In Praise of FR's freedom - from a progressive

by ClassConscious aka SoLongCrooks ^

[ClassConscious]

Link

Earlier thread by this poster under another name before he was banned, linked above also:

Bye-bye Delay! So long crooks! Goodbye world, I'm gone by ZOT!

Posted on 01/08/2006 8:43:32 PM CST by SoLongCrooks

Yaa, you repukes are not doing so well, huh? Imagine, you repukes control the presidency, both houses of Congress, and appointed 7 of the 9 Supreme Court justices. Yet the Supreme Court thre out sodomy laws in all 50 states and recognized the right of government to seize land for any reason. And you couldn't pass your Social Security changes could you? Sorry, that was your last shot. Come November, we're going to start seeing more Democratic faces in the House. It's the end for you guys. You guys are celebrating when Bush's numbers go *up* to 45%. Then Faux News trumpets this like it's some kind of victory.

I should add I am not a Democrat, I am a communist. And I know one day the workers will control the means of production, and all the capitalist idle class parasites you guys love will be eliminated as a class. But I also recognize, like the CPUSA, sometimes you must enter a front with the liberals for tactical reasons. We had fun sticking it to the liberals with Nader and the Greens in 2000, 2002 and 2004, but this year we're switching gears. Evo Morales in Bolivia, Hugo Chavez in Venezuela, plus all are other Latin American comrades, and the Left Party in Germany, the Socialist Party in Spain pulling the troops out of Iraq. It's a come back for the workers of the world, BIG TIME. Sorry to all you capitalists and sycophants, or Jesus-believing loonies.

Oh yaa - Bye bye Tom Delay. We control nothing in the government, yet we still control so much! Gramsci was right to make a long march through the institutions. Too bad your shot at power amounted to so little! At least you got your estate tax cut...for a few years anyhow.

*******Beginning of new thread by the same Troll**************

The first thing I will say up front - I am a progressive, not a conservative. This message is about the freedom of Free Republic, versus the party line of Democratic Underground.

If you look at Democratic Underground's rules ( http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules_detailed.html ), one is "Democratic Underground may not be used for political, partisan, or advocacy activity by supporters of any political party or candidate other than the Democratic Party or Democratic candidates." Note, this doesn't say Republicans, this doesn't say "progressive candidates", it says Democratic candidates, period. Now let's compare this to Free Republic's posting guidelines ( http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm ) - "Broadly stated, the goals of this site are to further conservatism, expose political corruption, and recover a truly constitutional form of government." No mention of the Republican Party. No jihad against you if you make up your mind to vote for Pertouka. No "party line" from the Republican leadership. Significantly, even though DU and FR are compared often, that is a (unofficial) Democratic Party site, you are a conservative site.

I just made two posts saying positive things about the Green party, talking about how people like Clinton and Kerry do not represent working class people and so forth. This was after 200+ posts there by me on other topics. Both of my threads were locked and I was directed to the above mentioned rules, which say those who don't follow the Democratic Party line are not welcome. I then posted a thread saying Free Republic had more freedom of expression than Democratic Underground, and that that was a shame. That was erased.

While my discussion of this was banned on DU, I don't think it will be banned here. I can't believe I am more free to discuss my support of the Greens, or talk about freedom of political discussion on Free Republic than Democratic Underground. And as I said before, the fact that you are a conservative site, not a official or unofficial Republican Party site is probably due to this. The party that runs the White House, Congress and 7 of 9 Supreme Court seats allows people to support Pertouka over Bush on its main political board. The main discussion board for people of the progressive movement declares all must follow the Democratic Party line, and any other discussion is locked and erased. I've even seen people banned before.

This is not going to make me a conservative or Republican. I am a working class person and hate capitalists. Note, I hate capitalists, not conservatives. I know plenty of conservatives, but am not a regular at the mansions of wealthy heirs. Anyhow, my point is this will not make me like capitalism any more, but I am very fed up with the Democrats and places like DU. They restrict freedom, make people follow a party line - and lose. You allow discussion, allow people to choose between Pertouka, Bush and whatnot - and win. Very sad.

