Herbert E. Meyer: Take Out the Mullahs – Tonight

The American Thinker ^ | February 7th, 2006 | Herbert E. Meyer

[Tolik]

To think clearly about the looming crisis with Iran, close your eyes and imagine that you’re standing outside your children’s school. It’s 2:55pm, and you’re chatting amiably with other parents while waiting for the 3pm bell to ring.  Suddenly you see a man running toward the school, holding a hand grenade and shouting: “I hate kids.  I welcome death.”

Now, what do you propose to do?

One option is to engage your fellow parents in a dialogue about the serious and complex questions raised by the running man with the grenade.

For instance, you might try to calculate precisely how long it will take him to reach the school.  When he does reach the school, will he stop or go inside?  If he does go inside, will he run toward the basement, or toward the auditorium where the third and fourth grades have been brought to watch a video?  (It’s probably about “safe sex” – but what the schools teach our kids is another subject for another day.)  Is the hand grenade real, or might it be a fake?  If the grenade is real, does the man really know how to pull the pin?  And if he does, how big will be blast radius be and what’s the potential number of casualties?

And why is the man doing this?  Is he really a vicious killer?  Or is he a harmless but mentally disturbed individual who didn’t take his medication today and slipped out of the house without being noticed by his wife?  Or is this just a case of a well-meaning but very misguided protester who’s mad at the Bush administration for not signing the Kyoto accords, or who’s upset because dolphins are still getting caught in tuna nets?  Oh, and is it possible that in addition to the hand grenade he’s got a gun inside his coat pocket?

Should you try to talk with the man?  Or would it be better to notify the school’s principal, and perhaps suggest he call the police?

And remember—while you and your fellow parents debate all this, the distance between the man holding the grenade and your kids is narrowing.

The Option to Act

Your other option is to take the man down – now, this minute, however you can – and to sort out the mess later.

If you go for this option, it’s because you believe that anyone who runs toward a school with what appears to be a live grenade while shouting “I hate kids.  I welcome death” forfeits all rights to a cautious, comprehensive inquiry about his motives and real capabilities.  If it turns out that the grenade was a fake, or that the man is a harmless nut who really wouldn’t hurt a fly – too bad.  And if the man or his family sues you or the school district for injury or wrongful death – so what.

If you choose this option, it’s because you understand that when someone puts your children’s lives at risk, the instinct for survival trumps the analytic process.  Take too long to think, and you may lose the opportunity to act – and it’s impossible to accurately project when this line will be crossed until you’re already over it.

Okay, now let’s turn our attention to Iran.

The country is led by individuals who are proven, ruthless killers.  Several of them – most especially the country’s president, Mahmoud Amadinejad – are visibly insane.  They have launched huge programs to develop nuclear weapons and the missiles to deliver them, and Iran has both the money and talent to pull it off.  They have pledged to wipe at least one country off the map – Israel—and they don’t like us, either.

In response, our diplomats are fanning out to engage our allies in “frank and comprehensive” consultations about the looming, potential crisis.  They are even struggling mightily to bring non-allies including France, Russia and China into the dialogue.  Our State Department is “cautiously optimistic” that the issue will eventually be brought to the U.N. Security Council.

Meanwhile, members of Congress are demanding to know how much time we have before it will be too late to act.  Just last week the Director of National Intelligence, John Negroponte, testified before the Senate Intelligence Committee that in the judgment of our country’s intelligence experts, Iran “probably” hasn’t yet built a bomb or gotten its hands on enough fissile material to build one.  Over in Vienna the International Atomic Energy Agency estimates that it will be several years, at least, before Iran’s mullahs have a nuke.

What Can We Do?

Based on public comments by officials of the Bush Administration and of various European and Asian governments, there are four options on the table for dealing with Iran:  First, do nothing since Iran won’t actually have nukes for several years – and hope that the mullahs really aren’t serious about using them.  Second, engage the mullahs diplomatically in hopes of dissuading them from pursuing their present course.  Third, help trigger a revolution by providing as much covert support as possible to those within Iran – students and a growing range of worker organizations, for example – who are already demonstrating against their hated regime.  And fourth, launch a military strike on Iran’s nuclear facilities to destroy, or at least delay, that country’s weapons programs.

