Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?"

Rational Review ^ | January 16, 2006 | J. Neil Schulman

[Mr. Mojo]

The war is certainly not traditional, but it's very real.

[JasonC]

Author suffers from the delusion that there is any status or honor in being anybody else's enemy. And peddles the same ridiculous moral equivalence nonsense the director is selling. Nobody is buying, because it is nonsense. No, the Palis don't have a right to kill Jews wherever they find them, and yes every civilized country on earth has the right to kill such murderers wherever it finds them. And the only relation between them, is that violating right by the first, makes the second praiseworthy. Period, the end.

[pawdoggie]

Mr. Schulman needs to pick up a newspaper, or visit an Islamist web site. They're calling Israelis and Jews lots of things these days, but his honorific "enemy" aint one them.

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", rollo tomasi wrote: "Sorry, I don't believe the concept that humans are naturally good."

I said no such thing. I said they were our own species and therefore had the power to choose between doing good or doing evil. They're choosing to do evil.

"Also their mindset is not complex."

Yeah, right. It's a simplistic mindset that comes up with a reason to reverse the hardwired survival instinct and strap on an explosives vest.

I think that sort of counter-intuitive behavior is the result of an ideological mindset, and ideology is what Korzybski would have called a high abstraction.

"Of course it might be to those whose agenda is to appease these humans which are carrying some very bad demons."

Ah. So you excuse their behavior because they are not free to choose good over evil, but are merely victims of demons?

Me, I don't give them that insanity defense.

JNS

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", Mr. Mojo wrote:
"The war is certainly not traditional, but it's very real."

As I have written repeatedly.

JNS

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", JasonC wrote:
"Author suffers from the delusion that there is any status or honor in being anybody else's enemy."

There is honor in being a combatant rather than a passive observer or worse, a victim.

There is greater honor in fighting on the right side.

"And peddles the same ridiculous moral equivalence nonsense the director is selling."

The director is not selling moral equivalence, which is the point of my defense. And if you reached that conclusion after reading my article, I apologize for writing above your reading grade level.

"Nobody is buying, because it is nonsense. No, the Palis don't have a right to kill Jews wherever they find them, and yes every civilized country on earth has the right to kill such murderers wherever it finds them. And the only relation between them, is that violating right by the first, makes the second praiseworthy. Period, the end."

See my comment above at #38 in this thread, where I said the same thing on the moral question. But that is not "period, the end."

Israel -- outnumbered 50 to 1 by its enemies -- can't secure itself without the military power of the United States, and therefore Israel's counter-terrorism actions, even when morally defensible, can still be possibly counter-productive or futile.

The Israelis understand this, which is why they've announced today that they will not use military force against Iran, and the United States may have to, in order to save them.

JNS

[ArmyTeach]

I don't know about the one off course plane that dropped a single bomb in London. My mother's parents were British, and from what I was told, the buzz-bombing of London continued over a protracted period of time, long enough to require that children be evacuated. Their relatives died in the buzz-bombing of London. From any perspective, real war is a terrible thing. God forbid it reaches our shores.

[colorado tanker]

Seems to me Krauthammer got it just about right. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1557194/posts

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", pawdoggie wrote:

"Mr. Schulman needs to pick up a newspaper, or visit an Islamist web site. They're calling Israelis and Jews lots of things these days, but his honorific 'enemy' aint one them."

I'm well aware of that. When it comes out, I strongly suggest you see the film Obsession: Radical Islam's War Against the West. Web page is at http://www.honestreporting.com/obsession/.

That sort of language is when they're on TV. I assure you that nobody ducking for cover under heavy fire is calling the people firing at them "vermin."

JNS

[JasonC]

"There is honor in being a combatant"

No, there really isn't. Because it is better to suffer than to commit injustice. Some evil men think otherwise, but they are wrong.

And yes, the director and you are both selling moral equivalence, and your denials of it are completely hollow.

[rollo tomasi]

It's a simplistic mindset that comes up with a reason to reverse the hardwired survival instinct and strap on an explosives vest.

A ticket to 70+ virgins for killing infidels. What else do you need to know or are you that ignorant about the beliefs of radical Islam.

