Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

FLASHBACK: "Russia Hid Saddam's WMDs" (Washington Times, 10/2/03)
The Washington Times (via FrontPageMag) ^ | October 2, 2003 | Ion Mihai Pacepa

Posted on 11/16/2005 10:51:27 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

On March 20, Russian President Vladimir Putin denounced the U.S.-led "aggression" against Iraq as "unwarranted" and "unjustifiable." Three days later, Pravda said that an anonymous Russian "military expert" was predicting that the United States would fabricate finding Iraqi weapons of mass destruction. Russian Foreign Minister Igor Ivanov immediately started plying the idea abroad, and it has taken hold around the world ever since.

As a former Romanian spy chief who used to take orders from the Soviet KGB, it is perfectly obvious to me that Russia is behind the evanescence of Saddam Hussein's weapons of mass destruction. After all, Russia helped Saddam get his hands on them in the first place. The Soviet Union and all its bloc states always had a standard operating procedure for deep sixing weapons of mass destruction — in Romanian it was codenamed "Sarindar, meaning "emergency exit." I implemented it in Libya. It was for ridding Third World despots of all trace of their chemical weapons if the Western imperialists ever got near them. We wanted to make sure they would never be traced back to us, and we also wanted to frustrate the West by not giving them anything they could make propaganda with.

All chemical weapons were to be immediately burned or buried deep at sea. Technological documentation, however, would be preserved in microfiche buried in waterproof containers for future reconstruction. Chemical weapons, especially those produced in Third World countries, which lack sophisticated production facilities, often do not retain lethal properties after a few months on the shelf and are routinely dumped anyway. And all chemical weapons plants had a civilian cover making detection difficult, regardless of the circumstances.

The plan included an elaborate propaganda routine. Anyone accusing Moammar Gadhafi of possessing chemical weapons would be ridiculed. Lies, all lies! Come to Libya and see! Our Western left-wing organizations, like the World Peace Council, existed for sole purpose of spreading the propaganda we gave them. These very same groups bray the exact same themes to this day. We always relied on their expertise at organizing large street demonstrations in Western Europe over America's "war-mongering" whenever we wanted to distract world attention from the crimes of the vicious regimes we sponsored.

Iraq, in my view, had its own "Sarindar" plan in effect direct from Moscow. It certainly had one in the past. Nicolae Ceausescu told me so, and he heard it from Leonid Brezhnev. KGB chairman Yury Andropov, and later, Gen. Yevgeny Primakov, told me so, too. In the late 1970s, Gen. Primakov ran Saddam's weapons programs. After that, as you may recall, he was promoted to head of the Soviet foreign intelligence service in 1990, to Russia's minister of foreign affairs in 1996, and in 1998, to prime minister. What you may not know is that Primakov hates Israel and has always championed Arab radicalism. He was a personal friend of Saddam's and has repeatedly visited Baghdad after 1991, quietly helping Saddam play his game of hide-and-seek.

The Soviet bloc not only sold Saddam its WMDs, but it showed them how to make them "disappear." Russia is still at it. Primakov was in Baghdad from December until a couple of days before the war, along with a team of Russian military experts led by two of Russia's topnotch "retired"generals: Vladislav Achalov, a former deputy defense minister, and Igor Maltsev, a former air defense chief of staff. They were all there receiving honorary medals from the Iraqi defense minister. They clearly were not there to give Saddam military advice for the upcoming war—Saddam's Katyusha launchers were of World War II vintage, and his T-72 tanks, BMP-1 fighting vehicles and MiG fighter planes were all obviously useless against America. "I did not fly to Baghdad to drink coffee," was what Gen. Achalov told the media afterward. They were there orchestrating Iraq's "Sarindar" plan.

The U.S. military in fact, has already found the only thing that would have been allowed to survive under the classic Soviet "Sarindar" plan to liquidate weapons arsenals in the event of defeat in war — the technological documents showing how to reproduce weapons stocks in just a few weeks.

Such a plan has undoubtedly been in place since August 1995 — when Saddam's son-in-law, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who ran Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological programs for 10 years, defected to Jordan. That August, UNSCOM and International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) inspectors searched a chicken farm owned by Kamel's family and found more than one hundred metal trunks and boxes containing documentation dealing with all categories of weapons, including nuclear. Caught red-handed, Iraq at last admitted to its "extensive biological warfare program, including weaponization," issued a "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure Report" and turned over documents about the nerve agent VX and nuclear weapons.