Alas, none of these options is any good.  The first is feckless, and the second is hopeless.  The third – helping support a revolution – is terrific, but even under the best possible circumstances would take a long time to bear fruit.  And the fourth option – taking out the nuclear facilities with military force – is extraordinarily difficult to execute, runs the real risk of igniting a political explosion throughout the Moslem world, and in any case it isn’t imminent.

Meanwhile, with each day that passes the distance between Iran’s mullahs and nuclear weapons is narrowing.  And remember:  Take too long to think, and you may lose the opportunity to act – and it’s impossible to accurately project when this line will be crossed until you’re already over it.

Indeed, we may already be over the line.  While it may be correct, as Director Negroponte has testified, that Iran “probably” hasn’t yet built a bomb or gotten its hands on enough fissile material to build one—it also may not be correct.  Given our intelligence community’s recent track record, it would be foolhardy to place much confidence in this judgment.  Generally, countries trying to build nuclear weapons succeed sooner rather than later – usually to the great surprise of Western intelligence services.  And isn’t it possible that Iran already has a bomb or two that it bought rather than built itself?  When the Soviet Union fell apart in 1991 there were the so-called “loose nukes” that the Soviet military wasn’t able to account for.  Make a list of those countries with the money and desire to get its hands on one of these weapons – and Iran tops the list.

It Isn’t Only Nukes

Most worrisome, while everyone in Washington is focusing on nuclear weapons, no one has uttered so much as a peep about the possibility that Iran may be developing chemical or biological weapons.  These weapons are far less costly than nuclear weapons, and the technology required to develop them is more widely available.  And since a cupful of anthrax or botulism is enough to kill 100,000 people, our ability to detect these weapons is – zilch.  So why wouldn’t the mullahs in Teheran order the development of chemical and biological weapons?  If they really do plan to wipe Israel – or us – off the map, these will do the job just as well as nukes.  And if reports are true that Saddam Hussein had such weapons before the war and shipped them out to Syria and Iran before we attacked in 2003 – then the mullahs already have stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons.

Simply put, Iran’s nuclear weapons program, combined with the murderous comments of that country’s president, is the political equivalent of a man running toward your children’s school holding a hand grenade and shouting “I hate kids.  I welcome death.”  The risk of taking time—to think, to talk, to analyze, to co-ordinate with other countries – is just too high.  We know where Amadinejad and the mullahs work, and we ought to know where they live.  (And if we don’t know, the Israelis do and would be more than happy to lend a hand.)  We have cruise missiles, Stealth fighters, and B-1 bombers that can fly from the US to Teheran, drop their lethal loads, then return to the US without ever landing en route.  We have skilled, courageous Special Forces teams that can get themselves on the ground in Teheran quietly and fast. 

The question is whether we still have within us the instinct for survival.  If we do, then our only course is to act – now, this minute, however we can – and to take out the mullahs.  Tonight.

Herbert E. Meyer served during the Reagan Administration as Special Assistant to the Director of Central Intelligence and Vice Chairman of the CIA’s National Intelligence Council.  His DVD on The Siege of Western Civilization  has become an international best-seller.

[Tolik]

About Herb Meyer: http://www.siegeofwesternciv.com/HerbMeyer.htm

Index of his articles posted on FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=HerbertEMeyer

About Herb Meyer: http://www.siegeofwesternciv.com/HerbMeyer.htm

Index of his articles posted on FR: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/keyword?k=HerbertEMeyer

[Tolik]

Very Interesting!

This ping list is not author-specific for articles I'd like to share. Some for the perfect moral clarity, some for provocative thoughts; or simply interesting articles I'd hate to miss myself. (I don't have to agree with the author all 100% to feel the need to share an article.) I will try not to abuse the ping list and not to annoy you too much, but on some days there is more of the good stuff that is worthy of attention. You can see the list of articles I pinged to lately  on  my page.
You are welcome in or out, just freepmail me (and note which PING list you are talking about). Besides this one, I keep 2 separate PING lists for my favorite authors Victor Davis Hanson and Orson Scott Card.  

