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Bush plans $250M for nuclear waste project (turning waste into some plutonium - banned for decades)
Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | January 26, 2006 | H. JOSEF HEBERT

Posted on 01/26/2006 10:59:55 PM PST by neverdem

click here to read article


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To: Smokin' Joe

Mr. Joe'
I sadly left Slob due to family issues that required me to leave LA move back to IN.
Loved the Offshore rigs. Sigh.


21 posted on 01/27/2006 7:26:36 AM PST by mikeybaby (long time lurker)
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To: neverdem

'Bout d@mn time. Just I begin losing hope for Pres. Bush he pulls another good one out of the hat!


22 posted on 01/27/2006 7:26:38 AM PST by Little Ray (I'm a reactionary, hirsute, gun-owning, knuckle dragging, Christian Neanderthal and proud of it!)
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To: Smokin' Joe

"Which is OK in today's climate."

Yes ...

"A couple of thousand years from now, if the roof leaks, so to speak, and the area gets significant rainfall, those hot containers might corrode away. I wouldn't want to be drinking from a well near that..."

and
"Some of those isotopes are nasty stuff, though."

This is true, but people make 2+2 = 5 when they put together "radiation that lasts for thousands of years" with
"some of this is highly radioactive".

Reality check: The longer the half-life, the lower the level of radiation. Then you have to consider the decay path; is it something nasty (high energy particle that can penetrate human body) or low energy. The radiation level in these casks is not constant; it goes down drastically year by year for a few hundred years to a level of very low radioactivity, radiation level that is many orders of magnitude smaller than the level of when it left a nuclear power plant.

All of the "hot" radoactive decay elements in nuclear waste have half-lives measured in days, years, or tens of years. After about 100 years, the radiation level is much much lower. The main source of radiation then is the transuranics (uranium, plutonium). Stuff like strontium and other elements would have decayed away.

Correspondingly, the very long half-life material has low level of radiation. (For example the human body has a half-life measured in billions of years - does that mean we are 'unsafe' for a billion years?)

So, if you wait 10,000 years for geology to change and Yucca to actually get rainfall, etc. you'll find in the interim that the level of radiation danger is much reduced. They'll still have plutonium etc. and radiation, but the containers will be not that "hot" at all.

IMHO, the Yucca solution is vastly overengineered and well within what is safe, and the prospective claimed risks to it are not reasonably based on the facts.


23 posted on 01/27/2006 7:37:57 AM PST by WOSG
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To: Smokin' Joe

"Waste disposal remains one of the key problems for nuclear power's engineers to overcome. When I was in grad school, no one in the world had a viable long-term solution. Yucca may be, then again, it may not."

Er, what Bush is announcing *is* in fact a reasonable solution to this issue.


24 posted on 01/27/2006 7:40:31 AM PST by WOSG
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To: neverdem
Countries around the world will demand use of nuclear energy in the coming decades, Bodman said, and "the challenge that confronts us" is providing nuclear fuel and addressing reactor waste globally without increasing proliferation risks. He said the U.S. might be one of the countries that could offer "cradle to grave fuel cycle services, leasing fuel for power reactors and then taking it back for reprocessing and disposition."

--- this is a very WISE point. The issue with Iran today is that publicly they declare they want nuclear energy. Privately we know they want weapons. We need to give the world access to energy without the technology of weapons, and the way to do that is for nuclear powers like the U.S. be the 'nuclear fuel cycle' handler. France is already doing this for e.g. Japan. This is the path to proliferation-proof nuclear energy worldwide. It also helps us address any global environmental and terrorist risk issues. Far better for the U.S. to be tracking this than for other countries to be 'owning' it on their own.

25 posted on 01/27/2006 7:45:14 AM PST by WOSG
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To: WOSG
Correct on all points save one, and that an omission. Plutonium is slower to decay, and thus less active per microgram, but if enough is assembled, it is remains dangerous longer.

In addition to that, it is a highly reactive and toxic heavy metal, even without radioactivity as part of the equation.

The problem is not the small amounts, but a concentration far beyond what would normally occur in nature. It may not take 10,000 years, either, the ice sheets were pretty much gone here in just a couple of thousand.

I agree with the concept that processing spent fuel to get more fuel does address the waste problem--it is the equivalent of recycling.

As I said, I am not against nuclear power. Processing 'spent' fuel currently in questionable storage areas is a good idea--more fuel, less waste to inter. In the short term this is a solution, but it is a remedy, and not a cure.

These are problems which need to be addressed, especially if we are going to expand our capability.

26 posted on 01/27/2006 7:51:12 AM PST by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly.)
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To: Smokin' Joe

"Plutonium is slower to decay, and thus less active per microgram, but if enough is assembled, it is remains dangerous longer."

But we were talking about them being embedded with other material in well-sealed canisters in Yucca. It's not highly concentrated and in a stable environment. I dont see a scenario of the canisters being compromise as credible. These are huge thick-walled sealed things that are immune to huge pressure and temperature impacts, let alone what can happen inside a cold, dry mountain.


27 posted on 01/27/2006 7:58:33 AM PST by WOSG
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To: neverdem

Go "Nucular" W!

;o)


28 posted on 01/27/2006 8:53:07 AM PST by Liberty Valance (Super Man wears Jack Bauer pajamas)
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To: RangerM; Smokin' Joe; Mind-numbed Robot

It was rhetorical. They'd kill Bambi before they give Dubya credit for something.


29 posted on 01/27/2006 8:54:47 AM PST by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
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To: El Gato; JudyB1938; Ernest_at_the_Beach; Robert A. Cook, PE; lepton; LadyDoc; jb6; tiamat; PGalt; ..
A Shocker: Partisan Thought Is Unconscious

NMR Walks on the Wild Side

Study shows Israeli elderberry extract effective against avian flu

FReepmail me if you want on or off my health and science ping list.

30 posted on 01/27/2006 9:19:11 AM PST by neverdem (May you be in heaven a half hour before the devil knows that you're dead.)
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To: Killborn
It was rhetorical.

Do you mean you let us dispense all that wisdom for nothing? :-)

31 posted on 01/27/2006 10:15:13 AM PST by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all that needs to be done needs to be done by the government.)
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To: burzum

With so many nations fight for nuclear power, maybe we should just go with it and try to corner the market.


32 posted on 01/27/2006 6:06:11 PM PST by JeffersonRepublic.com (There is no truth in the news, and no news in the truth.)
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To: mikeybaby

"And talking about the great religon that is Islam, I'm still waiting for my Achmed computer, or a "Mohamed Inside" chip. "

Funny!

Does that computer come equipped with a sharp knife to slice off someone's head if they type the wrong thing.

Or technology to make sure women wear a veil to operate it?


33 posted on 01/27/2006 6:40:20 PM PST by HereInTheHeartland (Never bring a knife to a gun fight, or a Democrat to do serious work...)
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To: Mind-numbed Robot

Wisdom spent is never for naught. Even a discussion where all parties agree can be envigorating and enlightening. ;)


34 posted on 01/28/2006 11:19:56 PM PST by Killborn (Pres. Bush isn't Pres. Reagan. Then again, Pres. Regan isn't Pres. Washington. God bless them all.)
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