Scientists find frozen methane gas deposit

Seattle Post-Intelligencer ^ | January 28, 2006 | ALICIA CHANG

[neverdem]

AP SCIENCE WRITER

LOS ANGELES -- Scientists have discovered an undersea deposit of frozen methane just off the Southern California coast, but whether it can be harnessed as a potential energy source is unknown.

In recent years, there has been a growing interest in tapping methane hydrates, ice-like crystals that form at low temperatures and high pressure in seabeds and in Arctic permafrost.

Scientists estimate that the methane trapped in previously known frozen reservoirs around the globe could power the world for centuries. But finding the technology to mine such deposits has proved elusive.

The newly discovered deposit, believed to be substantial in size, was found about 15 miles off the coast at a depth of about 2,600 feet, at the summit of an undersea mud volcano. Scientists were conducting an unrelated study when they came across the volcano, which sits on top of an active fault zone in the Santa Monica Basin.

The discovery is detailed in the February issue of the journal Geology.

The ecosystem surrounding the methane hydrate site was unlike any of the other vast hydrate deposits around the world. Scientists found seashells and clams with unique chemical characteristics, suggesting the area experiences an extreme flux of methane gas mixing with water, said Jim Hein, a marine geologist at the U.S. Geological Survey in Menlo Park.

In additional to technical problems standing in the way of mining methane hydrates, Hein said mining this deposit probably would be difficult because of its proximity to shipping lanes from Los Angeles and Long Beach.

Some scientists also worry about the environmental effects of such large-scale gas deposits. Hydrates are estimated to contain about three times as much methane as is currently in the atmosphere, and some scientists say releasing it could lead to global warming and change the world's climate.

On the Net:

U.S. Geological Survey: http://www.usgs.gov

[Jeff Chandler]

some scientists say releasing it could lead to global warming and change the world's climate.

Hedging their bets. Warmer, colder, whatever. Industry is bad, that's all.

[JohnCliftn]

Rotten Geologists are always finding more hydrocarbon fuels despite the greenies' proclaimed scarcity. Pity the poor greenies. They're never right. Hysterical pseudo-science never is right. When it appears they might be right and they get a few years run of their dribble, wham!, they're proved wrong.

Oh, yeah, global warming or is it cooling. All a desert? All a glacier?

Some people just like to scream hysterically, but isn't that what rock concerts are for?

[kenth]

Hydrates are estimated to contain about three times as much methane as is currently in the atmosphere, and some scientists say releasing it could lead to global warming and change the world's climate.

We're not just going to pump it up and let it go...

[Dallas59]

"Some scientists say releasing it could lead to global warming and change the world's climate."

So could meteors and asteroids crashing into the Earth, nukes in the hands of dictators, and my cousin Mac after eating a large cheese pizza.

[okie01]

The newly discovered deposit, believed to be substantial in size, was found about 15 miles off the coast at a depth of about 2,600 feet, at the summit of an undersea mud volcano.

What, pray tell, is the freezing point of methane hydrate.

It's not warm 2600 ft down, to be sure, but it's not "freezing". And, if it is associated with a mud volcano, what must the temperature be? And how is it maintained?

[umgud]

Scientists have discovered an undersea deposit of frozen methane just off the Southern California coast,

Well, there's your answer. They could have found a free unending supply of hydrogen, but because it's off the California coast, they could never retrieve it.

[Fred Nerks]

Very interesting post. Mud volcano, methane, fault zone...what, way beneath might they find next?

[Smokin' Joe]

Hydrates are estimated to contain about three times as much methane as is currently in the atmosphere, and some scientists say releasing it could lead to global warming and change the world's climate.

Just a bit of geological speculation, here, but I think the Methane hydrate deposits are part of the Earth's temperature regulation system. During an ice age, sea levels get considerably lower--up to 300 meters lower. At some point, the reduction of hydrostatic pressure on the methane hydrates will cause them to boil off, causing global warming and reversing the climatic trend toward lower temperatures.

Producing these deposits for natural gas just might make the next ice age considerably longer.

Just S.W.A.G.*, I have no research data to back it, but something to consider.

*Scientific Wild-A$$ed Guessing

[Smokin' Joe]

They could have found a free unending supply of hydrogen

It is there, a little salty, and oxidized, but there...

[neverdem]

What, pray tell, is the freezing point of methane hydrate.

If you believe this link, then it seems to be about 18 degrees C.

[beaver fever]

Go this link. It's the website for the Integrated Ocean Drilling Program. It will tell you all you need to know about gas hydrates and the state of research on them.

The Japanese research vessel Chikyu is also doing hydrate research. Hydrate resources off the coast of Japan are believed to be in the Billions of tons.

http://www.iodp.org/

[okie01]

Interesting. And the continental shelf deposits are apparently quite stable at around 2 degrees C.