Saddam then lured Gen. Kamel back, pretending to pardon his defection. Three days later, Kamel and over 40 relatives, including women and children, were murdered, in what the official Iraqi press described as a "spontaneous administration of tribal justice." After sending that message to his cowed, miserable people, Saddam then made a show of cooperation with UN inspection, since Kamel had just compromised all his programs, anyway. In November 1995, he issued a second "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure" as to his supposedly non-existent missile programs. That very same month, Jordan intercepted a large shipment of high-grade missile components destined for Iraq. UNSCOM soon fished similar missile components out of the Tigris River, again refuting Saddam's spluttering denials. In June 1996, Saddam slammed the door shut to UNSCOM's inspection of any "concealment mechanisms." On Aug. 5, 1998, halted cooperation with UNSCOM and the IAEA completely, and they withdrew on Dec. 16, 1998. Saddam had another four years to develop and hide his weapons of mass destruction without any annoying, prying eyes. U.N. Security Council resolutions 1115, (June 21, 1997), 1137 (Nov. 12, 1997), and 1194 (Sept. 9, 1998) were issued condemning Iraq—ineffectual words that had no effect. In 2002, under the pressure of a huge U.S. military buildup by a new U.S. administration, Saddam made yet another "Full, Final and Complete Disclosure," which was found to contain "false statements" and to constitute another "material breach" of U.N. and IAEA inspection and of paragraphs eight to 13 of resolution 687 (1991).

It was just a few days after this last "Disclosure," after a decade of intervening with the U.N. and the rest of the world on Iraq's behalf, that Gen. Primakov and his team of military experts landed in Baghdad — even though, with 200,000 U.S. troops at the border, war was imminent, and Moscow could no longer save Saddam Hussein. Gen. Primakov was undoubtedly cleaning up the loose ends of the "Sarindar" plan and assuring Saddam that Moscow would rebuild his weapons of mass destruction after the storm subsided for a good price.

Mr. Putin likes to take shots at America and wants to reassert Russia in world affairs. Why would he not take advantage of this opportunity? As minister of foreign affairs and prime minister, Gen. Primakov has authored the "multipolarity" strategy of counterbalancing American leadership by elevating Russia to great-power status in Eurasia. Between Feb. 9-12, Mr. Putin visited Germany and France to propose a three-power tactical alignment against the United States to advocate further inspections rather than war. On Feb. 21, the Russian Duma appealed to the German and French parliaments to join them on March 4-7 in Baghdad, for "preventing U.S. military aggression against Iraq." Crowds of European leftists, steeped for generations in left-wing propaganda straight out of Moscow, continue to find the line appealing.

Mr. Putin's tactics have worked. The United States won a brilliant military victory, demolishing a dictatorship without destroying the country, but it has begun losing the peace. While American troops unveiled the mass graves of Saddam's victims, anti-American forces in Western Europe and elsewhere, spewed out vitriolic attacks, accusing Washington of greed for oil and not of really caring about weapons of mass destruction, or exaggerating their risks, as if weapons of mass destruction were really nothing very much to worry about after all.

It is worth remembering that Andrei Sakharov, the father of the Soviet hydrogen bomb, chose to live in a Soviet gulag instead of continuing to develop the power of death. "I wanted to alert the world," Sakharov explained in 1968, "to the grave perils threatening the human race thermonuclear extinction, ecological catastrophe, famine." Even Igor Kurchatov, the KGB academician who headed the Soviet nuclear program from 1943 until his death in 1960, expressed deep qualms of conscience about helping to create weapons of mass destruction. "The rate of growth of atomic explosives is such," he warned in an article written together with several other Soviet nuclear scientists not long before he died, "that in just a few years the stockpile will be large enough to create conditions under which the existence of life on earth will be impossible."

The Cold War was fought over the reluctance to use weapons of mass destruction, yet now this logic is something only senior citizens seem to recall. Today, even lunatic regimes like that in North Korea not only possess weapons of mass destruction, but openly offer to sell them to anyone with cash, including terrorists and their state sponsors. Is anyone paying any attention? Being inured to proliferation, however, does not reduce its danger. On the contrary, it increases it.

TOPICS: Extended News; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: china; gwot; ionmihaipacepa; iraq; iraqiwmd; pacepa; primakov; putin; russia; saddam; saddamhussein; saddamswmds; soviet; terrorism; ussr; wmd; wmdmyth; wot
And a good follow-up...

