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Murtha's War Hero Status Called Into Question
cnsnews.com ^ | 1/13/05 | By Marc Morano and Randy Hall

Posted on 01/13/2006 11:53:53 AM PST by paltz

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To: Wristpin

" A May 12, 2002, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette article reported that "Marine Corps casualty records show that Murtha was injured in 'hostile' actions near Danang, Vietnam, on March 22, 1967 and May 7, 1967."

Ahhh...Someone has their dates wrong.
From Murtha's website http://www.house.gov/murtha/awards.shtml#military

Bronze Star with Combat V, 1966.

Purple Heart, 1966.

Purple Heart, second award, 1966.

Vietnamese Cross of Galantry, 1966.


401 posted on 01/14/2006 5:02:22 PM PST by Wild Irish Rogue
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Hey Tonk.....I got your 6....keep up the good work...


402 posted on 01/14/2006 5:06:15 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: Wild Irish Rogue

Yes...fascinating isn't it?


403 posted on 01/14/2006 5:15:58 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: kellynla

Going down this road could open an interesting can of worms. I returned from my second trip to Iraq last week. There are guys in my unit with Purple Hearts for which most of us are hard-pressed to recall what "wounds" they were given out for. Some are extremely questionable - one guy had temporary hearing loss from an IED that detonated near him; one guy got a tiny cut (I guess "laceration" sounds more impressive) when a VBIED detonated against our patrol base; one guy had a ricochet hit his elbow pad (not his elbow) - I suppose it caused a bruise - and there are lots of others. A few guys are getting Purple Hearts because they were in vehicles that were struck by IEDs and they were "shaken up" and sent to the Foward Aid Station as a precaution, to make sure nothing was wrong. There are some high-ranking officers with Purple Hearts that many of us find ourselves scratching our heads over.

When we start belittling the Purple Hearts for Murtha and questioning whether he deserves them, there are going to be hundreds, if not thousands, of current OIF and OEF veterans who will be quick to notice that Murtha is equally deserving as they are. I'm curious what the reaction will be.


404 posted on 01/14/2006 5:17:09 PM PST by Axhandle
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To: kerryusama04
"I'm just not cool that we smear every war-vet Moonbat that comes along."

Neither am I.....

However - I'd just like to get the record straight on poseurs who use a false history to justify treasonous behavior while serving as a U.S. Congressman.

In my view - his CURRENT behavior sets him up as a legitimate target....and that opens his Pandora's Box to view....

I also dispute your point that "Bum a Smoke?" rises to the level of "Semper Fi"

Semper Fi

405 posted on 01/14/2006 5:18:43 PM PST by river rat (You may turn the other cheek, but I prefer to look into my enemy's vacant dead eyes.)
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To: paltz
Now, I know I'm late to this thread and forgive me if someone has already brought this up, but :

"The records of this Headquarters show that you are entitled to the Purple Heart and a Gold Star in lieu of a second Purple Heart for wounds received in action...

Isn't the second award of a PH marked by an Oak Leaf Cluster?

406 posted on 01/14/2006 5:20:28 PM PST by Snickersnee (Where are we going? And what's with this handbasket?)
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To: paltz

Bumpforlater


407 posted on 01/14/2006 5:21:29 PM PST by gridlock (eliminate perverse incentives)
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To: Snickersnee
Isn't the second award of a PH marked by an Oak Leaf Cluster?

Rodger that....good point...as I posted earlier...liars have a way of exposing themselves...just like his buddy Kerry. Thanks for the post..

408 posted on 01/14/2006 5:25:33 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: Snickersnee

It depends on the branch of service. Army Purple Hearts have an Oak Leaf Cluster as the second award. I think the Marines and Navy use a Gold Star. The Coast Guard uses stars as subsequent awards also.

No one liked the fact that I had oak leaves on my Army ribbons and stars on my Coastie ribbons on the same ribbon bar, even after the explanation of wearing the awards as they were presented.


409 posted on 01/14/2006 5:32:37 PM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: Axhandle

First, I want to thank you for your service.

Next, when and if any of the present PH recipients decide to run for public office and put their war records and PH's out there as campaign material then I and others will want to see their war records...so everyone be advised and be prepared!

We've had enough of Kerry "Band-Aid PH's" and "wannabe" heroes to last us all a lifetime.

Semper Fi,
Kelly


410 posted on 01/14/2006 5:35:24 PM PST by kellynla (Freedom of speech makes it easier to spot the idiots. Semper Fi!)
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To: StarCMC

"LOL - works for me! You can just toss those hugs over this way! He he he!!"