[billybudd]

Bad argument. The Mullahs aren't running at us with nukes. It's a subtle game, so "shoot first ask questions later" is not an obvious policy, as it is in the school-bomber example.

[Tolik]

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[Puppage]

The Mullahs aren't running at us with nukes

Yeah, well just wait until they grab hold of one.

[USS Alaska]

Double tap

[butternut_squash_bisque]

"Now, what do you propose to do?"

Simple. I carry concealed a Kimber 1911 .45cal. What happens in the school case is a no=brainer. I'll have to get back to you on the other problem, after some thought.

[Leofl]

Ping for Later
Thank you

[lilylangtree]

Shoot first and ask questions later.

[Our man in washington]

I'm not ready to sacrifice a few thousand of my fellow Americans lives for all these "might be, could be, always a chance that" threats.

Why are we convinced deterrence won't work with Iran? I know the Muslims have that death cult thing going, but only the 18 year-olds are determined to blow themselves up. The 50 year-olds would rather sit in their comfy seats in parliment, and almost certainly take retaliation by Israel and the U.S. quite seriously.

We need to make it an official part of U.S. policy that if a country gives terrorists WMDs, that country will be held responsible for whatever the terrorists do.

The best bet is to build up a free and prosperous Iraq. Iranians will start looking across the border and saying "Hey! Why can't we have that?"

[Fiddlstix]

BTTT

[MajorityOfOne]

Agreed - dumb, alarmist analogy.

[princess leah]

Well, we know Syria is the source of a good deal of terrorism and WMDs - so, drop the big one on them and cutoff the source of ALOT of trouble...

[B.O. Plenty]

Iran “probably” hasn’t yet built a bomb or gotten its hands on enough fissile material to build one....

The obvious question being: ...are we willing to take the chance?...

[EQAndyBuzz]

"It's a subtle game, so "shoot first ask questions later" is not an obvious policy, as it is in the school-bomber example."

I don't think this game is subtle. I believe that once Radical Islam has a bomb, then the game changes. Who do we attack? It is like the RATS when they told us to chase Bin Laden and hunt down Al Queada? Where? Do we just go into a country and tear apart the place looking for Al Queada?

Fact is we know Iran is building a bomb so attacking Iran is the most logical solution. We set back Iraq almost 20 years. We shouldn't hesitate to do the same with Iran.

[G.Mason]

"It Isn’t Only Nukes"

Right, but for the wrong reason.

It isn't other WMD's (although that is a consideration)

It is about halting the global stench of Islam, and by doing away with the Mullahs and other pig farmers, it will slow them down enough to get a good bead on the next leaders heads that pop up, Moose Limbs or others.

[Restorer]

a cupful of anthrax or botulism is enough to kill 100,000 people

Accurate but irrelevant. It's really hard to get those 100,000 people to quietly line up for their injections.

Any other delivery is probably at least an order of magnitude less efficient.

[VRWCmember]

Herbert E. Meyer: Take Out the Mullahs – Tonight

Well, they would make for cheap dates since they generally shun alcohol, but I still wouldn't want to take them out.

[theFIRMbss]

>Bad argument. The Mullahs aren't running at us with nukes.

You're mixing things up.
The Mullahs die 'cause they're nuts
inciting terror.

Terrorists with nukes
die because they're nuts with nukes.
They're separate groups

but they're all targets
and the sooner they're scratched off
the sooner they're gone.

[trebb]

Bad argument. The Mullahs aren't running at us with nukes. It's a subtle game, so "shoot first ask questions later" is not an obvious policy, as it is in the school-bomber example.

The problem that makes it more like the school scenario is that Iran has already been threatening and we don't really know what their status is as far as getting nuke. A one week miscue could have us responding to a nuke detonation just as we responded to 9-11 - after the fact. Talking and sanctions are worthless against some folks - how many women have been killed by ex husbands and boyfriends that had restraining orders against them? If you need to issue the order, the order is already useless.

[hophead]

Damn Ann!!! Never seen you so sexy!

[kinsman redeemer]

Ping (T3)

[Hatteras]

WWJBD?

[B.O. Plenty]

I agree with Mr. Meyer. Not only will it stop the nuke program, it will further the destruction of islam.