Saddam's Ex-KGB Connection? (The Pacepa Accusation) ^ | August 23, 2003 | Jay Bryant

An article by Ion Pacepa, which appeared in Thursday's Washington Times is much too important to simply be left to stand alone.

Pacepa charges that General Yevgeny Primakov, a former Prime Minister of Russia and onetime head of the Soviet foreign intelligence service, ran Saddam Hussein's weapons program and personally oversaw the liquidation of the evidence that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Pacepa doesn't quite say it directly, but his article implies that Russian President Vladimir Putin was aware of and approved Primakov's role in the WMD disappearance program.

If all this is true, it is the most important news about Iraq since the fall of Saddam's government, for two reasons: first, it indicts the anti-American axis of old Europe in complicity not just to prevent us from getting too big for our britches, but in a willingness to prop up the most dreadful dictator since Stalin in the process.

Second, it provides the real answer to the embarrassing question: why haven't you found any WMD's?

Who is this Ion Pacepa, and why should we believe him? Once deputy chief of Romanian foreign intelligence, he defected to the U.S. in 1978. He remains the highest- ranking intelligence officer ever to defect from the Soviet Bloc.

To me, that pedigree means two things: he knows a lot about intelligence, and he knows how to lie.

Is he lying about Primakov? Or perhaps he's not exactly lying; but perhaps his theory is simply wrong.

Here is Pacepa's case. The Soviets and their allies always had a "standard operating procedure" for getting rid of weapons of mass destruction. Pacepa himself implemented the S.O.P. in Libya.

Saddam had such a procedure in place; Romanian dictator Nicolae Ceausescu "told me so," Pacepa says, and so did Primakov, who "in the late 1970's…ran Saddam's weapons programs." There is a problem with this assertion, because Saddam did not officially come to power until July of 1979, and Ceausescu certainly was not chatting up Pacepa after the latter's 1978 defection. However, Saddam was the power behind the throne of his cousin General Ahmad Hassan al-Bakr, who assumed control of Iraq in a 1968 coup d'etat, so it all may be true at least de facto, if not de jure. But Pacepa needs to explain just how this part of the story works to have real credibility.

Primakov, according to Pacepa, worked with Saddam throughout the latter's reign, and it is true that he was closely involved with the Iraqi leader in 1991, earning the enmity of the administration of Bush the Elder.

Primakov's closeness to Saddam is attested by other sources as well. In 1999, when the general was Russian Prime Minister, journalist Seymour Hirsch published an article in the New Yorker alleging that Primakov had received an $800,000 Iraqi bribe hand-delivered by Tariq Aziz.

But the truly important piece of information in Pacepa's story is this: that Primakov was in Baghdad with two other former Soviet generals, Vladislav Achalov and Igor Maltsev, "from December [2002] until a couple of days before the war."

I have confirmed that he was there at least part of that time. On February 24, 2003, Condoleezza Rice was asked by a reporter what she thought Primakov was doing in Baghdad.

She didn't know, but she knew he was there, and referenced his parallel 1991 visit in her answer.

If Primakov spent anything like the three months before the Iraqi War in Baghdad, it is patently obvious that he was up to no good, and logical, given his expertise, to believe his mission may well have been orchestrating the deep-sixing of Saddam's WMD stockpile.

The worldwide press should pick up this story, investigate it thoroughly, and if it vets out make it front page news for a long time. They should smoke out Primakov – and his two cronies, too, perhaps even more so – and ask them to explain what they was doing on the banks of the Tigris in the winter of '03. Whatever lie they tell in answering, reporters should follow up on, disprove and write another week's worth of stories.

Putin, too should be made to feel the heat of this investigation. Primakov, Achalov and Matlsev may have been there on their own, without Putin's imprimatur, but I doubt it, and anyway, Putin should be put on the record with that claim, if he chooses to make it.

The world (not to mention the Democrats) is beating the Bush Administration about the head and shoulders with the accusation that there are no WMD's in Iraq. If the reason is because General Primakov implemented an old Soviet plan and liquidated the whole stockpile, then the world needs to know it.

1 posted on 11/16/2005 10:51:28 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: cgk


2 posted on 11/16/2005 10:52:39 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: StarFan; Dutchy; alisasny; BobFromNJ; BUNNY2003; Cacique; Clemenza; Coleus; cyborg; DKNY; ...

Please FReepmail me if you want on or off my ‘miscellaneous’ ping list.