I should close this by saying I agree with nothing the Republicans or conservatives are for - except one thing. I am a complete supporter of the Second Amendment. I have been on the left for a long time and the scariest people around are the gun control people. Not the soccer moms who the leaders of gun control people try to appeal to, but the leaders themselves, the people who want more and more gun control. I have heard people like this talk about how they are scared that people up in Appalachia and in the South have so many guns. I am always puzzled like this. For myself, I feel pretty SAFE knowing people in Appalachia, the South and so forth have guns. Why would someone be scared that the working people in rural areas have rifles, shotguns and so forth? The people who say this usually aren't working class people, they are usually liberal yuppie types. So all you second amendment supporters - you're more right than you know, if you heard how these people talk, you'd be more freaked out by all this gun control stuff than you probably already are. The gun control people are the creepiest, scariest people on the left and in the Democratic party. Meaning not the soccer moms and so forth they try to appeal to, but the people masterminding the fight on that. In fact, if you look at DU polls - many many DUers are more pro-2nd amendment than pro-gun control. So who are these gun control people? So keep fighting on this, at least one party supports the 2nd Amendment. Other than this, I don't agree with conservatives or Republicans on anything, especially in terms of the working class. Hopefully this post will shame some DU admin into allowing more freedom of expression for progressives there. You guys can discuss problems in the conservative movement while we can't - we're only allowed to praise the Democratic party, otherwise, hit the road. I hope I shame some DU admin into making changes with this, but I doubt I will.

[nopardons]

*tosses a container of long wooden matches, to the Commander in chief of the tar pots*

This one wont last; it's always good to be prepared. :-)

[ARealMothersSonForever]

It has been several months since we have seen a pseudo-intellectual DUmpster diver. If you have had an epiphany, welcome to the conservative capitalistic anti redistribution forum. Progressive? Come now, prithee enlighten all of us Appalachian's and Rednecks to the glories of this progressive movement. Afore we go an' fetch a shootin iron.

[Navy Patriot]

I don't agree with conservatives or Republicans on anything, especially in terms of the working class.

Have you thought this through? How about national defense, private property rights, 1st Amendment (obviously you agree on 2A, so we'll skip that), 5th, 14th, you see where I'm going? What about progressive economics? Gorbachev had some problems with those.

What say?

[immigration lady]

from a captialist who believes (1) in working my butt off for every blessed dime I have (though it may not be much), (2) that no one determines my status/wealth but me , (3) that there are no limits to what one can accomplish nor limits to the amount of wealth one can obtain; and (4) that the federal government doesn't owe anyone anything - remember, no one is entitled to a handout because (s)he was born here...

welcome aboard - sincerely. I think.

[A message]

Read and you will learn here.

Capitalism is vastly superior to freedom restricting socialism, fascism and communism.

Conservatives are all about freedom.

Myself I am poor, I am a Capitalist, I don't need a handout. I do not want someone else's money. I work and it up to ME to make more money if I choose. That is freedom.

It is not freedom when my money is stolen from me to handout to someone who would not raise their own hands to help themselves who would not spend a moment at the library to better themselves and learn.

I like a clean environment. But I am a human, master of this earth. The resources of this planet are at and for my use. I choose not to revisit the times of my fore bearers who struggled through diseases, unclean water, no electricity, limited mobility, and inferior methods of industry, farming and extraction. ANWR can be resourced using modern methods with nearly no impact on the environment. And the Caribou will thrive just as they have since the opening of the north shore to extraction. The frozen mud of ANWR will not be visited or truly seen by 6 billion humans on this planet. Yet the few who are sanctimonious stop extraction.

I am a conservative because.

I believe in a small government whose true purpose is defense of the nation.

I believe those who could never breed, demanding same sex marriage, is destructive to the nation and her survival.

I believe those who wantonly murder their unborn babies is destructive to the nation and her survival.

I am a conservative because I believe you have the right to say as you do. And I have the right to challenge you in the arena of ideas.

I am a conservative because I do not lie to myself and make up words to cloud and hide my political beliefs. I am not a progressive , who is a liberal, who is a socialist or communist or fascist. I will tell you what I really am and not hide behind a moniker. Tell us what your political beliefs really are.

And I am a conservative because my future lies with our Holy Lord and our savior Jesus of Nazareth. My future lies with eternity, with the infinite, with the everlasting. I will not throw my lot in with the temporary, which is this earth, this solar system, this universe, this breath of air, this feeling flesh, all destined to disappear.

Choose your future, choose it carefully and wisely and ask your self one question. " What do I really want." All our answers should be about the same. I want to never cease to exist. That is what I truly want.

Read on but please do not waste this bandwidth with Green, Socialist and anti Capitalist philosophy. It is not welcomed.

[GOPJ]

We're all safer when the bad guys don't know who's got a gun and who doesn't. It's the reason home invasions are done when folks aren't home in the US and when they are home in England.

There was talk about this site hooking up with Republicans, but most of us thought it was a bad idea. Too restrictive to buy into one ideology. As you know...