[A message]

Spot On.

I dont like to use prayer power for anything but healing but Ahmadinejad and his mullah henchmen have forced me to choose option 2.

[bayourant]

Thank God for your sane voice. Its amazing how freepers have bought into what certain groups want to happen. I am not convinced that the majority of Moslems agree with all this cartoon business anyway. The Islamic world must be engaged there is no other solution really. All this lets roll to armageddon talk is great I guess for venting but pretty useless in coming to a solution. As to Iran, My view after looking at all this articles is that we dont have a clue where all the nuclear program is. Furthermore, with 150,000 American troops next door its makes military options even more problematic. I think the Bush Administration realizes that also. I am not saying an military option will not be needed but we better be preparing our Arab allies for it and lowering the tone on anti Islamic rhetoric like "lets bomb mecca". That doesnt mean we dont stand up for free speech or not support Denmark either. We can do both.

[Aquinasfan]

Now, what do you propose to do? One option is to engage your fellow parents in a dialogue about the serious and complex questions raised by the running man with the grenade.

I'd laugh if this wasn't so serious an issue. The problem with taking out the mullahs is our prohibition against the assasination of heads of government. Hopefully the law can be waived in this case. I'm sure the democrats will place the nation's survival above their political interests...

[billybudd]

I essentially agree with you, I'm just saying that this is a bad analogy. It's *not* obvious what we should do. We don't know we can destroy Iran's nuclear capability in one attack. So: do we try to destroy the research sites? Do we take out the leadership? Do we foment an Orange Revolution-style uprising? What's the timeframe of them getting a bomb vs. us being able to take any of those actions? So, no, it's not the same as simply stopping the school bomber. The analogy is completely misleading.

[Aquinasfan]

Why are we convinced deterrence won't work with Iran?

Because they're religious fanatics. They subscribe to an end-times belief which includes the idea that God will protect Iran from the effects of nuclear retaliation.

[Beckwith]

I keep my little .380 auto with 6 hollow-points in my pocket most of the time. Just in case.

	P3AT .380	P32 .32 Auto
Weight	7.2 oz.	6.6 oz.
Frame Width	0.798"	0.765"
Barrel Length	2.745"	2.675"
Slide Width	0.748"	0.748"
Overall Length	5.14"	5.08"
Height	3.576"	3.571"
Cartridge Capacity	6+1	7+1

[joe fonebone]

You are exactly correct with the 50 year old thing. So, with that in mind, one will placed MOAB when parliament is in session should get the ball rolling toward revolution..........

[Jack Black]

9/11 wasn't enough. We need to suffer more before we are sufficiently angry, as a nation and culture, to look at the "other" as the enemy. Lee Harris's article is really more to the point.

We aren't having a 'War of Civilizations' because only the Islamic side is at war.

We aren't having an "War of Civilizations" because only the Mexican/Latinos are at war.

Other than some outside-the-box intellectuals like Harris, and a bunch of grass-roots conservatives, and Michael Savage and a few talk-radio hosts, the people in general don't see a problem. They are not even aware that there is a culture to defend, or that other people have other ideas they are ready to impose those ideas on us. With guns, with slow motion invasions, with multi-culti demands, grinding immigration and suicide bombings.

Therefore I am resigned to suffering additional outrage. I hope and pray it's not where I live. I won't consider living in places that I consider "ground zero" for the inevitable, like NYC.

I think a lot about what comes next. So, we sit here watching the Iranians, eventually their overwhelming desire to nuke an American city happens. BOOOM! We lose New York (or 1/2 of Manhattan, or whatever).

What happens the day after? That's the really interesting question. Even then the left will be saying "Bush's Iraq war caused this" "We supported dictators in the past" "not everyone in Iran is to blame" etc.

What does President Hillary say? What does she do? What do we do? Agree to emergency taxes to rebuild the city?

[bayourant]

Agreed. We have to be real care here. Dont the Iraninas have missles that cant strike LOndon? Or better yet take out Rome and the Vatican. My concern is not getting all of it and in a couple of weeks these crazies do something like that. My faith in our inelligence resources has been shaken the last few years.