3 posted on 11/16/2005 10:57:16 PM PST by nutmeg ("We're going to take things away from you on behalf of the common good." - Hillary Clinton 6/28/04)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard


4 posted on 11/16/2005 10:57:40 PM PST by SideoutFred (Save us from the Looney Left)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

So you think the other Newsmax story has legs?

It would be nice, but I won't hold my breath waiting for that to pan out.

5 posted on 11/16/2005 11:00:09 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
So far, the left has no answers for the real explanation for why no WMDs were found in Iraq: all of the WMDs were taken out of Iraq before we invaded. If you ask them to prove that WMDs were not taken out, they can't.

We should start a new mantra to counter the "Bush lied" mantra: WMD were moved out.

6 posted on 11/16/2005 11:02:44 PM PST by jonrick46
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: jonrick46
We gave 'em five months notice, for heaven's sake!
7 posted on 11/16/2005 11:09:15 PM PST by oprahstheantichrist (...or false prophet at the very least.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: A CA Guy
So you think the other Newsmax story has legs?

Thankfully, it's a Weekly Standard story, by Stephen Hayes. I believe it will have legs. I think the White House is going to force the issue with this one.

8 posted on 11/16/2005 11:10:51 PM PST by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

If it exists, it would be interesting.

9 posted on 11/16/2005 11:17:47 PM PST by A CA Guy (God Bless America, God bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: oprahstheantichrist

I was glad they had five months to move the weapons out rather than doing a doomsday tactic which would have killed huge numbers of people.

10 posted on 11/16/2005 11:30:44 PM PST by jonrick46
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: potlatch; devolve; PhilDragoo; bitt; Zacs Mom


11 posted on 11/16/2005 11:41:17 PM PST by ntnychik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard


12 posted on 11/16/2005 11:49:12 PM PST by Freee-dame
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard; Peach; backhoe
In The President’s Quiver – The First Installment

Where the WMD's Went

Where Are the Pentagon Papers?

13 posted on 11/17/2005 12:03:06 AM PST by cgk (Card-Carrying, Dues-Paying Member of the VCBC {Vast Conservative Base Conspiracy})
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard; PhilDragoo
Saddams WMD went mostly to Syria where much of it is near bolt on to Syria's existing Scud series.

Russia would easily be the broker of this with Iran involved aswell.

Israel has satellite pass coverage of newly overturned fields in the Bekka allong with other places in Syria.
Hezbollah had been handling the goods too....and screwed their have been several massive detonations with ambulances racing to hospitals.

In one instance it appears Hezbollah wanted a dry run on start up...and blew themselves to kingdom come.

Its a bit of a lull now concerning missiles,Russia and salivating Moon children.
Ex Soviet/ Ukrainian KH 55 cruise missiles in the possesion of several mideast nations hints they have been given a toy waiting for nuclear warhead mating.
IAEA even caught Egypt with signatory breaking isotope at their facilities...indicating that Cairo was interested in mating something.

A.Q. Khan may have given more away than we imagine.
Cruise missile is a better deal than ballistic trajectory.
Israel can breathe a sigh of relief inthat U.S. has a fairly good handle on any shinanigans attempted by Pharaoh.
Syria and her ageing scud fire chain are more likely a decent IAF outing with a challenge.
Israel sends regrets to Erikkison cellular for blowing away their cell repeater system in Syria and the Lebanon.

yet...there is concern down the road.
and should the rats get back in the whitehouse.

tunnels in mountains and underground will be busy like bee hives in the land of the moon children.

14 posted on 11/17/2005 12:25:42 AM PST by Light Speed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
WMD: Believe Iraq or Believe the Evidence? (more on Primakov)

Iraq Seeks Talks to Save Its Stock of Barred Missiles: Russia sent a former prime minister, Yevgeny Primakov, an old friend of President Saddam Hussein of Iraq, to Baghdad. The nature of that mission was not disclosed.

Gertz: Russia tied to Iraq's missing arms (Russian special forces troops moved many of Saddam Hussein's weapons and related goods out of Iraq and into Syria in the weeks before the March 2003 U.S. military operation, The Washington Times has learned. John A. Shaw, the deputy undersecretary of defense for international technology security, said in an interview that he believes the Russian troops, working with Iraqi intelligence, "almost certainly" removed the high-explosive material that went missing from the Al-Qaqaa facility, south of Baghdad. )

Mylroie: "..the source of the near-universal belief that Iraq had WMD

Bio-Chemical Weapons & Saddam: A History.