[Campion]

I am a complete supporter of the Second Amendment. I have been on the left for a long time and the scariest people around are the gun control people.

Well, you have at least one good instinct. Maybe we can build on that.

For myself, I feel pretty SAFE knowing people in Appalachia, the South and so forth have guns. Why would someone be scared that the working people in rural areas have rifles, shotguns and so forth?

Because they're left wing elitists. Deep down, they don't believe in ordinary people making decisions about their own lives, including how to defend themselves against criminals. They think that only the nanny state can do that.

And some of them, I'm convinced, want to advance toward a dictatorial regime which cannot exist for long without a disarmed, cowed citizenry.

You wanna talk scary? George Soros is scary with a capital "S", and he's very much in bed with the worldwide anti-RKBA agenda.

But you know, if you can trust those working class people with their own guns, why can't you trust them with their own money? Even if some of them use it wisely, get rich, and become one of those capitalists you hate?

Freedom is a seamless garment.

[Hildy]

Out of curiousity, why do you hate capitalists?

[B Knotts]

And the original "progressives," T.R., Earl Warren, La Follette, and friends, weren't any better, IMO.

Additionally, the term presumes a particular set of goals to which we are supposed to be "progressing."

[Big Giant Head]

Welcome. You made the first step to your healing. Wakingup to what is considered "diversity" and realizing there is none at DU is big.

I must confess that I, too, used to be quite liberal. I was a useless lefty as a school age kid. It's been a long and rewarding journey to the healthy side of the isle.

You're on your way.

[America's Resolve]

If you're a Green, you must be concerned about the environment.

One of the advantages of Capitalism is the ability to discern problem areas, devise solutions and marshall the resources to implement fixes, ala the environment.

Care to go live in China or Russia where outright communism have left the environment a total shambles with air that's literally black on bad days?

Just a thought.

PS Just a last thought. How can you STAND to spend your time with the irrational people who post at DU? *shiver*

[TheForceOfOne]

Excellent points. :)

[Anitius Severinus Boethius]

Let people work as hard as they want, and then let them keep their earnings: why is that such a distasteful idea to anti-capitalists?

[mdittmar]

Just so we know where are new friend is coming from,
Green Party of the United States Platform 2004

[pcottraux]

I think this one is a far-left socialist who feels disenfranchised by the Democratic Party.

[CWOJackson]

Whether you're opposed to capitalism or not isn't much of an issue. The important thing is, how do you feel about the horrid officiating at the Super Bowl?

[Revolting cat!]

Welcome. And ignore the insults. (Maybe your purpose is to provoke them and then go back to DU and say, 'yeah, you were right about those right wing haters', I dunno.). In any event, I suspect that you are not as much a progressive, a label invented by the Stalinists to make themselves acceptable, after all who'd be against 'progress', but a working stiff who sees all too clearly the shortcomings of the capitalist systems and turns Left for the answers. For all we know, that's where they may be, though not in the screaming, extreme Left we've got here today. The dog eat dog capitalism that many here think they'd prefer to the current state of things is not necessarily where it's at. I am against the welfare state for the idle as everyone here, but a state that takes care of its productive citizens' needs that can be only provided by the state (let's be a little vague this evening) might be a reasonable idea.

[JasonC]

I'd be willing to bet CC hates with the unreasoned bigotry of a stone cold mass murderer like Joe Stalin.

[Trteamer]

I am a capitalist and I am insulted by your comments. You are free to say you hate capitalists and I am free to say you are misguided and uneducated.

I am an entrepeunuer and I risk my wealth daily to run a business, employ people and make life better for my community. I give money to charities, try to lead a good christian life, and try to do good things. What is wrong with that?

As for the Green Party. They are a bunch of wacked out communitst supporting idiots. I FReeped the Green Party here when they invited Code Pink and Medea Benjamin to speak. It sounded just like Democratic Underground. Talk about hate speach, this group spewed it for hours. I got news for all you "progressives", if the communists or radical islamics ever gain control, you will be the first ones slaughtered.

I actually hope you don't get zotted, maybe someone here can get you straightened out. Try cutting your hair, moving away from the college campus, getting a career and dedicating yourself to being the best. Give capitalism a try, you may like it.

[Eva]

This is not going to make me a conservative or Republican. I am a working class person and hate capitalists.

That's where you are making your first two mistakes. The first is hating someone because of their economic philosophy. That's a big waste of time and blinds you to a full understanding. It puts you in the same class with the Islamo Fascists. The second is being a socialist. The Soviet Union proved that Socialism doesn't work. It's a proven failure and many Russians would laugh at you if you told them that you were a socialist.