Now yer talkin'!! *HUGS* :-)

Eat yer heart out, Tonk!! lol


411 posted on 01/14/2006 5:41:15 PM PST by Howie66 ("America will never seek a permission slip to defend the security of our people.")
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

C7/CV 2 pilot or Mohawk?


412 posted on 01/14/2006 5:50:19 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: river rat
Big Bump to #320 !!
413 posted on 01/14/2006 5:51:07 PM PST by Delta 21 (MKC USCG-ret)
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To: afnamvet

Flew U-21's in Vietnam.....we had a dual mission...hauling folks and also a Radio Relay mission, which was boring as hell for the most part...but could upon crazy times become less than boring..


414 posted on 01/14/2006 5:58:47 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: dirtboy

I think his military service should be left alone. I'm sure that he put his life on the line during his military service just like many others did.

As far as present day matters are concerned, that is a different story. I think that Murtha has made some very irresponsible and dangerous comments, and the fact that he did serve in the military should not make him immune to criticism and attack. Stick to what he's doing now instead of dredging up material from years ago that will only reflect badly on those who are trying to make an issue out of it.


415 posted on 01/14/2006 6:01:44 PM PST by fox0566
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; ALOHA RONNIE; mhking; Vets_Husband_and_Wife; MeekOneGOP; jmstein7; ...
I survived an attack today by someone on this forum trying to silence me by getting my account suspended.

And they did get it suspened, for a few hours, because of my opinions on this very thread.

This was the 1st time since I've been on FR that I've been silenced for voicing my opinion.

I know it wasn't Jim Robinson but this certain poster and their "hired help"

Jim : If you read this I have the exact FReep mails I was sent and my replies.

UNBELIEVABLE!

Here's a pic of Murtha (I'm 99.99% sure it's him) sitting in the VFW audience while President Bush spoke awhile back. It was a headline story over at DU.

Image hosted by Photobucket.com

I'm behind you, Tonk, 100%!

416 posted on 01/14/2006 6:05:48 PM PST by JLO (www.operationminnesotanice.com)
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To: fox0566

It is amazing to me....the folks who have never served in the military...much less being Vietnam Vets...always wan't to give Murtha a pass...I say...WHY...please explain why it is OK to be a liar about your combat record...???


417 posted on 01/14/2006 6:05:56 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I am not surprised, Tonk.
But I am very, very sorry.

I don't think I need to tell you, but I'm going to anyway.
I love ya, man.


418 posted on 01/14/2006 6:07:13 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

Did you ever know that you're my hero
And everything I would like to be
If I can fly higher than an eagle
You are the wind beneath my wings



Sorry for getting sentimental, but I mean every word of it.


419 posted on 01/14/2006 6:09:50 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

I've been so worried for this generation, since before the election. When Swift Vets wouldn't continue the fight to permanently stop this insanity, I got a bit upset. I moved over here. And you've been my rock. Thank you for that.


420 posted on 01/14/2006 6:12:05 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom, Aunt, Sister, Friend, Wife, Daughter, Niece)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
I and others in the COMM/NAV shop (AF) volunteered for aircrew on ac119 (gun ship) missions.....too much brass flying around in the fuselage fron the minis for me..LOL.

Other volunteer missions on a C47 going to Hong Kong bringing back war essentials like pop corn for the base theater and furniture for the wing commander.

My real job was riding the launch truck supporting F100 lead sleds if they had COMM/NAV troubles prior to launch.

421 posted on 01/14/2006 6:13:06 PM PST by afnamvet
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To: JLO

That guy is wearing all kinds of Army paraphenalia so it's probably not Murtha.


422 posted on 01/14/2006 6:13:26 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: paltz
I'm of two minds about these accusations. My inclination is to say, let's not go there. The man served in Vietnam, he should be honored for that service.

I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations.

423 posted on 01/14/2006 6:16:43 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Howie66

LOL!!

You're sooooo good for my ego!


424 posted on 01/14/2006 6:19:22 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

sorry to hear about your little episode today..thanks for the ping


425 posted on 01/14/2006 6:20:53 PM PST by vigilante2 (I'm the proud parent of a soldier)
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To: Ciexyz
I'm of two minds about these accusations. My inclination is to say, let's not go there. The man served in Vietnam, he should be honored for that service

now what would be your second notion???.....given by your own confession that you were never there....

