Posted on 11/16/2005 11:36:11 AM PST by tightwadbob
I agree, but the thought was when you wound it takes two more persons ( soldiers ) minimum to care for and transport the wounded to a safe position effectively taking manpower away from the battle.
The old tommy gun was awesome.
.40 or .357 Sig would be better. More expensive but better. MP5 comes in 40 cal and works very well. Adapt the M4 for .40.
I don't know, being dead sure does put a damper on one's moral.
I will probably be flamed for this, but...
Our military has over a million AK's stockpiled from Iraq and Afghanistan and elsewhere. They probably need refurbishing, but they're still cheaper than buying new, and it could probably be done within the military's own refurbish and repair system.
And we have way too much first hand info to let us know the 7.62 Russian is an effective round. Our guys wouldn't have the ability to tell friend from foe by sound, but they will have a rock solid weapons platform proven worldwide.
Well I've had combat experience with both the 5.56 & the 7.62 and I'll take the 7.62 any day.
My fellow Marines in Iraq agree with me too.
Semper Fi,
Kelly
that would be "pyrodex" :D and make that about 80gr-90gr. :)
Nothing like the boom, smoke and smell of real blackpowder.
It would be useful to see a direct comparison between the Grendel and 6.8 SPC, but alas, we are not the ones making the decision. Either way, it's still leagues better than the wounding but not stopping .223, especially out of a shorter carbine barrel.
I always thought that the 10mm would be the very best round for a Thompson.
Pistols are somewhat more difficult to accurately hit with, and when it does hit, one certainly wants more than a sub-.38, the 9mm. At least 147gr. OSM increases penetration and effectiveness, but the 115gr. pointed FMJ is a cruel joke. Fine for training and parades in Europe, but for fighting a real war..??? We need a close range STOPPER. Hey, why doesn't somebody invent, say, a cartridge derived from the Old West .45 Colt, say, a .45 ACP, and test it in 2 World Wars, and everywhere else on the planet, to date. Now that would be an effective sidearm for our troops. Personally, I think the 10mm is the finest choice though, especially in this day of automatic rifles, and bullet-resistant vests, and shoulder-fired rockets. It somewhat bridges the gap from handgun to rifle, somewhat longer effective range. A handgun is a soldier's last ditch defensive weapon, before his bayonet, shovel, and helmet. How about giving our heroes something better than a .38 to defend their lives with? I have a dream.
6.8 Remington SPC or maybe even 6.5 Grendel might be an adjunct round as you can use the same lower receiver and most of the upper parts minus bolt and barrel and small parts.
imo
Now that we have a "hot' situation abroad, and have a lot of troops with real combat experience under their belts, not only training, they appreciate what a cartridge DOES, not just that it sounds impressive when it go boom. There's the world of difference, as it is in civilian personal protection choices. That .380 sure sounds loud and powerful at the indoor range, but once you try to shoot it into something close and nasty, with meat on its mind, your opinion suddenly shrinks to insignificance, and you realize you should also be carrying a good knife...a SHEATH knife, and a big one.
So, we may actually have a chance of supplying our troops with something that actually works, perhaps even the first time. There have been many occasions when the .223 needed multiple applications to dissuade the wounded, enemy liability from continuing to shoot back. I only wish such horrendous (and sobering) learning experiences upon the bean-counting theoreticians in our government. This may be our chance. May it be.
help is always needed with the search function here. I swear there are times I cant find nothing here. probably all those hundreds of threads on natalie holloway or whatever big thing on fox(morlock)news.
I agree... Nothing can corrode a perfectly good gun like real blackpowder :D
I once got ahold of some Egyptian made 8mm Mauser ammo and it was virulently corrosive. It shot just fine but you had better clean that rifle and quick or it would resemble a Mexican stovepipe pretty soon.
I hadn't thought about it but you are right, a 10mm makes a lot of sense for a combat arm. Better penetration, power, and greater capacity. Probably just as good a stopper too as the .45
10 mm are more powerful than a .45.
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