What Duelfer Missed

Who Armed Iraq? Myth vs. Fact

UN Confirms: WMDs Smuggled Out of Iraq

WMD: Blair was Right

WMD (The Smoking Gun) Found!

Saddam's WMD hidden in Syria, says Iraq survey chief

Annan met with UN reform pointman Yevgeny Primakov in Moscow when Oil-For-Food scandal broke

1994: Russia's Aims in the Middle East (Wake Up America!)

15 posted on 11/17/2005 12:26:31 AM PST by cgk (Card-Carrying, Dues-Paying Member of the VCBC {Vast Conservative Base Conspiracy})
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

So, one way or another, the decision to invade Iraq DID lead to the termination of Saddam's WMD programs.

Who cares whether THEY dumped them, or WE confiscated them?

The result was the same - terminated.

Why can't the White House sell this simple message?

16 posted on 11/17/2005 12:48:24 AM PST by Enduring Freedom (The Bush White House PR is the worst ever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cgk; Light Speed; jonrick46
Have you seen this? Posts 80-85
17 posted on 11/17/2005 1:05:41 AM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom

And that's not a partisan issue; that Iraq won't have the capability to target US bases in Europe with NBC missiles is a good thing for America. That development was given if left unchecked.

18 posted on 11/17/2005 1:11:45 AM PST by endthematrix (Those who despise freedom and progress have condemned themselves to isolation, decline, and collapse)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: jonrick46
We should start a new mantra to counter the "Bush lied" mantra: WMD were moved out.

And now we're learning where they were moved!

19 posted on 11/17/2005 1:33:52 AM PST by bobbyd (Damn, I've been tagged.....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: cgk

Copied & saved- thanks!

20 posted on 11/17/2005 1:37:36 AM PST by backhoe
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: All
Another WMD story resurrected from the past ...

UN Says: WMDs Smuggled From Iraq; Canadian PM Says in Terrorist Hands

21 posted on 11/17/2005 1:54:13 AM PST by Cboldt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cgk


22 posted on 11/17/2005 3:18:36 AM PST by wildcatf4f3 (admittedly too unstable for public office)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom

Who cares whether THEY dumped them, or WE confiscated them?

The result was the same - terminated.

Why can't the White House sell this simple message?===

Because Washington always talked about the threat of OPERATIONAL WMD of Saddam not about his WMD programs. Tony Blaer even scared the members of his Parlament with 20 or 45 minutes of readiness of Saddam WMD.
If you remember few month after Bagdad taking the special commands of militaries seached for "hot WMD".

Back down to just WMD programs is the confession that pre-war explainations was wrong.

23 posted on 11/17/2005 3:49:04 AM PST by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: jonrick46

If you ask them to prove that WMDs were not taken out, they can't.
We should start a new mantra to counter the "Bush lied" mantra: WMD were moved out.==

Better to ask them to prove that WMD did not exists:))). It is just like "guilty until proven innocent" formula:).

I would be interested what you answer if road police stopped you and tell "mister just prove us that you didn't break any rules".

24 posted on 11/17/2005 3:53:58 AM PST by RusIvan ("THINK!" the motto of IBM)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard


25 posted on 11/17/2005 4:08:12 AM PST by tentmaker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Light Speed
Link no longer found:, entitled: Russia boasts weapon to overcome U.S. Star Wars


MOSCOW (March 29 [2004], 5:17 am AST) - Russia has designed a "revolutionary" weapon that would make the prospective U.S. missile defense useless, Russian news agencies reported Monday, quoting a senior Defense Ministry official. The official, who was not identified by name, said tests conducted during last month's military maneuvers would dramatically change the philosophy behind development of Russia's nuclear forces, the Interfax and ITAR-Tass news agencies reported. If deployed, the new weapon would take the value of any U.S. missile shield to "zero," the news agencies quoted the official as saying.

The official said the new weapon would be inexpensive, providing an "asymmetric answer" to U.S. missile defenses, which are proving extremely costly to develop. Russia, meanwhile, also has continued research in prospective missile defenses and has an edge in some areas compared to other nations, the official said

--end snip

26 posted on 11/17/2005 4:13:23 AM PST by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

I have been saying this all along. Now to have the WT report it is one thing, still speculation at this point, but our state department can not make these alegations without severe repercusions.

27 posted on 11/17/2005 4:16:44 AM PST by eastforker (Under Cover FReeper going dark(too much 24))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Enduring Freedom
Why can't the White House sell this simple message?

