California homicides dwarf Iraq deaths

worldnetdaily ^ | December 2, 2005

[finnsheep]

42,000 in the USA died last year in motor vehicle accidents - - around 2,000 every 6 weeks. The most likely to die are young people up to the age of 25. Howcome we don't get to see the coffins????

[GBA]

"In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) are against illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens. These numbers rival the war on terrorism statistics, but nobody not even the local news will even report it, yet we hear everyday about Iraq."

Wow! That puts things into perspective and needs to be repeated! And hopefully, repeated by every talk show in the country. I knew the illegal alien problem was bad, but had no idea things have gotten this bad.

[Non-Sequitur]

Recently released crime statistics show the homicide rate in California is 265 percent higher than the death rate suffered by U.S. and British military personnel in Iraq.

These statistics are meaningless since they don't include the Iraqi casualties, or don't they count? There have been over 2000 casualties among the Iraqi security forces and, depending on who you believe, anywhere from 8,000 to 30,000 civilian deaths. All at the hands of the terrorists. All in 2005 alone. How does that compare with the California crime rate?

[Kozak]

We need a timetable for immediate withdrawl from California, it's clearly a failure....
/sarc

[viiince]

This idiot is effectively belittling the sacrifices American soldiers have made in Iraq.

population California (2004 est.): 35,900,000
homicides California (2004): 2,394
--> homicide rate California: 0,0066%

US soldiers in Iraq (2004): 130,000
US soldiers killed in Iraq (2004): 848
--> rate of US soldiers killed in Iraq: 0.6523%


So the chance for a Californian soldier in Iraq to get murdered is about 100 times higher than if he'd stayed at home.

In conclusion, please everyone quit posting BS from WorldNetDaily.

[goldstategop]

The figures for a year in our most populous state exceed our combat deaths in Iraq. You will never see the MSM establish the context. If they did, the Left's claim we're taking on unwarranted casualties would collapse like a house of cards. Then again, its not the truth our opponents have been interested in from Day One. The facts are there for any one willing to take a moment to find out about them.

(Denny Crane: "I Don't Want To Socialize With A Pinko Liberal Democrat Commie.Say What You Like About Republicans. We Stick To Our Convictions. Even When We Know We're Dead Wrong.")

[Alia]

So, how much money is Lockyer demanding of the Feds to "solve" this "Insurgency" and high "homicide rate" in CA?

[seastay]

To be fair why not add the population of Iraq, about 22,200,000

population California (2004 est.): 35,900,000
homicides California (2004): 2,394
--> homicide rate California: 0.0066%

US soldiers in Iraq and the population of Iraq(2004): 2,2330,000
US soldiers killed in Iraq (2004): 848
--> rate of US soldiers killed in Iraq: 0.0037%


In conclusion, WorldNet Daily article pointed out a very real fact; The homicide rate in the Iraq conflict about the same as CA . Also add to the fact that a large percentage of homicide is CA or committed by insurgents crossing our boarder too, so the CA numbers are striking, but all we hear about is Iraq. If these numbers are normal then the democrats should shut up, but of these numbers are high then the republicans should address our border insurgence to be consistant regarding their call for addressing borders (e.g Iraq) and security (US), cant have it both ways,,,,.

[Darksheare]

"So the chance for a Californian soldier in Iraq to get murdered is about 100 times higher than if he'd stayed at home." -viiince

Viiince, you really are a troll, aren't you.
Oh hey, let's recap viiinces statements!

"How do you prove a negative?

Ha! That's what Saddam said, too." -viiince
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1528123/posts?page=67#67

And let's not forget the post where you figured you might get a zot:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1524831/posts?page=37#37

[ReignOfError]

US soldiers in Iraq and the population of Iraq(2004): 2,2330,000
US soldiers killed in Iraq (2004): 848
--> rate of US soldiers killed in Iraq: 0.0037%

In conclusion, WorldNet Daily article pointed out a very real fact; The homicide rate in the Iraq conflict about the same as CA .

Only if you do not count dead Iraqi civilians, non-US coalition fatalities, NGO and aid workers and civilian contractors. You are talking about a population of 22 million, but ignoring all the fatalities that didn't occur among a population of 160,000. In other words, expanding on the BS statistical manipulation WND started.

[ReignOfError]

Iraq is an active war zone.
California is not.
The comparison has value.

Not really, unless it compares two things that are comparable. It's like saying that more people die in auto accidents than on Wednesdays.

[seastay]

We are talking about US deaths only, the homicide rate of US citizens is the same in Iraq as it is in California, but we hear more about Iraq than CA, this is what it says.

Now Some people may not think that it is important that many of the CA deaths are caused by illegal insurgents crossing the border, while many of the same think it is a big issue in Iraq. Why shouldn’t California be important too?

Or are these murders in CA and Iraq insignificant given the population size that is equivalent in both regions?

which is it? We can’t have it both ways.

[ReignOfError]

We are talking about US deaths only, the homicide rate of US citizens is the same in Iraq as it is in California

NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

Sorry to raise my voice, but that point does not seem to be getting through. You have twice as many times the number of homicides against Americans in California as deaths of American servicemen in Iraq.

California has 200 times the population of Americans as Iraq has. Ignoring for the moment all the complicating factors (number of non-citizens in California, number of non-citizens in the U.S. armed forces, number of non-violent deaths among the U.S. troops in Iraq, number of non-citizen California murder victims, number of American contractors and aid workers in Iraq, etc.), California has 1% of the homicide rate on Americans that Iraq has.

One percent is not equivalent to one hundred percent. If you cannot grasp that, I do not know what else I can say.

but we hear more about Iraq than CA, this is what it says.

That's a fanciful reading. I'm inclined to believe that "what it says" is what it says in the first paragraph of the WND story:

Recently released crime statistics show the homicide rate in California is 265 percent higher than the death rate suffered by U.S. and British military personnel in Iraq.

Which is pure, unmitigated and utter BS, written by people who are counting on their audience to not look at the numbers, or not to care as long as they're willing to uncritically accept the farcical claim that California is more dangerous than Iraq.

Or are these murders in CA and Iraq insignificant given the population size that is equivalent in both regions?

Remedial lesson in how to lie with statistics: Shift the population under investigation. Lets take the WND example at hand. For California, you have a population of 33 million people. Count all of the murders whose victims are among those 33 million people.

For Iraq, count 22 million people, but count only the homicides among the 160,000 American servicemen in the country. Pretend that the two are equivalent. The relevant population size for U.S. servicemen in Iraq is 160,000, period.

If you're going to broaden the population to the whole of Iraq, you also need to expand the homicide numbers to include Iraqi civilians, non-U.S. coalition fatalities, civilian aid workers, and ordinary domestic disputes and other criminal homicides that have nothing to do with the insurgency. that's without even getting into the question of how many people killed and claimed to be insurgents actually were.

WND's claim is like saying that because fewer left-handed lesbians were killed in California than the total number of homicides in Iowa, that Iowa is vastly more dangerous than California. The numbers are not equivalent on any level.