Skip to comments.Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz
(CNSNews.com) - Having ascended to the national stage as one of the most vocal critics of President Bush's handling of the war in Iraq, Pennsylvania Democratic Congressman John Murtha has long downplayed the controversy and the bitterness surrounding the two Purple Hearts he was awarded for military service in Vietnam.
Murtha is a retired marine and was the first Vietnam combat veteran elected to Congress. Since 1967, there have been at least three different accounts of the injuries that purportedly earned Murtha his Purple Hearts. Those accounts also appear to conflict with the limited military records that are available, and Murtha has thus far refused to release his own military records.
A Cybercast News Service investigation also reveals that one of Murtha's former Democratic congressional colleagues and a fellow decorated Vietnam veteran, Don Bailey of Pennsylvania, alleges that Murtha admitted during an emotional conversation on the floor of the U.S. House in the early 1980s that he did not deserve his Purple Hearts.
"[Murtha] is putting himself forward as some combat veteran with serious wounds and he's using that and it's dishonest and it's wrong," Bailey told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 9. Murtha served in the Marines on active duty and in the reserves from 1952 until his retirement as a colonel in 1990. He volunteered for service in Vietnam and was a First Marine Regiment intelligence officer in 1966 and 1967.
Murtha and Bailey, once allies, were forced to run against each other in a Democratic congressional primary in 1982 following redistricting. Murtha won the election.
Murtha has, in the past, publicly dismissed any questions about whether he deserved his two Purple Hearts, noting during his 1994 congressional campaign that "I am proud of my service in Vietnam."
In his Friday, Jan. 13, response to the Cybercast News Service investigation, Murtha again defended his military record.
"Questions about my record are clearly an attempt to distract attention from the real issue, which is that our brave men and women in uniform are dying and being injured every day in the middle of a civil war that can be resolved only by the Iraqis themselves," Murtha wrote in an email response.
"I volunteered for a year's duty in Vietnam. I was out in the field almost every single day. We took heavy casualties in my regiment the year that I was there. In my fitness reports, I was rated No. 1. My record is clear," Murtha added.
However, another source, World War II Navy veteran Harry M. Fox, previously indicated that Murtha in 1968 personally asked Fox's boss, then-U.S. Rep. John Saylor (R-Pa.), for assistance in obtaining the Purple Hearts, but was turned down because Saylor's office determined that Murtha lacked sufficient evidence of wounds. Murtha later challenged Saylor for his House seat in 1968 and lost. Fox said he personally viewed Murtha's military records in 1968 as Saylor's aide.
When Saylor died in 1973, Fox attempted to succeed his boss in Congress, but was narrowly defeated by Murtha in a 1974 special election.
"Pretending to be a big war hero and boasting about having medals is a slap in the face to our veterans who were seriously wounded or killed in action," Fox was quoted as telling the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Nov. 1, 1996 edition. "He campaigned as a war hero and I've never seen any documentation that he earned any of these honors," Fox reportedly stated.
On Friday, Jan. 13, Murtha's congressional communications director provided Cybercast News Service with a copy of a letter from the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, citing Murtha's request of Sept. 26, 1967, seeking Purple Hearts. Cybercast News Service did not authenticate the letter.
"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action against insurgent Communist Guerrilla forces on 22 March and 7 May 1967 in the Republic of Vietnam," according to the letter signed by an individual identified only as A. Gardoni. Gardoni's title is not listed on the letter.
Cybercast News Service attempted to contact Fox for this article, but learned that the health of the 81-year-old was too poor to allow him to communicate. But in a 1996 newspaper article, Fox questioned whether Murtha deserved his Purple Hearts, alleging that there was insufficient evidence of injuries and that Murtha was never confined to a hospital.
"Of course Congressman Saylor wanted to help if he could, but there was nothing in the service record to indicate the wounds were of any severity and the documents specifically indicated that next of kin was not notified in either instance," Fox told the Herald-Standard in 1996. "We were amazed that Mr. Murtha was asking for Purple Hearts for superficial lacerations," he added.