In order to do that, the WH would have to out Russia and others for their involvement. This alone could explain the WH's silence. (that damn Diplomacy again)
28 posted on 11/17/2005 4:43:52 AM PST by wolfcreek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard

The question that no one is asking is how did the MSM and the rat politicians of America know before the first phase of the Iraqi war was over, basically no WMDs were in Iraq.

There is only one way the MSM and our rat $inators, who hasn't been correct on anything about Iraq could have known that basically there were no WMDS in Iraq.

They were told by $addam or who ever moved the WMDs out of Iraq, that they were no longer in Iraq.

29 posted on 11/17/2005 6:16:47 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Watch the rats re Iraq in 1998:
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
CHENEY FIGHTS BACK Wed Nov 16 2005 18:56:46 ET Excerpts As Prepared For Delivery Tonight by Vice President Cheney

"What we’re hearing now is some politicians contradicting their own statements and making a play for political advantage in the middle of a war. The saddest part is that our people in uniform have been subjected to these cynical and pernicious falsehoods day in and day out. American soldiers and Marines are out there every day in dangerous conditions and desert temperatures – conducting raids, training Iraqi forces, countering attacks, seizing weapons, and capturing killers – and back home a few opportunists are suggesting they were sent into battle for a lie."

"The President and I cannot prevent certain politicians from losing their memory, or their backbone – but we’re not going to sit by and let them rewrite history."

"We’re going to continue throwing their own words back at them. And far more important, we’re going to continue sending a consistent message to the men and women who are fighting the war on terror in Iraq, Afghanistan, and many other fronts."

30 posted on 11/17/2005 7:09:58 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Watch the rats re Iraq in 1998:
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dynoman; WhistlingPastTheGraveyard
Thanks! No, I hadn't seen those posts, though I had read "some" background on the Iraq-Libya-Egypt-Iran-DPRK WMD linkages...

Reposting your links here, for later reading altogether:

Iraqi WMD Debate and Intelligence: the Links to Libya

The Iraq War ISSA Special Reports

Iraq, Iran, North Korea and WMD: Threat Activated

Libya, Iran, DPRK Discuss New Strategic Missile Procurement

Libyan NoDong SSMs Reported Targeting Southern NATO Sites and Israel (November 8, 2000 )

Weapons Grade Uranium Moving in Middle East; Iraqi WMD and Delivery Development Being Undertaken in Libya (October 1, 2002 )

31 posted on 11/17/2005 10:19:16 AM PST by cgk (Cheney: Senators Reid, Kerry & Rockefeller were unable to attend due to a prior lack of commitment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Alia
Russia Tests Missile Designed to Overcome US Defense Shield

November 03, 2005 Moscow ( - Russian media are hailing an intercontinental ballistic missile test, calling it a successful demonstration of the military's capability to pierce the U.S. anti-missile defense shield.

The Topol-M intercontinental ballistic missile has unique capabilities, making it virtually invulnerable, Russia's leading television broadcaster, Channel 1, commented Wednesday.
Trud, a pro-government daily, said the American anti-missile defense umbrella was no longer a problem for Russia because the test-launch demonstrated that the newest warhead could overcome it.
On Tuesday, Russia test-fired the new missile a new Topol, which boasts a range of some 10,000 kilometers. It was fired from a ground-based launcher and hit a target in a testing ground in neighboring Kazakhstan, the Defense Ministry reported.
Russia's Kommersant daily said the military claimed that "maneuvers" by the warhead during the final stretch of its trajectory would prevent missile defense systems from intercepting and destroying the incoming missile.
This would therefore be Moscow's "asymmetrical" response to the U.S. missile defense system, it said.
Deployment of the new warheads would begin next year, Strategic Missile Forces commander Gen. Nikolai Solovtsov announced last month.
Russia recently test-fired a Bulava missile from a nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine. The Bulava is a modified, sea-based version of the land based Topol-M.
If successful, Topol-Bulava missiles would be the first intercontinental weapon system Moscow has created since it withdrew from the SALT-2 treaty with the U.S. in response to the American missile defense plans.

32 posted on 11/17/2005 3:10:27 PM PST by Light Speed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Light Speed

Wow. Does Russia "issue" one of these releases a year? They are nearly identical.

33 posted on 11/17/2005 4:11:08 PM PST by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: wolfcreek
After Oil4Food broke, I saw that official "Russia" had declared (via Pravda) they'd not used any of the illicit oil4food monies. That they had been above aboard. 2. At a later date Russia began wrangling at the US (again) making "dire" threats, and countries like Estonia, etc., clearly said they'd be facing their guns towards Russia, if Russia did not clean up its act.

