How the Anti-Evolution Debate Has Evolved

History News Network ^ | 20 December 2005 | Charles A. Israel

[Thatcherite]

People who cite sources of the quotes they provide are not plagerists. [sic] You need some new material

But you didn't cite the source of your material as an essay by James Bancroft that the whole thing has just been cut-and-pasted from, so either you are James Bancroft, or you plagiarised that essay from him, or he plagiarised it from you.

[jennyp]

Sagital crest, number5 of teeth, shape of jawbone

THOSE are the features that you consider to differentiate between apes & humans??? Wow.

Our old cat, Lightbulb (RIP), had always had a saggittal crest. Our younger cat, Neko, does not. I once knew a kid in HS who had two rows of teeth (4 in all), and IIRC a common dental problem is when you have too many teeth for your mouth. (Not referring to wisdom teeth; it's something else.) And there's large variation in the shape of people's jawbones. Compare Richard Kiel vs. Bobby Darin.

  

[Quark2005]

I would safely bet that over 90% of all fossils are from the Flood.

Strangely, I've never heard the creationist explanation for how the Flood accounts for the sudden yet meticulous replacement of bone tissue by hardened stone. I've always been dying to hear this one.

[Thatcherite]

Strangely, I've never heard the creationist explanation for how the Flood accounts for the sudden yet meticulous replacement of bone tissue by hardened stone. I've always been dying to hear this one.

I like the "running for higher ground" argument used to explain the differing levels creatures are found at. I've yet to see it explained how it applies to the similar stratification of plantlife.

[Quark2005]

I like the "running for higher ground" argument used to explain the differing levels creatures are found at.

It all makes sense now. The running animals must have been "petrified" with fear.

[bobdsmith]

If you point that out then they just add more ad-hoc factors. Soon stratification of fossils becomes a consequence of several factors from ability to run up hill, weight of the organism, density, surface area, etc etc. It works great as an obfuscation tactic.

[Coyoteman]

If you point that out then they just add more ad-hoc factors. Soon stratification of fossils becomes a consequence of several factors from ability to run up hill, weight of the organism, density, surface area, etc etc. It works great as an obfuscation tactic.

Here are some more problems for global flood advocates to address:

Problems with a Global Flood, Second Edition, by Mark Isaak

[bobdsmith]

lets face it advocation of that is becoming more rare. I remember a time when every other person was a flood geology advocate. Nowadays it's Intelligent Design, ie secular creationism, that is all the rage. A pity, as in my opinion Intelligent Design isn't quite as exciting as creationism is.

[bobdsmith]

and I realise i can't use commas correctly before someone points it out

[b_sharp]

"Now, tell me, what features that I just listed show in these non-scale pictures?"

I take it this group of pictures is all the fossil information available.

[RaceBannon]

LOL!!

In almost all of those cases, I would bet that the entire fossil shown in the picture is missing most of the fossil itself in the actual evidence!

[Coyoteman]

LOL!! In almost all of those cases, I would bet that the entire fossil shown in the picture is missing most of the fossil itself in the actual evidence!

Not sure what you mean by that. There is a lot of evidence. Here is one example.

This is specimen "KNM-WT 15000." The KNM stands for Kenya National Museum, and the WT stands for West Turkana. The number, 15,000 is the number assigned; this suggests there are 14,999 previous specimens of one kind or another. And in some of the specimens you see ER, for East Rudolph, another area. There are thousands of specimens from there also. Multiply this by many areas all over Africa, and to a lesser degree in Europe and Asia as well, and you begin to see how much there actually is in the fossil record.

---

Fossil: KNM-WT 15000

Site: Nariokotome, West Turkana, Kenya (1)

Discovered By: K. Kimeu, 1984 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.6 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7, 10), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Male (based on pelvis, browridge) (1, 8, 9)

Cranial Capacity: 880 (909 as adult) cc (1)

Information: Most complete early hominid skeleton (80 bones and skull) (1, 8)

Interpretation: Hairless and dark pigmented body (based on environment, limb proportions) (7, 8, 9). Juvenile (9-12 based on 2nd molar eruption and unfused growth plates) (1, 3, 4, 7, 8). Juvenile (8 years old based on recent studies on tooth development) (27). Incapable of speech (based on narrowing of spinal canal in thoracic region) (1)

Nickname: Turkana Boy (1), Nariokotome Boy

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=38

[RaceBannon]

oK, i'LL REPHRASE

iS THAT THE ENTIRE SKULL THAT WAS FOUND, OR

IS THAT A PLASTER CAST OF WHAT WAS FOUND, WITH PLASTER ADDED TO MAKE THE SKULL APPEAR COMPLETE?

Sorry, Caplock, Im doing CAD at home now

[Thatcherite]

lets face it advocation of that is becoming more rare. I remember a time when every other person was a flood geology advocate. Nowadays it's Intelligent Design, ie secular creationism, that is all the rage. A pity, as in my opinion Intelligent Design isn't quite as exciting as creationism is.

The YEC's are still all here. They just bang on about ID because they think it sounds scientific. In reality most Freepers who post in support of ID reject virtually everything that Behe, Denton, or Dembski acknowledge (common descent of all life on earth, great age of the earth, no global flood, no physical evidence of Designer intervention for 100'sMyears).

[Coyoteman]

iS THAT THE ENTIRE SKULL THAT WAS FOUND, OR

IS THAT A PLASTER CAST OF WHAT WAS FOUND, WITH PLASTER ADDED TO MAKE THE SKULL APPEAR COMPLETE?

The normal practice is to fill in missing pieces of a skull with a different color material. This shows pretty clearly in the picture I posted in #227.

When casts are made--most are now plastics rather than plaster--the areas missing in the original are also color coded in the same way. Usually no attempt is made to fill in detail in these missing areas--just blank plaster or plastic.

This shows pretty clearly in the specimen below; the gray areas are missing.

---

Fossil: KNM-ER 3733 Site: Koobi Fora (Upper KBS tuff, area 104), Lake Turkana, Kenya (4, 1)

Discovered By: B. Ngeneo, 1975 (1)

Estimated Age of Fossil: 1.75 mya * determined by Stratigraphic, faunal, paleomagnetic & radiometric data (1, 4)

Species Name: Homo ergaster (1, 7, 8), Homo erectus (3, 4, 7), Homo erectus ergaster (25)

Gender: Female (species presumed to be sexually dimorphic) (1, 8)

Cranial Capacity: 850 cc (1, 3, 4)

Information: Tools found in same layer (8, 9). Found with KNM-ER 406- A. boisei (effectively eliminating single species hypothesis) (1)

Interpretation: Adult (based on cranial sutures, molar eruption and dental wear) (1)

See original source for notes:
Source: http://www.mos.org/evolution/fossils/fossilview.php?fid=33

[RaceBannon]

Nice Ape.

How do they know the broken sharp stone are tools? Was there a handle strapped to one of them?

Too much guessing called science, this specimen in invalid.

[whattajoke]

You're the best. You're also an "ape."

[spinestein]

[I send my kids to a Christian School were Evolution in taught in the Science class and they learn about the Creator in Religion. It's just no big deal when Science and Religion both have a voice.]


That describes my schooling and I think I'm better off for learning both views.

But I can't see public school teachers teaching the subject of religion as being a good thing.