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

Someone should ask Spielberg if the War on the Barbary pirates was a real war.
I'm sure there were more than a few back then who thought so.

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", colorado tanker wrote:
"Seems to me Krauthammer got it just about right. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1557194/posts "

Krauthammer writes, "Inspired by Tony Kushner's belief (he co-wrote the screenplay) that the founding of Israel was a "historical, moral, political calamity" for the Jewish people."

Kushner is incorrect. The founding of Israel, outnumbered 50 to 1 by its enemies, is not yet a "historical, moral, political calamity" for the Jewish people."

But the only thing preventing it from becoming a "historical, moral, political calamity" for the Jewish people" is the United States ... and Israel being a sore point with Jihadis intent on getting their hands on weapons of mass destruction, a Jewish State in the middle east could end up being a "historical, moral, political calamity" for New York.

I say we give Mexico to the Israelis.

The Israelis will manage Mexico much better than the Mexicans, and solve our immigration problem. Jews and Catholics get along much better than Jews and Muslims. Everyone will be more secure, and it will calm down the Jihadis long enough for the United States to launch solar power satellites and wean ourselves from dependence on foreign oil.

In the long run the Jewish State of Mexico would be much easier for the American people to defend than that indefensible Phoenix which Utopians have built on the Red Sea.

JNS

[rollo tomasi]

Oh, I forgot, also the destruction of Israel and every country comprised of infidels. Not a hard reason to grasp.

Of course those who don't understand look for understanding with people so ingrained in their faith that they are willing to blow themselves up.

Of course then there are the mullahs themselves...

[colorado tanker]

Okey, dokey. We know where you stand.

Guess that 'splains why you're a fan of the movie.

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", JasonC quoted me:
"There is honor in being a combatant"

JasonC replied, "No, there really isn't. Because it is better to suffer than to commit injustice. Some evil men think otherwise, but they are wrong."

Then you're arguing that Jews were right to allow themselves to be sent to death camps rather than make IED's and blow up Nazis?

JasonC further wrote, "And yes, the director and you are both selling moral equivalence, and your denials of it are completely hollow."

You're the one arguing moral equivalence, not me. I'm not the one arguing that fighting back against terrorists is committing injustice and that suffering is preferable.

JNS

[higgmeister]

"Oh, I wouldn't hesitate [to 'nuke' the terrorists] if I had the choice. I'd wipe 'em out. You're gonna kill innocent people at the same time, but we've never fought a damn war anywhere in the world where they didn't kill innocent people. If the newspapers would just cut out the shit: 'You've killed so many civilians.' That's their tough luck for being there."

I'd go the General one step further. I don't want their
civilians to raise another generation of terrorists. Their
culture brought us to this point. It isn't worth any tears
for its destruction. Green glass parking lots can be our
friend. I predict the minute they understand this they
will change.

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", rollo tomasi quoted me:
"[Yeah, right.] It's a simplistic mindset that comes up with a reason to reverse the hardwired survival instinct and strap on an explosives vest."

The "Yeah, right" is necessary to include so my sarcasm is evident. I meant that it's not a simplistic mindset.

"A ticket to 70+ virgins for killing infidels. What else do you need to know or are you that ignorant about the beliefs of radical Islam."

Belief in a reward after death for committing homicide/suicide is not simplistic. It's a complex pathology. If it were simple, it would be easy to talk them out of it.

JNS

[J. Neil Schulman]

In the News/Activism forum, on a thread titled Steven Spielberg's Munich Asks: "Is The 'War on Terrorism' a Real War?", colorado tanker wrote:
"Okey, dokey. We know where you stand. Guess that 'splains why you're a fan of the movie."

Excuse me for liking the United States of America better than Israel.

JNS

[JasonC]

Killing Nazis isn't committing injustice. And your confusing one with the other proves you are indeed trapped in the moral equivalence nonsense, that sees violence itself as unjust.

There is no status in being able to commit injustice and committing it. It is better to be powerless than to be in that condition. Power does not confer respectability. Only moral worth does. Ergo, there is no honor or status in merely being someone's enemy.