[familyop]

Hmmm. Angle drill it (for safety), maybe? ...and inject water into the hole to melt it, break it up and float it out?

[Lokibob]

Isn't underwater methane being released suspected in the loss of some of the boats in the Bermuda Triangle?

I seem to remember that it lowers the density of the water, and boats simply don't float on it.

I the morning I will google this and see what I can find.

[FOG724]

The ecosystem surrounding the methane hydrate site was unlike any of the other vast hydrate deposits around the world.

Did I hear someone say endangered species?

[Fitzcarraldo]

[Fitzcarraldo]

[FreedomCalls]

If you believe this link, then it seems to be about 18 degrees C.

Doesn't the freezing point vary by pressure?

[FreedomCalls]

Opps, I should have read to the bottom before replying. Thanks for the chart. I knew pressure changed the temperature on way or another (as it does for the boiling point as well).

[coconutt2000]

"Honey, I'm going fishing today for Methane. I'll be home to dinner with enough to power our house for the next decade."

[nightdriver]

"What, pray tell, is the freezing point of methane hydrate."

It depends on the pressure.

It's interesting stuff. It looks like ice, feels line styrofoam when you hold it in your hands, (barely cold at all), and when the pressure is off of it, it outgasses the methane and the ice just sublimates, leaving no water at all.

It is a nuisance in the oilfields, because it can build up in pipe elbows and valves and shut down the flow.

[Max in Utah]

What, pray tell, is the freezing point of methane hydrate.

At the pressure of 2600ft ocean depth, it's probably surprisingly high.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks, FN.

Google

[Wiz]

Methane Hydrate ping!

[AD from SpringBay]

We better leave it alone. Trying to do something with it could bruise a shrimp or ruffle a gull.

[Andonius_99]

hmmmm...frozen farts...

[jpl]

Gee, I thought we had already discovered all of the sources of energy on the planet! Surely this must be the last new one we'll ever find.

I look forward to the day when the consensus scientific community finally comes out and admits that Thomas Gold and the Russian scientists are correct about how hydrocarbons are really formed.

[hgro]

Scientists find frozen methane gas deposit

And its not in Washington, D.C. !!

[Max in Utah]

I was just thinking of how sea floor methane hydrate deposits might be subducted into the earth and converted into petroleum by heat and pressure. Can anyone comment on the chemistry involved?

[okie01]

Thank you!

[okie01]

Thanks for the answers to my question.

One of the great things about Free Republic: you've got questions, about damn near anything, somebody's got answers.

[freepatriot32]

ping

[Freebird Forever]

Interesting.

Thanks for the ping.

[E.G.C.]

BTTT

[Blood of Tyrants]

If your area is hotter, colder, dryer, wetter, or about normal, it's all due to global warming.

[Blood of Tyrants]

If your area is hotter, colder, dryer, wetter, or about normal, it's all due to global warming.

[Fiddlstix]

Some people just like to scream hysterically, but isn't that what rock concerts are for?

Well Said.

[cartoonistx]

Industry is bad, that's all.

Actually, anything that helps America and it's economy beat out the socialist's "worker's paradise" model of global enslavement is bad!

[prairiebreeze]

Well, this is going to raise a stink.

[Philistone]

Abiotic Petroleum Nut Alert!

SHUT HIM DOWN! SCREAM! MAKE NOISE! DON'T LET HIM GET AWAY WITH CHALLENGING OUR WORLD VIEW!

Oops. Sorry. Wrong forum...

[leftcoaster]

"The newly discovered deposit, believed to be substantial in size, was found about 15 miles off the coast at a depth of about 2,600 feet,...

My first thought was that Fat Ted took his Oldsmobile for drive again.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

What, pray tell, is the freezing point of methane hydrate.

Every 33 feet you gain 1 atmosphere of pressure. At 2600 feet you're looking at 78.7878788 atmospheres of pressure. This makes the boiling point considerably higher than at the surface. Also once you get below about 500 feet, it starts getting cold fast.

I'm sure there are graphs online that depict these relationships.

At 1 atmosphere, at sea level, the air pressure is 14.7 PSI, at 2600 feet BSL you're looking at 1,158.18182 PSI.

1 gallon of this hydrate if brought to the surface would be almost 79 gallons, so there is a lot of potential there.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

USGS - Methane Hydrate

[norraad]

First, we should try a small scale robotic mining experiment using steam to create a natural gas supply for our pipeline system.

[SunkenCiv]

from a year ago:

How the Gores, Father and Son, Helped Their Patron Occidental Petroleum
Source: Center for Public Integrity
Published: 11 Jan 2000 Author: Charles Lewis and the Center for Public Integrity
Posted on 03/09/2000 12:26:40 PST by Hamiltonian
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38c809001b91.htm