Diplomacy via checkmate. No time at moment to bring up the links.

34 posted on 11/17/2005 4:15:21 PM PST by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 28 | View Replies]

Comment #35 Removed by Moderator

To: jonrick46

Bush disarmed Saddam.

36 posted on 11/17/2005 4:22:36 PM PST by csmusaret (Urban Sprawl is an oxymoron)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: dynoman; PhilDragoo
Thanks for the ping and the links.

Guess their are alot of dissed countries who never stepped back to think that so much transport of material was bound to be noticed.
Next is Pakistan and the screw up AQ Khan.

Even China got caught running out N.K. missile parts and spares on flagged container ships and on airline.
Congress even sat for a day session just on China's sleazy manuveres.

some nations were taking their orders unfinished......ship it now as is before U.S. and Israel set up to interdict on the shipping lanes

The U.S. had to invade Iraq and send a message to Moscow,Bejing and where ever moon children are tuning in.
The level of transfer activity margined that soon enough Israel would get jittery and go on somebody.
The mideast would become another round of super power weapons sales.
Henry Kissinger comented on a Charlie Rose program a year or so back...that in the previous mid east wars,
The U.S. intention was to showcase the superiority of its weapons sytems via Israel and rub Moscows noses in it..allong with the salivating moon children.

Moscow must have freak out repeatedly after some of these quick smash Israeli wars.
In 1973 on the Golan,
Israel finally settled the Russian missile umbrella in Sinai and could then double up sorties of Skyhawks and Phantoms on Syrian mech divisions.

There's not much in the way of film stock or photo's.
The story line goes that Israel layed on the napalm and cluster muni's...coupled with refortified tank platoons decimated from the first week.
The Syrians finally broke and ran.
They left hundreds of intact tanks and mech assets idling in the sun and hoofed it home in a full scale sprint.
The battle area was called the Valley of Tears by the Israeli's.
Syrians just got slaughtered.
In 82...they got slaughtered again...especially their airforce.

In 82...IDF discovered that one group of moon children where a handfull and would stand and fight.
That being the Hezbollah in south Lebanon.
On a journal rehash program of the 82 war...was a film segment where a Lebanese Druze from the Suf mountains was being held up at an Israeli checkpoint.
Upset that he was not allowed to return home he yelled....

"Why can't I go home....there's no one up've killed them all"!

The Israeli soldiers wearing Raybans just smiled.

On final

Some time back on CNN Robert Noval was freaking and spitting that Bush was in Iraq fighting Sharons war.
On the surface this is incorrect....yet not entirely untrue.
Lacking resource depth for a sustained conflict which could easily see Egypt and Syria involved...and maybe Jordan after their airspace is violated...maybe even the Saudi's.
Israel would have to lay it on heavy and quick.
The entire mid east would spiral away.
with Russia and China on the phones offering weapons systems for cash and oil futures.

37 posted on 11/17/2005 5:16:03 PM PST by Light Speed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Alia; PhilDragoo
Wow. Does Russia "issue" one of these releases a year? They are nearly identical. seems so : )

Maybe Russia is a little tenative now to crow about undertakings....especialy after the fiasco a year or so back when Brass showed up to watch missile launches during manuevers.
One missile flew off wildly and another glitched in the silo.
back to back screw ups.

Pravda made a gallant attempt to paint the reality a different color.
Then ran some articles later about the decline of Russia's military.
Wonder if someone went to a Gulag after that......maybe Joe Biden knows : )

Still...and apart from the **Canned news feeds.
Russia is about with advanced gen weapons which focus on jamming,multiple interface tie in on rotation in 4CI combat....and ya...3d movement

These weapons margin you cannot assure you have them down after engagement.
You are definitley on the defensive...and thats what an opponent is wanting in fluidic battle.

These weapons are not likely to have wopping punch unless they are micro boosted nukes.
Plasma and phasic discharge weapons are just around the corner.
you get EMP'd...burnt to a crisp...and the detonation value is high yeild.

Once energy module's which prime this type of system is scale'd down.....these are sure to be the hammer of choice.

Just around the corner could be 20 yrs.....or less.
Plasma guns allready exist and are being scaled down in components.