Murtha's accounts of his Vietnam War wounds may also conflict with the available U.S. Marine medical records obtained by the media.
The Pittsburgh Post-Gazette on May 12, 2002, reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967, and May 7, 1967.
"In the first incident, his right cheek was lacerated, and in the second, he was lacerated above his left eye. Neither injury required evacuation," the Post-Gazette reported.
But an Oct. 26, 1994, article in the Herald-Standard quoted Murtha as describing two different injuries.
"I was wounded in the arm with shrapnel from a bullet that hit the motor mount of a helicopter. In the other, my knee was banged up and my arm was banged up when a helicopter was shot down from a very few feet," Murtha told the Herald-Standard.
A June 1, 1967 report in the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat quoted a letter that the newspaper indicated was sent by Murtha to his wife that same year. The letter apparently detailed yet another version of how Murtha qualified for one of his Purple Hearts. According to the Johnstown Tribune-Democrat, Murtha's injuries involved his being "struck in the ankle" by a "shot that ricocheted off the helicopter."
Murtha, a 16-term congressman from southwestern Pennsylvania and the senior Democrat on the House Appropriations Committee, drew national attention on Nov. 17, 2005, when he called for an immediate withdrawal of American forces from Iraq.
The Vietnam veteran even took a swipe at President Bush and Vice President Cheney, neither of whom have actual combat experience.
"I like guys who've never been there, who criticize us who've been there," Murtha said. "I like that. I like guys who got five deferments and never been there and sent people to war and then don't like to hear suggestions that what may need to be done."
Murtha discussed his own combat experience as a marine intelligence officer in his 2004 autobiography, "From Vietnam to 9/11: On the Front Lines of National Security."
"I had been awake more than twenty-four hours by the time we landed. A few hours into the battle, an on-again-off-again event, I could no longer keep my eyes open. I curled up next to a bunker and fell into a deep sleep for about an hour. Even the noise of frequent gunfire didn't wake me up. (One of my fellow officers told me the next morning that when he hadn't seen me for an hour or so, he assumed I was dead,)" Murtha wrote of one of his Vietnam combat experiences on page 14 of the 2004 paperback edition of his book. Murtha's two Purple Hearts are referenced on the back of the book.
In addition to his Purple Hearts, Murtha received the Vietnamese Cross for Gallantry and the Bronze Star with combat "V" for service in the 1st Marine Division in Vietnam. Murtha also served in the Marines during the Korean War but did not serve in Korea, according to his book.
'He's a phony and a liar'
Bailey said during the time Murtha was being investigated for his role in the Abscam FBI sting in 1980, Murtha made a confession on the House floor.
... you admitted, back in our corner, that you didn't earn your purple hearts (sic) (you indicated you had small scratch on your cheek that wasn't even directly related to an APC [Armored Personnel Carrier] that ran over a small antipersonnel mine that was behind you). The other purple heart [sic] you even declined to explain," wrote Bailey in an open letter dated May 5, 2002.
Bailey is also a decorated Vietnam combat veteran. He served in the U.S. Army's 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions and was awarded a Silver Star and three Bronze Stars.
"At the time (of Murtha's alleged admission), you were feeling particularly vulnerable because it wasn't too long after you had called me crying and sobbing, thanking me for 'saving your life' before the ethics committee (on Abscam-related charges). There was no doubt in my mind that you were expressing to me that you did not believe you did anything sufficient to earn the purple heart [sic] and that you didn't want to be active in my efforts to laud Vietnam veterans that served with us," Bailey wrote in his May 2002 letter.
"You may deny that all you wish -- but you and I know that that conversation took place," he added.
In the Jan. 9 interview with Cybercast News Service Bailey affirmed the contents of his 2002 letter.
"The issue here is this idea or pretense that [Murtha] knows combat and he's got two Purple Hearts. He's a phony and a liar," Bailey said.
Bailey also questioned why Murtha has thus far declined to release his full military records in order to clear up the controversy.