[adorno]

The problem with taking out the mullahs is our prohibition against the assasination of heads of government. Hopefully the law can be waived in this case.

We don't need to worry about the prohibition on assassination of leaders, and we don't need to have any laws waived.

The terrorists declared war on the U.S. many years ago and Iran is the principal supporter of terrorists. The U.S. has been at war with the terrorists for 4 1/2 years and by extension the leaders in Iran.

Therefore, taking out the leaders in Iran and others who support terrorism is allowed under the rules of war. It is not assassination.

[the_Watchman]

I agree that there are too many people flying off the handle. I think it is plain that GW Bush has bent over backwards to intervene in a Moslem country without incurring the onus of a full-blown Crusade.

I think the flap about the cartoons was drummed up by the Mullahs who are scared that Iraq's new government is going to work! This occurred to me when someone pointed out the number of Danish flags available for burning throughout the Middle East. It sure looked like a planned event.

On the other hand, I don't want to hear the word "sanction" from the U.N. or their minions. These guys are worthless. I suggest an ultimatum along the lines of: You Mullahs back away from the uranium, or we'll look the other way while Israel conducts bombing practice within your borders.

[Jhohanna]

Other than some outside-the-box intellectuals like Harris, and a bunch of grass-roots conservatives, and Michael Savage and a few talk-radio hosts, the people in general don't see a problem. They are not even aware that there is a culture to defend, or that other people have other ideas they are ready to impose those ideas on us. With guns, with slow motion invasions, with multi-culti demands, grinding immigration and suicide bombings.

*bingo* Yeah, they are too busy worrying about American Idol tonight, or what pants they are going to buy at the mall. Or what Britney Spears is doing or why JLo hasn't announced her pregnancy yet. Or ... you see my point.

And with the dumbing down of Mainstream Media, it's only getting worse. When I see a Britney Spears story run at the top of the frickin' hour about her baby - WTF?!?!? MSNBC won't even *discuss* Iran. *GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR*!! And I'm screwed cuz I can't listen to any streaming anything here at work. *feh*

But you hit the nail on the head Jack... people just don't see enough to care. And no one is standing up and saying - WAKE THE F UP PEOPLE!!!!! Our culture and lifestyles are *all* under attack in this nation. From the point where our kids can't get jobs because illegals are taking them - to me not being able to get a job because even though I'm female, I don't speak Hindi, Pashtun, or Farsi - YES, this has happened to me because of being in the Software Industry.... You can't speak with your H1B holding coworkers, you ain't gonna get a job.

Whatever happened to American Pride? Buy American, BE American, CELEBRATE America!!! Not this pussyfootin' politcally-diverse-correct idiocy that is poisoning the minds of your children. (Well, you that have your kids in public school or state universities... Mine won't go to either).

[50sDad]

The best bet is to build up a free and prosperous Iraq. Iranians will start looking across the border and saying "Hey! Why can't we have that?"

The young and unarmed Iranians are doing that right now. The old and the heavily armed Iranians are manning the secret police.

Israel can be a glassy crater in twelve minutes. What do we use to prevent that?

[bassmaner]

The sad fact is that the DimRats and their MSM tools have convinced a segment of the country (fortunately not yet a majority, but unfortunately enough to make a difference) that the Iraq war was based on a "lie": ie. Saddam's "non-existent" WMD. Anyone with half a brain knows that that's lying leftist (redundancy??) propaganda: no genocidal dictator has ever voluntarily given up his weapons without a fight, and the evidence that said weapons were moved to Syria fore safekeeping is becoming clearer with each passing day.

So, if the balloon goes up with Iran, expect the same tired old crap from the Left: "Bush Lied People Died ... blah blah blah". Never mind that one of the Dem (mainstream, not moonbat, although they're melding together of late ...) talking points about Iraq was that GWB "took his eye off the ball" with regard to the WOT and Osama bin Laden. They have also cited that North Korea and Iran were more imminent threats than Iraq, but those statements will go down the MSM memory hole (just like the pre-war statements about Iraq) to further the anti-Bush agenda if it becomes necessary to take out the mullahs.

And if (God forbid) the mullahs do manage to nuke an American, Israeli, or European city, they'll scream bloody murder that Bush didn't do enough to prevent it.