38 posted on 11/17/2005 5:46:21 PM PST by Light Speed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

Comment #39 Removed by Moderator

To: Light Speed
Thank you very much for this explanation; appreciate it. And yes, I think you are right that this will be "around the corner" before we know it: Plasma and phasic discharge weapons. These would be so much more manageable and portable than a missile booster.

Light Speed? You heard anything about Russia/France joint space programs? Few years back, I was digging into that; I was surprised at the time to see them working together.

40 posted on 11/17/2005 7:01:12 PM PST by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: cgk
Look at this;

41 posted on 11/17/2005 8:03:09 PM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: cgk; My2Cents
More by at the thread, it's a short thread.

42 posted on 11/17/2005 8:23:32 PM PST by dynoman (Objectivity is the essence of intelligence. - Marylin vos Savant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: Alia
Yes....Russia approached France to launch satellites at Kourou in French Guyana.
Its a joint venture...France is kicking in some 300-million-euro ($345 million)

Kourou is home for Arianne and is being redesigned to handle Soyuz and the new Soyuz 3.


At the time the Soyuz-3 concept made its public debut at Moscow Air Show in August 2005, few technical details on the launcher had been available. During one of the public events in Moscow, a photographer snapped a picture of a space official holding a card with the Soyuz-3 specifications. In the new age of digital photography and the Internet, a reproduction of the card with key specs of the Soyuz-3 easily discernible was orbiting cyberspace long before the officials or industry publications "informed" the public.
The Soyuz-3 apparently borrowed body dimensions for the 1st and 2nd stages from the Avrora project. The top section of the 2nd stage (also known as core or sustainer stage) would have a cylindrical shape with the constant diameter, as oppose to conical shape of its predecessors. Like Avrora, the Soyuz-3 would carry NK-33 engine, inherited from the ill-fated N1 rocket, developed during the Moon Race between the USSR and the United States in the 1960s. However, the scale model apparently lacked RD-110P steering engine on the 2nd stage.
The first stage, traditionally comprised of four conical strap-on boosters, would be equipped with a modified version of the RD-120 engine, borrowed from currently operational Zenit-2 rocket.
Finally, the biggest change would come in the third stage, which sould be developed from scratch and equipped with four RD-0146E engines, burning cryogenically cooled liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen. The basic concept of the engine was also intended for upper stages of the Proton-M and Angara launch vehicles.


Russia has also signed joint space ventures with China,India and even Brazil.

43 posted on 11/17/2005 8:28:46 PM PST by Light Speed
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 40 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave
I think certain DemonRATs have top secret information about the status of the WMDs. Since it would be a huge security breach to reveal any details, they are using it to their advantage. Knowing that President Bush cannot spill the beans without a major impeachment charge which would remove him from office, they are poking the President in the eye with it. Every time they make the charge that President Bush made a rush to judgment without the facts, the President gets squeezed tighter in the corner.

The DemonRATs are trying to build a case that the country was led by a fool who exploited 9-11 for his political advantage. The only way they can do that is by rewriting history and by exploiting the situation that prevents information being revealed that is of the highest order of secrecy. With the public so out of touch with reality, the DemonRATs could hallucinate anything and the public would buy it.

I am in fear for my country if the DemonRATs get in power again.

44 posted on 11/17/2005 10:40:35 PM PST by jonrick46
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: jonrick46

That is one way to look at their behavior the past couple of years.

They are true scumbags, and if they return to power, we will enter the hot phase of the Civil War II.

45 posted on 11/17/2005 11:20:51 PM PST by Grampa Dave (Watch the rats re Iraq in 1998:
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 44 | View Replies]

To: Light Speed; Alia

Isn't it special that Nunn-Lugar pays for Russia's nuclear security?

46 posted on 11/18/2005 12:33:36 AM PST by PhilDragoo (Hitlery: das Butch von Buchenvald)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Light Speed; PhilDragoo

I've got some boning up to do. Thank you both.

47 posted on 11/18/2005 4:03:01 AM PST by Alia
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Grampa Dave

As a side note, did you see President Bush with Putin today? I detected a great smile of relief on President Bush's face. I think there will be great results with our two countries working together on the terrorism problem (something that both countries are dealing with)

48 posted on 11/18/2005 8:51:55 AM PST by jonrick46
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 45 | View Replies]

To: jonrick46

Lets hope so.

So far, most of us haven't been too relieved about Putin and his involvements with Iraq, Iran and Syria.

49 posted on 11/18/2005 9:19:33 AM PST by Grampa Dave (Watch the rats re Iraq in 1998:
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 48 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794 is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson