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Math problems too big for our brains
Ottawa Citizen via The Windsor Star ^ | November 8 2005

Posted on 11/08/2005 8:48:52 AM PST by RightWingAtheist

Our brains have become too small to understand math, says a rebel mathematician from Britain. Or rather, math problems have grown too big to fit inside our heads. And that means mathematicians are finally losing the power to prove things with absolute certainty.

Math has been the only sure form of knowledge since the ancient Greeks, 2,500 years ago.

You can't prove the sun will rise tomorrow, but you can prove two plus two equals four, always and everywhere.

But suddenly, Brian Davies of King's College London is shaking the foundations of certainty.

He says our brains can't grasp today's complex, computer-generated math proofs.

"We are beginning to see the limits of our ability to understand things. We are animals, and our brains have a certain amount of capacity to understand things, and there are parts of mathematics where we are beginning to reach our limit.

"It is almost an inevitable consequence of the way mathematics has been done in the last century," he said in an interview.

Mathematicians work in huge groups, and with big computers.

A few still do it the old-fashioned way, he says: "By individuals sitting in their rooms for long periods, thinking.

"But there are other areas where the complexity of the problems is forcing people to work in groups or to use computers to solve large bits of work, ending up with the computer saying: 'Look, if you formulated the problem correctly, I've gone through all the 15 million cases and they all are OK, so your theorem's true'."

But the human brain can't grasp all this. And for Davies, knowing that a computer checked something isn't what matters most. It's understanding why the thing works that matters.

"What mathematicians are trying to get is insight and understanding. If God were to say, 'Look, here's your list of conjectures. This one's true, then false, false, true, true,' mathematicians would say: 'Look, I don't care what the answers are. I want to know why (and) understand it.' And a computer doesn't understand it.

"This idea that we can understand anything we believe is gradually disappearing over the horizon."

One example is the Four Colour Theorem.

Imagine a mapmaker wants to produce a colour map, where each country will be a different colour from any country touching it. In other words, France and Germany can't both be blue. That would be confusing.

So, what's the smallest number of colours that will work?

A kid can work out you need four colours. But can you prove it? Can anyone be certain, as with two-plus-two?

The answer turns out to be a hesitant Yes, but the proof depends on having a computer to work through page after page of stuff so complex that no single person can take it all in.

And it's getting worse, Davies writes in an article called "Whither Mathematics?" in today's edition of Notices of the American Mathematical Society, a math journal.

Math has tried to write a grand scheme for classifying "finite simple groups," a range of mathematical objects as basic to this discipline as the table of the elements is to chemistry -- but much bigger.

The full body of work runs to some 10,000 difficult pages. No human can ever understand all of it, either.

A year ago, Britain's Royal Society held a special symposium to tackle this question of certainty.

But many in the math community still shrug off the issue, Davies says. "Basically, mathematicians are not very good philosophers."


TOPICS: Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: computers; epistemology; fuzzymath; mathamphetamine; mathematics; philosophy; science; thenewnewmath
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To: andy58-in-nh
Really? I can prove that 2 + 2 = 11.

Yes, in Base 3.

A few milennia ago, I was working extensively in Motorolla 68000 assembly language, and I began balancing my checkbook in octal. Really screwed up my checking account. I had to go back and search for the '8's and '9's that were missing!

Mark

121 posted on 11/08/2005 2:21:47 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: MineralMan
Now, I do not know of a practical use for Base 3 math, although they may be one, if there is a physical system somewhere that has three states.

Heinlein wrote about computers that used "trinary" or base 3. It's an interesting thought... Circuits that used both positive and negative charges, as well as no charge. Of course this negates the possibility of using differential signaling...

Mark

122 posted on 11/08/2005 2:25:02 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: ILikeFriedman

Anybody else here remember doing a two page mathematical proof, getting something screwed around, and winding up with the original equation?

Mark


123 posted on 11/08/2005 2:26:54 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: MarkL
I began balancing my checkbook in octal. Really screwed up my checking account.