It becomes more and more obvious every day that the fifth-column leftists in this country are as much of a threat to our survival as bin Laden, the mullahs, or any other 3rd World homicidal maniac. We loyal Americans ignore this fact at our own peril.

[untrained skeptic]

No they are running at our allies not us.

We've also had time to ask questions. Iran is giving us the answers. They are refusing to stop enriching uranium. They are refusing to agree to inspections under the nopoliferation treaty. They are violating their treaty obligations and they are publicly and consistently reaffirming their plans to destroy Israel.

The analogy is a bit off. Let's modify it.

It's not our children's school. We're in a different town and our children don't go to this particular school.

This isn't some unknown crazy person, but someone we recognize as having a brutal history and they aren't making vague threats about hating children, they're yelling "I'm going to kill the children!"

There is a security guard at the school, but it looks like our current policy is to yell at the security guard to not hurt the attacker and leave them alone.

[GOPJ]

These weapons are far less costly than nuclear weapons, and the technology required to develop them is more widely available. And since a cupful of anthrax or botulism is enough to kill 100,000 people, our ability to detect these weapons is – zilch. So why wouldn't the mullahs in Teheran order the development of chemical and biological weapons? If they really do plan to wipe Israel – or us – off the map, these will do the job just as well as nukes.

My guess is it'll be nukes for Israel, and bios for us. They want to minimize the damage done to themselves. Here's what they don't understand. Some of those countries that seem like friends -- China, North Korea, Cuba -- Pakistan - some of those folks are going to flood in during the aftermath chaos and take over the oil fields. And yeah, it'll be easy. If Iran was smart, they'd pull back from the brink.

[Outland]

"Shoot first and ask questions later."

Sadly, in our usual manner, we'll wait for them to shoot first and then we'll be asking questions later. And then someone will blame Bush.

[RightWhale]

The Mullahs aren't running at us with nukes

Yes, they are.

[geezerwheezer]

Your questions are really succinct. I wish I knew the answers to them, but I feel that we Americans have already given up on the rest of the world, and we all suffer more and more because of it. When our national press is stabbing each of us in the back, the world telling us we are not worthy of a darn thing, when our own people say we are greedy, warmongering, and selfish, it does make you wonder. The great American pride has been shot all to hell and back, and it looks like a lot of dark days ahead, until you realize we are the beacon of democracy, freedom, and liberty. We may not be perfect as a nation, and we might allow idiots like Jimmy Carter, Ted Kennedy, etc., say the nasty things they say, and we just might be arrogant too! But you must realize this one thing...you are an American, and you don't have to kiss anyone's a$$, you can do what you want, and you are the envy of the rest of the world. Be proud, and if "they" don't like it, feel free to tell them to shove it.

[Jhohanna]

you are an American, and you don't have to kiss anyone's a$$, you can do what you want, and you are the envy of the rest of the world. Be proud, and if "they" don't like it, feel free to tell them to shove it.

*muuuuuuwah*! :x Thank you ... I remember this every day that I get up to go to work in the morning. And I remember the sacrifices that my loved ones both alive and dead made for these freedoms that the Left, Press, and idiotas all take so much for granted.

In all of that, I also see my DUTY and my HONOR to serve this country, represent Her proudly, and SHINE as that beacon of freedom, justice and liberty! And to show the rest of the neysayers, Dems and Wingnuts of all parties included, that we are a Good, Free, and Proud People. I am that light on top of a hill, just like so many of my fellow Americans, and I could never ever darken that shine with the dark thoughts and hatred perpetuated by the likes of Howard Dean Party.

And I'm exercising that freedom and power of economic choice and purchasing another FORD. As opposed to some Japanese or Korean made car.... so what if 3 of the last 4 Fords I bought died on me. :P I'm still an American girl with leaded in my veins. And I'm challenging my friends and fellow Americans to do the same. Put your money where your mouth is... BUY AMERICAN!