"The Marine Corps ought to be able to produce all the orders, the medical stuff, the citations and the orders granting [the Purple Hearts] and everything else. Where is that stuff?" he asked.
According to a May 16, 2002, edition of the Washington, Pa., Observer-Reporter, Murtha "produced military paperwork indicating he was entitled to the awards," and a Murtha spokesperson was quoted as saying that "the media for years has investigated 'and found nothing.'"
But Murtha's paperwork did nothing to sway Bailey's opinion.
"You may fool a few reporters into believing that merely because you got some perfunctory paperwork made out by a friend, that that means you earned the purple hearts [sic]. But even if you were awarded the medals later, there should be affidavits from witnesses. These things should be easy to get," Bailey wrote in his letter while demanding an apology from Murtha for questioning his credibility.
Murtha could end the controversy at any time, Bailey added, simply by calling a press conference and producing the evidence of his wounds.
"Explain where you were and what you were doing when you got the purple hearts.[sic] Explain who was with you and treated your wounds, but most important, Jack, describe your wounds or the lack thereof, as you did for me, years ago," Bailey wrote.
"Unless the Marine Corps gives out medals for unsubstantiated noncombat-related telltale scratches, procured for use in political campaign -- then show me the money, Jack," Bailey added.
Murtha: 'I'm proud of my service in Vietnam'
During the 1994 congressional campaign against GOP opponent Dr. William Choby, Murtha's two Purple Hearts became a political issue.
"Explain your Purple Hearts. He (Murtha) used them to get elected," Choby charged in 1994.
In responding to the charges, Murtha claimed that he "didn't ask for the Purple Hearts.
"I'm proud of my service in Vietnam. I don't know if he (Choby) served in the service at all. I left my family and my business to serve in Vietnam. My family made great sacrifice for me to make that service in Vietnam, so I'm very proud of that," he told the Uniontown Herald-Standard in the newspaper's Oct. 26, 1994 edition.
"I am disappointed that a guy (Choby) would say something like that when I volunteered in the reserves and I felt it was important that I go. What's the point in all this? It's irritating," Murtha added.
Choby also challenged the validity of Murtha's Bronze Star with Combat 'V' during the 1996 congressional campaign.
"I find it very curious that Combat 'V' doesn't even exist in any of the materials he had distributed," Choby was quoted as saying in the Herald-Standard of Oct. 13, 1996. "His military record improves over the years," he added.
The Murtha controversy is reminiscent of the flap surrounding the war record of 2004 Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry. But while critics like the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth attacked Kerry in 2004 because of his anti-war activism of the 1970s, Murtha's three chief accusers all made their allegations years and in some cases decades before Murtha emerged last November as a prominent anti-war activist.
Choby told Cybercast News Service on Jan. 5 that Murtha's entire political career is based on his war record. "Without that credibility of those combat medals, he would have never been elected to office," Choby said.
(Monisha Bansal also contributed to this article.)
Read Article About Murtha's Links to Abscam
" A May 12, 2002, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967 and May 7, 1967."
Ahhh...Someone has their dates wrong.
From Murtha's website http://www.house.gov/murtha/awards.shtml#military
Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.
Purple Heart, 1966.
Purple Heart, second award, 1966.
Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.
Hey Tonk.....I got your 6....keep up the good work...
Yes...fascinating isn't it?
Going down this road could open an interesting can of worms. I returned from my second trip to Iraq last week. There are guys in my unit with Purple Hearts for which most of us are hard-pressed to recall what "wounds" they were given out for. Some are extremely questionable - one guy had temporary hearing loss from an IED that detonated near him; one guy got a tiny cut (I guess "laceration" sounds more impressive) when a VBIED detonated against our patrol base; one guy had a ricochet hit his elbow pad (not his elbow) - I suppose it caused a bruise - and there are lots of others. A few guys are getting Purple Hearts because they were in vehicles that were struck by IEDs and they were "shaken up" and sent to the Foward Aid Station as a precaution, to make sure nothing was wrong. There are some high-ranking officers with Purple Hearts that many of us find ourselves scratching our heads over.