On the other hand, that's one way to make yourself a millionaire a lot faster.

124 posted on 11/08/2005 2:27:17 PM PST by andy58-in-nh
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To: SlowBoat407
iThink, therefore, iAm.

Borrowed from another Freeper's tag-line...

(cogito, ergo Freepum) I Think, therefore I Freep!

I also like, "Freepito, ergo sum, "I Freep, therefore I am!"

Mark

125 posted on 11/08/2005 2:28:54 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: smokinleroy
There are 10 types of people: Those who understand binary math, and those who don't.

I love that quote. I left it written on my whiteboard at my last job for over six months.

126 posted on 11/08/2005 2:29:22 PM PST by usapatriot28 ( Si vis pacem para bellum)
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To: Rock N Jones
Ummm, build better computers?

Don't build them too good!

That's right! You'll get the phillosopher's union all over you!

Mark

127 posted on 11/08/2005 2:30:12 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: RightWingAtheist

Colossus, the Forbin Project


128 posted on 11/08/2005 2:30:45 PM PST by 5Madman2 (There is no such thing as an experienced suicide bomber)
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To: Bloody Sam Roberts
Majikthise and Vroomfondel...representatives of the Amalgamated Union of Philosophers, Sages, Luminaries and Other Thinking Persons...declare that they stand in solidarity with the Pencil Pushers Union!

We have a winner, and it only took 76 posts!

Mark

129 posted on 11/08/2005 2:34:58 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: RightWingAtheist

actually, I could believe it.

I am only in Calc 1 right now, but I figure that as I get on into my Engineering degree, that I will see some things that will defy everything else I have learned as well.

I figure there are branches of math out there that HAVEN'T been discovered yet.


130 posted on 11/08/2005 2:36:45 PM PST by MikefromOhio
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To: bruin66
First words out of our professor in (honors) calc I at SUNY @ Stonly Brook...

Please take out a piece of paper, and proove that between every 2 rational numbers, there's an irrational number, and between every 2 irrational numbers, there's a rational number.

I still have nightmares about that class, even though I did get a 'B' in the class.

Mark

131 posted on 11/08/2005 2:38:27 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: MarkL
"Anybody else here remember doing a two page mathematical proof, getting something screwed around, and winding up with the original equation?"

I raise my hand. I also remember a couple of unorthodox solutions that I had to defend, but which, on balance were correct.

132 posted on 11/08/2005 2:42:36 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: andy58-in-nh

The problem was when I went back to decimal without realizing I was changing base!

Mark


133 posted on 11/08/2005 2:45:54 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: Tench_Coxe

This is the entire reason we build computers! Not to get porn (thats what the personal computer was) but to solve math that would take so long it'd be impossible for a human to solve.


134 posted on 11/08/2005 2:48:21 PM PST by RHINO369
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To: MarkL

Our first homework assignment in non-Euclidean geometry was to prove 2 points determine a line. Oh, and the teacher thought having a textbook made the class too easy, so we had no reference material.

I love impossible homework assignments.


135 posted on 11/08/2005 2:51:28 PM PST by TX Bluebonnet
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To: RHINO369

Yeah. The fun part was with punch cards. Every see a grown man cry?


136 posted on 11/08/2005 2:52:11 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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To: IslandJeff
Bookmark
137 posted on 11/08/2005 3:05:49 PM PST by IslandJeff
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To: 1L
The computer has to be programmed

Computers can self-program. Granted, they need to start somewhere.

138 posted on 11/08/2005 3:11:27 PM PST by RightWhale (Repeal the law of the excluded middle)
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To: Tench_Coxe
Yeah. The fun part was with punch cards. Every see a grown man cry?

That's why G-d invented rubber bands!

Mark

139 posted on 11/08/2005 3:12:38 PM PST by MarkL (I didn't get to where I am today by worrying about what I'd feel like tomorrow!)
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To: MarkL
"That's why G-d invented rubber bands!"

If only they didn't break.....

140 posted on 11/08/2005 3:20:35 PM PST by Tench_Coxe
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