Posted on 12/03/2005 9:06:48 AM PST by ncountylee
BUMP
Bush is against amnesty and wants them to come out of the shadows so they can be deported later on.
ROFLMAO now that was funny! So giving illegals a visa and six years to leave is not amnesty? What do you call it? And coming out of the shadows, so they can be deported later? LOL. In six years they will have many ties to the US and no immigration judge will deport them.
Yeah. If I went to work in another country on a 6 year work visa I would understand that in 6 years me and mine would be leaving. That isn't going to happen here.
Yes. Lawyers, judges, the ACLU and the MSM all make it hard to identify who should be deported.
What?
Many illegals don't have ties to the U.S. now. Judges, lawyers the ACLU and the MSM don't make it tough now?
Bush says it isn't amnesty, then he goes on to describe an amnesty program. Congress allocated money for 2,000 border patrol. The Bush administration hired 200. Bush IS a man of his word. He's keeping his word to Presidente Fox.
Bush re-named the amnesty program a "guest worker" program, but it will only fly for John Kerry followers and gullible Bushbots like you.
We don't need an amnesty/guest worker program. We already have, based on the elitists' estimates, 11 million here. The actual number may be 2 to 3 times that. We need our borders enforced. Now.
Fortunately, the Dems poll numbers are even lower than Republicans'. I don't think we have to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. I believe we can force them to do what we want if we are vocal enough and don't buy into the "guest worker" BS. We're going to have to make sure our congress critters know we won't accept anything less. You know, just like we (genuine conservatives) did with the Harriet Miers nomination.
Having said that, I know that the Bush Plan has no chance of being enacted because the Immigration Caucus won't vote for it, the democrats won't vote for it, and there are 13+ senate republicans that won't vote for it.
Worse than that, no member of Congress will bother to introduce a bill written around the Bush Plan.
In his now-famous "lipstick on a pig" article published in March 04, Tancredo predicted that the bill that Congress produces will be worse than the Bush Plan.
Can you say Green Cards, hombre?
While there are a few freepers whose commitments genuinely DO spring primarily from a concern for law and sovereignty (you know who you are, I am not addressing you here, and you have my genuine respect), it is also true that the "main current" here who claim to be "not anti immigration, but anti ILLEGAL immigration" are simply sactimonious humbugs and liars. Their reactions here to this prove it. NOTHING is going to satisfy this bunch of xenophobes and crypto marxists except immediate deportation and border closure. "Then we can talk about a guest worker program, or expanding immigration quotas." Yeah, right.
Nevermind that US Bureau of Labor Statistics data on mean avg income in the US shows a steady upward trend for the last 15 years (actually longer, but it is tedious to download and extract the zip files, pull up the .xls files, sum the incomes and average them) That is right! We have over 10 million illegals living here and our unemployment rate is under 6 per cent and our wages are NOT declining, but these people still post the same false crap over and over about taking american jobs and the depressing nature of wage structure due to illegals.
Tne next lie is that "they are not assimilating" despite overwhelming evidence, documented here before that the rate of language acquisition, workforce integration, intermarriage outside their race/culture, and every other benchmark (except for university degrees. Latinos, especially Mexicans, tend to stay in blue collar jobs) reflects the same rate of assimilation as other immigrant groups of the past.
The next lie is "they don't pay taxes" despite studies showing that overwhelmingly that illegals work in service industry jobs where the alphabet taxes (SSI, FICA, MC, etc) are witheld, and that most illegals simply do not file for returns b/c they know the numbers are fake and are afraid. The IRS knows a good thing when it sees it and NEVER notifies ICE on this. Free money for the fed!
The next lie is that illegals have a higher crime rate than US citizens. IN fact, the rate of ILLEGAL HISPANICS (and lets face it the overwhelming majority of illegals here are hispanic) who commit crimes is less than 1/2 and closer to 1/3 of the percentage of US CITIZENS who commit crimes who are black. The true rates are lower than this, because crime stats don't tend to separate legal hispanics from illegal hispanice. Plus, this objection completely ignores the fact that every first generation of immigrants has higher crime rates than succeeding generations. This has been true with every group of immigrants.