When we start belittling the Purple Hearts for Murtha and questioning whether he deserves them, there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands, of current OIF and OEF veterans who will be quick to notice that Murtha is equally deserving as they are. I'm curious what the reaction will be.
Neither am I.....
However - I'd just like to get the record straight on poseurs who use a false history to justify treasonous behavior while serving as a U.S. Congressman.
In my view - his CURRENT behavior sets him up as a legitimate target....and that opens his Pandora's Box to view....
I also dispute your point that "Bum a Smoke?" rises to the level of "Semper Fi"
"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action...
Isn't the second award of a PH marked by an Oak Leaf Cluster?
Rodger that....good point...as I posted earlier...liars have a way of exposing themselves...just like his buddy Kerry. Thanks for the post..
It depends on the branch of service. Army Purple Hearts have an Oak Leaf Cluster as the second award. I think the Marines and Navy use a Gold Star. The Coast Guard uses stars as subsequent awards also.
No one liked the fact that I had oak leaves on my Army ribbons and stars on my Coastie ribbons on the same ribbon bar, even after the explanation of wearing the awards as they were presented.
First, I want to thank you for your service.
Next, when and if any of the present PH recipients decide to run for public office and put their war records and PH's out there as campaign material then I and others will want to see their war records...so everyone be advised and be prepared!
We've had enough of Kerry "Band-Aid PH's" and "wannabe" heroes to last us all a lifetime.
"LOL - works for me! You can just toss those hugs over this way! He he he!!"
Now yer talkin'!! *HUGS* :-)
Eat yer heart out, Tonk!! lol
C7/CV 2 pilot or Mohawk?
Flew U-21's in Vietnam.....we had a dual mission...hauling folks and also a Radio Relay mission, which was boring as hell for the most part...but could upon crazy times become less than boring..
I think his military service should be left alone. I'm sure that he put his life on the line during his military service just like many others did.
As far as present day matters are concerned, that is a different story. I think that Murtha has made some very irresponsible and dangerous comments, and the fact that he did serve in the military should not make him immune to criticism and attack. Stick to what he's doing now instead of dredging up material from years ago that will only reflect badly on those who are trying to make an issue out of it.
And they did get it suspened, for a few hours, because of my opinions on this very thread.
This was the 1st time since I've been on FR that I've been silenced for voicing my opinion.
I know it wasn't Jim Robinson but this certain poster and their "hired help"
Jim : If you read this I have the exact FReep mails I was sent and my replies.
Here's a pic of Murtha (I'm 99.99% sure it's him) sitting in the VFW audience while President Bush spoke awhile back. It was a headline story over at DU.
I'm behind you, Tonk, 100%!
It is amazing to me....the folks who have never served in the military...much less being Vietnam Vets...always wan't to give Murtha a pass...I say...WHY...please explain why it is OK to be a liar about your combat record...???
I am not surprised, Tonk.
But I am very, very sorry.
I don't think I need to tell you, but I'm going to anyway.
I love ya, man.
Did you ever know that you're my hero
And everything I would like to be
If I can fly higher than an eagle
You are the wind beneath my wings
Sorry for getting sentimental, but I mean every word of it.
I've been so worried for this generation, since before the election. When Swift Vets wouldn't continue the fight to permanently stop this insanity, I got a bit upset. I moved over here. And you've been my rock. Thank you for that.
Other volunteer missions on a C47 going to Hong Kong bringing back war essentials like pop corn for the base theater and furniture for the wing commander.
My real job was riding the launch truck supporting F100 lead sleds if they had COMM/NAV troubles prior to launch.
That guy is wearing all kinds of Army paraphenalia so it's probably not Murtha.
I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations.
You're sooooo good for my ego!
sorry to hear about your little episode today..thanks for the ping
now what would be your second notion???.....given by your own confession that you were never there....
