is unloaded. You are a fool if you wait to become a victim. You said yourself that he was out of control. ________________________________________________________

" I'll guarantee you I could take an unloaded gun away from a skinny 15 year old without hurting him. So could the fire department. Imagine a kid having a knife on the end of a 5 foot long 10 lb stick. I could handle it, and I'm 60."

LOL. Disarmed and all. Let's see if you can get it away from me. Remember they used to kill people in war with those things and the other guys were armed. ________________________________________________________

" I had a motorized scooter stolen a while back, and when I called the police, they basically said there was nothing they could do about it."

Well, there you have it - evidence of a corrupt and dishonest police force.