426 posted on 01/14/2006 6:21:18 PM PST by RVN Airplane Driver (Most Americans are so spoiled with freedom they have no idea what it takes to earn and keep it.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver

I''m fascinated by the 23 year period after Viet Nam where he lists no deployments, no major awards and only two promotions????????What the hell was going on?


427 posted on 01/14/2006 6:24:51 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: river rat
In my view - his CURRENT behavior sets him up as a legitimate target

His current behavior is despicable. I would prefer to let it define itself.

I also dispute your point that "Bum a Smoke?" rises to the level of "Semper Fi"

No, it doesnt. But other than "where's the bar", "do you think we're going to Australia", "shut up jarhead", and "stop hitting me jarhead", I can't recall having any other sayings :)

428 posted on 01/14/2006 6:25:22 PM PST by kerryusama04 (The Bill of Rights is not occupation specific.)
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To: RVN Airplane Driver
now what would be your second notion....

I'm not happy about someone inflating their injuries to get a medal, and to use that false record to gain political office. Not happy at all.

It's just that I hate to kick a Vietnam vet, forty years after the fact. Kerry was another story, the Dems had already attacked Bush with many false reports about being AWOL, etc. SO, Kerry was fair game.

Murtha is a lesser fish. He's just an attack dog for the Democratic party.

429 posted on 01/14/2006 6:28:14 PM PST by Ciexyz (Let us always remember, the Lord is in control.)
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To: Axhandle
I returned from my second trip to Iraq last week.

Thank you for serving our country! You have my respect and gratitude!

430 posted on 01/14/2006 6:30:16 PM PST by StarCMC (Old Sarge is my hero...doing it right in Iraq! Vaya con Dios, Sarge.)
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To: Wristpin

Oh, it's him alright. Most internet folks just knew how to delete it. Go ahead, try to find that pic via google.

I just happened to save it first - before it got tossed.


431 posted on 01/14/2006 7:14:50 PM PST by JLO (www.operationminnesotanice.com)
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To: Wristpin

Reserves.


432 posted on 01/14/2006 7:22:39 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: freema

You can go 23 years as an Officer in the reserves with just two promotions?


433 posted on 01/14/2006 7:27:15 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: JLO

VFW post 10281 is from Kentucky.


434 posted on 01/14/2006 7:30:12 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: Wristpin

Gee, I'm not sure. I know a guy who served four years active and got out as a private.............

(nobody I"M related to, LOL!)


435 posted on 01/14/2006 7:36:28 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Ciexyz; ALOHA RONNIE; mhking; Vets_Husband_and_Wife; 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub; MeekOneGOP; ...

"I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations."

---duh---


I'm of two minds about these accusations. My inclination is to say, let's not go there. The man served in Vietnam, he should be honored for that service.
I regret his current anti-war comments while our troops are in combat situations.


436 posted on 01/14/2006 7:37:29 PM PST by JLO (www.operationminnesotanice.com)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Several years ago I met a fellow that wrote a book called "Stolen Valor". After talking to him I've always taken any statements by anyone that actively pushes their military record with a grain of salt.

Murtha is not beyond questions being raised about his military past if he uses it for his own personal gain.

437 posted on 01/14/2006 7:39:36 PM PST by isthisnickcool (Quoting Hillary Clinton: "You know, you know, you know, you know.....")
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To: Wristpin

http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:0N5LIsA6wicJ:www.usmc.mil/maradmins/maradmin2000.nsf/0/312eaa57afcb869885256fd60000358d%3FOpenDocument+marine+reserve+officer+promotion+schedule&hl=en

do you have one of those decoder ring things?


438 posted on 01/14/2006 7:46:04 PM PST by freema (Proud Marine Mom)
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To: Dick Vomer

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/JLO101/Misc/bsdetector.jpg


439 posted on 01/14/2006 7:52:54 PM PST by JLO (www.operationminnesotanice.com)
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To: freema

Not exactly...The message is announcing this years promotion board. I noticed time in grade eligibilty is 3 years from 04 to 05 and 3 years from 05 to 06. I thought after failing to promote twice, an officer was forced to seperate.

I just a retired Senior Chief so some of the Officer types will have to explain how Murtha could continue to stay with just two promotions in 23 years.


440 posted on 01/14/2006 7:56:05 PM PST by Wristpin ("The Yankees have decided to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: paltz

I didn't think liberals liked military people, so why do they want guys like Murtha to be seen as military heroes?


441 posted on 01/14/2006 8:44:01 PM PST by mojojockey
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To: Wristpin

"That guy is wearing all kinds of Army paraphenalia"

Yup, I met those some phonies, also.

We all have, eh?