I''m fascinated by the 23 year period after Viet Nam where he lists no deployments, no major awards and only two promotions????????What the hell was going on?
His current behavior is despicable. I would prefer to let it define itself.
I also dispute your point that "Bum a Smoke?" rises to the level of "Semper Fi"
No, it doesnt. But other than "where's the bar", "do you think we're going to Australia", "shut up jarhead", and "stop hitting me jarhead", I can't recall having any other sayings :)
I'm not happy about someone inflating their injuries to get a medal, and to use that false record to gain political office. Not happy at all.
It's just that I hate to kick a Vietnam vet, forty years after the fact. Kerry was another story, the Dems had already attacked Bush with many false reports about being AWOL, etc. SO, Kerry was fair game.
Murtha is a lesser fish. He's just an attack dog for the Democratic party.
Thank you for serving our country! You have my respect and gratitude!
Oh, it's him alright. Most internet folks just knew how to delete it. Go ahead, try to find that pic via google.
I just happened to save it first - before it got tossed.
You can go 23 years as an Officer in the reserves with just two promotions?
VFW post 10281 is from Kentucky.
Gee, I'm not sure. I know a guy who served four years active and got out as a private.............
(nobody I"M related to, LOL!)
"I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations."
I'm of two minds about these accusations. My inclination is to say, let's not go there. The man served in Vietnam, he should be honored for that service.
I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations.
Murtha is not beyond questions being raised about his military past if he uses it for his own personal gain.
do you have one of those decoder ring things?
Not exactly...The message is announcing this years promotion board. I noticed time in grade eligibilty is 3 years from 04 to 05 and 3 years from 05 to 06. I thought after failing to promote twice, an officer was forced to seperate.
I just a retired Senior Chief so some of the Officer types will have to explain how Murtha could continue to stay with just two promotions in 23 years.
I didn't think liberals liked military people, so why do they want guys like Murtha to be seen as military heroes?
"That guy is wearing all kinds of Army paraphenalia"
Yup, I met those some phonies, also.
We all have, eh?
If folks reaaaally want to find info, check out www.hadit.com
Nice to see old friends...
Definition. A "wound" is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent, sustained while in action as described in the eligibility requirements. A physical lesion is not required, provided the concussion or other form of injury received was a result of the action in which engaged.
Limitations. Except in the case of a prisoner of war, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer at the time of injury. Only one award is authorized for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent. Prisoners of war, if entitled, will be limited to a single Purple Heart covering the entire period of their captivity.
Subsequent awards are denoted by gold and silver stars.
Sea services (USMC is a sea service) use "stars" to indicate multiple awards of the same medal. Army and Air Force use "oak leaf clusters". When a serviceman is awarded the same decoration on multiple occasions by different services (as Delta 21 experienced), the device used to indicate each subsequent award is dictated by the awarding authority. So oak leaf clusters and stars can appear on the same ribbon.
A few other information items which will be of use in wading through Representative Murtha's medal controversy; there is no time limit for submission of recommendation for the "Purple Heart", and the Bronze "V" device for certain awards such as the Bronze Star is correctly termed the "Combat Distinguishing Device".
These decorations are awarded for service to the country while part of its armed forces. They range from "I was there" to "extraordinary heroism". They are a very personal history and should be never be "used". Those who have received these distinctions should be proud.
Those who falsely claim them should be reviled.
Yes, he signed it but only for the one person/author who wrote a favorable book for him (stolen valor, I think). So in effect, NO he didn't sign it for those of us that would report the facts straight forward, but did sign it so he could say that he did sign it.
Kerry Hangs Back From Disclosure to All
The NY Sun June 9, 2005 Josh Gerstein
Did Kerry really release Navy records?
Chicagao Sun Times June 9, 2005 THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB
Hey you know he did "intel" in Saigon's red light district
and was "injured" in the form of an STD....of course you know that tale is "fake but accurate"
cuing Mary Mapes!Helloooooooooo.....!
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