Time to move on and wail about how the illegals crowd our domestic piggies from their rightful place at the federal and state slop troughs. I sometimes feel like the aliens in MARS ATTACKS! listening to Slim Whitman yodel. I wonder if my head will just explode if I hear anymore socialist drivel from supposed "conservative free market" persons whining about the illegals taking "our" benefits. I don't recall Pablo and Izabella voting from Oaxaca to institute California's nuthouse of socialist programs. WE did that. WE piggies who cant keep our grubby little hands out of our neighbor's back pockets are now whining because Enrique has found that pocket, too? Cry me a river.
If you (and I) are stupid enough to allow our elected officials to throw money in the streets, then don't bitch because some guy with brown skin and garlic breath bends over to pick it up. I personally applaud the "burden" on the socialist system, because the "burden" is going to hit sooner or later...., chain letters always fail and the sooner we go to an honest "pay as you go" system, the better. These type of complaints sound like someone griping cause the chain letter broke down before you could scam the downstream suckers.
You want to gripe about hospitals going broke? Look at Yazoo City MS (very few hispanics in YC, by the way, this mostly addressed blacks). The poor and indigent learned to use the hospital ER as their primary health care. Why? BECAUSE WE TRAINED THEM TO DO IT, Einstein! About a year ago, the county hospital sez to someone showing up at the hospital "is this a medical emergency?" "well, no, but my eye has this horrible ache, and " "Sorry, see your doctor. next?" "But I can't afford a doctor!" "then go to the health department. Next?" "But the health department is backed up" "yeah, so are we. And this is a place for LIFE THREATENING EMERGENCIES ONLY. We are required by law to check and see if your situation is a 'critical care emergency' if not, please move along. NEXT!" Arizona has instituted Prop 200. These kind of things are things you can do at the LOCAL level instead of expecting politicians to magically morph from whores who get power by spending your money to persons genuinely interested in wise use of public funds when it comes to the issue of immigration.
Tell ya what. I will put together a file for the immigraphobes, detailing the links to the studies on wages, assimilation, security threats on southern borders, taxpaying by illegals, crime stats on illegals, immigration percentages in the past, net "burden" by illegals, and the benefits of helping assimilate those here illegally vs deportation and closing the border. I will put this in tabular format and put the links in. Sound fair? We could call this the "SPECIAL TABLES FOR UNDERSTANDING" file, and when I see the lies I referenced above, I will just reference this file by its first letter acronym. I will promise to research my previous posts and pull the file together, if I can get a commitment from the immigraphobes not to post the same accusations again, if we agree that the data on the special file poste refutes it. Sound like a deal?
Warmly-- chronic loser (the tagline goes with the name)
In the interest of objectivity and truthfulness, you should be more specific instead of playing word games. The Bush plan is not a citizenship amnesty. If there is another part of the plan that is forgiving, then you should identify specifically what kind of amnesty it is.
Congress allocated money for 2,000 border patrol. The Bush administration hired 200.
Document that to be true or retract it.
One question, if 100% of the illegals are breaking the law by being here, how can the rate of crime for this group be lower than 100%?
Your analysis does raise some points that I will have to ponder. Thank you.
Democrats want full amnesty for all current and future illegals that is the position Kerry took and that is the position the party lead by Dean has taken.
Chronic_loser, you and your cheap labor, open borders agenda have been refuted so many times by so many others that it is ridiculous.
The core problem is that you want America to adopt a Latin American style feudal social order (and libertarianism carried to its logical conclusions is feudalism) because you see yourself as el jefe in the white suit behind the fortified walls. Indeed, the social order of Mexico is collapsing before our very eyes into feudalism with strong men, "castles", and private armies. You want to turn America into a nation of lords and peons for your own swinish selfishness.
A dog howling at the moon is not a refutation of the physics of geosynchronous orbit. What did you think of my special file. You were actually one of those special persons I had in mind when I offered to post it. It might take a little time, but I will post it for you, if we can come to an agreement.
Cordially, cl
You want a feudal America. I do not.
Well, the solution is simple, then.
The President needs to get onboard with a real plan that:
A) Closes the border immediately, if not sooner. (We all know this can be done if the political will exists to do so.)
B) Enforces current laws against hiring illegals, punishing scofflaw employers to the fullest extent of the law.
C) Implements real interior enforcement.
D) Does NOT reward illegal behavior with the blessings of America's freedom and economic prosperity.
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