If folks reaaaally want to find info, check out www.hadit.com

Be real!








Nice to see old friends...


442 posted on 01/14/2006 9:03:54 PM PST by JLO (www.operationminnesotanice.com)
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
RE: "I survived an attack today by someone on this forum trying to silence me by getting my account suspended. And they did get it suspened, for a few hours,because of my opinions on this very thread."

Well, I suppose it's possible they won't like this one much either...


443 posted on 01/14/2006 9:07:55 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Benedict Arnold was a 'war hero' too... before he became a TRAITOR.)
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To: river rat

YES! ...and...
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1557630/posts?page=443#443


444 posted on 01/14/2006 9:10:54 PM PST by Seadog Bytes (Benedict Arnold was a 'war hero' too... before he became a TRAITOR.)
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To: Delta 21; Snickersnee
Here are relevant portions of the Navy Awards Manual pertaining to the "Purple Heart" which you may find of interest:

Definition. A "wound" is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent, sustained while in action as described in the eligibility requirements. A physical lesion is not required, provided the concussion or other form of injury received was a result of the action in which engaged.

Limitations. Except in the case of a prisoner of war, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer at the time of injury. Only one award is authorized for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent. Prisoners of war, if entitled, will be limited to a single Purple Heart covering the entire period of their captivity.

Subsequent awards are denoted by gold and silver stars.

Sea services (USMC is a sea service) use "stars" to indicate multiple awards of the same medal. Army and Air Force use "oak leaf clusters". When a serviceman is awarded the same decoration on multiple occasions by different services (as Delta 21 experienced), the device used to indicate each subsequent award is dictated by the awarding authority. So oak leaf clusters and stars can appear on the same ribbon.

A few other information items which will be of use in wading through Representative Murtha's medal controversy; there is no time limit for submission of recommendation for the "Purple Heart", and the Bronze "V" device for certain awards such as the Bronze Star is correctly termed the "Combat Distinguishing Device".

These decorations are awarded for service to the country while part of its armed forces. They range from "I was there" to "extraordinary heroism". They are a very personal history and should be never be "used". Those who have received these distinctions should be proud.

Those who falsely claim them should be reviled.

445 posted on 01/14/2006 9:25:48 PM PST by DakotaGator
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To: Mr. K
SPEAKING OF RELEASING HIS MILITARY RECORDS- DID J EFFIN KERRY RELEASE HIS LIKE HE PROMISED TO ON RUSSERT'S SHOW??

Yes, he signed it but only for the one person/author who wrote a favorable book for him (stolen valor, I think). So in effect, NO he didn't sign it for those of us that would report the facts straight forward, but did sign it so he could say that he did sign it.

446 posted on 01/14/2006 10:52:17 PM PST by LowOiL ("I am neither . I am a Christocrat" -Benjamin Rush)
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To: LowOiL; Mr. K

Kerry Hangs Back From Disclosure to All
The NY Sun June 9, 2005 Josh Gerstein

http://www.nysun.com/article/15135

Did Kerry really release Navy records?
Chicagao Sun Times June 9, 2005 THOMAS H. LIPSCOMB

http://www.suntimes.com/output/elect/cst-nws-lip09.html


447 posted on 01/14/2006 11:03:56 PM PST by 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub (Be wary of the "Move On FReepers" who scream and howl "Move On Tonk, Get Over It")
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub
Murthas awards were most likely political. (Surprised?)

Murthas two awards would have been from Democratic Governor Milton Shapp who at the time (1976) had a short lived run for the U.S. Presidency and most likely needed the help of a Democrat US Representative...


Distinguished Service Medal, Pennsylvania's highest honor, 1977.

Meritorious Service Medal, Pennsylvania's second-highest honor, 1976.

About this same time Murtha and then Governor Shapp met with President Carter to help get economic aid for the declining Pittsburgh steel industry.(CBS Evening News for Thursday, Nov 10, 1977)

They were just political favors.
448 posted on 01/15/2006 12:21:28 AM PST by tired&retired
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To: 68-69TonkinGulfYachtClub

BTTT


449 posted on 01/15/2006 3:10:25 AM PST by E.G.C.
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To: jocko12

Hey you know he did "intel" in Saigon's red light district
and was "injured" in the form of an STD....of course you know that tale is "fake but accurate"
cuing Mary Mapes!Helloooooooooo.....!


450 posted on 01/15/2006 4:07:05 AM PST by mdmathis6 (Proof against evolution:"Man is the only creature that blushes, or needs to" M.Twain)
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