Sadly enough... they all subscribe to the Hilary Clinton School of Analytic Thinking, and wouldn't dare buy American because Japanese and Chinese products are so much better! *gack*

[Eighth Square]

It's really academic, because no US politician will risk the furor that is sure to follow, when either the mullahs start dropping or the sites are taken out with a pe-empt. I am afraid the West is doomed to be on the receiving end of the initial strike, then at least with Bush & Company at the helm, we will blow 'em off the map. In the mean time, we had better hang on to our tin hats.

Not so with the Israelis, however. IMO

[Cementjungle]

Now, what do you propose to do?

Write a letter to your editor complaining about how your rights are being trashed by the government spying on you, then sue the governent for not doing enough to protect us.

[Former Proud Canadian]

bump

[Former Proud Canadian]

With all respect due a fellow freeper, I don't think you understand the depth of the problem. Iran is led by a certifiable religious fanatic whose goal is to precipitate the apocalypse, thereby hastening the arrival of the 12th Madhi (whatever that is) and the triumph of islam. I'm not kidding.

You are attributing western values like rationality to an irrational regime. They are not going to pull back from the brink. They want to go over the brink asap and take us with them.

[GOPJ]

GOPJ to Trident/Delta
On News/Activism ^ 02/06/2006 5:41:16 PM EST · 17 of 29 ^

I think Ahmadinejad believes the the Twelfth Iman is here now. His delusion, if that's what it is, has taken on a "real" feel. He's acting as if he knows it's happening. Why would that be unless he has met the person he believes to be the one. Is that possible?


The Hojjatieh have always believed that the 12th Imam walks the earth. that he is a timeless being that is being "hidden" by Allah until the appropriate level of chaos on earth is underway and the Mahadi steps forth to calm all. The Hojjatieh believe that they can stir up emough hate and discontent to force this to happen. Semper Intell



Iranian Alert - February 6, 2006 - Iran says will teach attackers a lesson ^
  Posted by GOPJ to Trident/Delta
On News/Activism ^ 02/06/2006 6:04:31 PM EST · 19 of 29 ^

The Hojjatieh have always believed that the 12th Imam walks the earth. that he is a timeless being that is being "hidden" by Allah until the appropriate level of chaos on earth is underway and the Mahadi steps forth to calm all. Just a few more questions - is the Mahdi a human who becomes inhabited by the spirit of the 12 Iman? The Mahdi is supposed to be a direct descendant of Mohammed and have a broad nose. It sounds like the person is born, lives here and is overcome by the spirit of the Mahdi... is that close?


by Trident/Delta to GOPJ
On News/Activism ^ 02/06/2006 9:29:25 PM EST · 22 of 29 ^

Very close. The "spirit" of the Mahdi is "secreted" into the soul of a common human. At the appropriate time, the spirit if the Mahdi will "rise" to assume the body of the "host" (yes, I KNOW it sounds like a bad episode of StarGate). The soul of the host will go to Allah, (you know, 72 Virgins et.al.)I had deliberately left out the nose part. What you didn't mention was the Upper Nile connection. (Popular consensus is that the Mahadi will arise as a black African. You just can't make this stuff up!) Iran has already been making quiet overatures to Zimbabwe and Chad. The Islamic presence on the dark continent has been growing diametrically.This is going to get more and more interesting.Semper Fi


Trident/Delta to GOPJ
On News/Activism ^ 02/07/2006 12:07:35 AM EST · 26 of 29 ^

It is part of the Hojjatieh belief system. Each sect has its own views on the Mahdi. For example, the Sunnis believe that:According to the reported sayings of the Prophet Muhammad some of the features of al-Mahdi are:

* He will be tall
* He will be fair complexioned
* His facial features will be similar to those of the Prophet Muhammad
* His character will be like that of the Prophet Muhammad
* His father's name will be Abdullah [same as Prophet Muhammad's father]
* His mother's name will be Aamina [same as Prophet Muhammad's mother]
* He will speak with a slight stutter
* He will occasionally hit his hand upon his thigh when he stutters
* His age at the time of his emergence will be forty years
* He will born in medina (literally a city or township)
* He will receive Knowledge from Allah


The Wahabbis have an altogether different view. I left out Hojjetiah features because some Freeper will grab the characteristics from one of the other sects and miss the whole point.

The primary point is the belief that if enough chaos is generated, the 12th Imam will emerge.

Semper Fi