I suppose you'll now tell that there is no proof that it is blue.
Posted on 02/25/2006 12:37:44 PM PST by Irish_Thatcherite
Here are links to show otherwise, though I suppose you will still have you head in the sand;
Reiss set to meet Rafferty family (Joeseph Rafferty was murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA)
IRA in link to £70m property empire
Frank Connolly hits back at Colombia claims
Closely watched by two police forces, the quiet farmer who calmly looks after the IRA's millions
Colombia Three 'not in hiding' after surprise return (How low will the Irish Government go?)
Sinn Fein Members Held in Money Laundering Swoop
Ireland: Three Sinn Fein Members in IRA
Sinn Fein leaders 'sanctioned IRA's £26m bank raid'
I'm not even going to reply to the rest of the crap on your post, all you are doing is trying to get the IRA off the hook, one thing I take issue with though;
You're excused. Now stop whinning like a little girl.
Could you please tell me how I am supposed to be "whinning like a little girl" by taking a hardline stance against my country's domestic terrorists and subversives?
You believe what you wish - Irish democracy is still in danger.
And shame on you for not condemning the Dublin riot!!
HEHE, this thing is getting old - but I'll stay as long as he stays, even if he is only rehashing the the same old stuff!!
You wrote: "Here are links to show otherwise, though I suppose you will still have you head in the sand;"
I went to the first link. It was about a murder. ONE murder. That is quite a distance from overthrowing an entire state. I won't even bother looking at the other links because their titles tell me nothing about what you claim and I have no reason to think you were anymore accurate about them than you were the first article. Either post evidence or stop bleating.
"Reiss set to meet Rafferty family (Joeseph Rafferty was murdered by Sinn Fein/IRA)"
One murder will not overthrow Ireland's democracy.
"IRA in link to £70m property empire"
Still not enough to overthrow Ireland's democracy.
"Frank Connolly hits back at Colombia claims"
Columbia is not Ireland.
"Closely watched by two police forces, the quiet farmer who calmly looks after the IRA's millions"
I remember this article -- nothing in it hints at the IRA successfully taking over Ireland.
"Colombia Three 'not in hiding' after surprise return (How low will the Irish Government go?)"
Any hints at the IRA successfully taking over Ireland in that article?
"Sinn Fein Members Held in Money Laundering Swoop"
Any hints at the IRA successfully taking over Ireland in that article?
"Ireland: Three Sinn Fein Members in IRA"
Oh, my gosh, THREE! Well, that's it, Ireland's done for!
"Sinn Fein leaders 'sanctioned IRA's £26m bank raid'"
And Ireland collapsed afterward right?
"I'm not even going to reply to the rest of the crap on your post, all you are doing is trying to get the IRA off the hook, one thing I take issue with though;"
Look, you've utterly failed to prove what you claimed. Have you shown ANY evidence whatsoever that the IRA is poised to overthrow Ireland's democracy? Nope. Not a single shred. Why embarrass yourself this way? The IRA has exactly zero chance of ever overthrowing Ireland's democracy. ZERO. I asked for evidence. I got none. You posted links to old stories about the IRA's criminal activities -- NONE OF WHICH ARE ABOUT THE IRA OVERTHROWING IRELAND'S DEMOCRACY. You've lost.
"Could you please tell me how I am supposed to be "whinning like a little girl" by taking a hardline stance against my country's domestic terrorists and subversives?"
You're not taking a hardline. You are fantasizing. You are whinning like a hurt little girl about things that are not even happening. Take all the hardline you want against the IRA, but don't invent things that aren't happening. Come back to reality. I never left.
"You believe what you wish - Irish democracy is still in danger."
No, it isn't. If it were you would be able to present much more concrete evidence than you have. if it is in danger it will be caused by Chicken Little's like yourself who will overeact, fantasize, play make believe and otherwise embarrass yourself into creating an unstoppable IRA bogey.
"And shame on you for not condemning the Dublin riot!!"
Shame on you for thinking that I must post according to your likes. For someone so worried about democracy you seem rather demanding about how I must exercise my freedoms. The "Dublin riot" seems about as worrisome as your umbrage and as threatening as your bleating.
You wrote: "HEHE, this thing is getting old - but I'll stay as long as he stays, even if he is only rehashing the the same old stuff!!"
I don't mind helping you embarrass yourself. You do most of the heavy lifting in that regard, while I merely point out the obvious.
Comment: Alan Ruddock: Sinn Fein and the IRA are two heads of the same monster
"The Provisional IRA and some of O Snodaigh’s colleagues in the upper echelons of Sinn Fein have engaged in many, many abductions and murders over the years. That, of course, is all deemed ancient history in this brave new world of political forgiveness, but O Snodaigh’s close associates have more recent form. Niall Binead, one of his electoral workers, was arrested and convicted in late 2004 of his involvement in, among other things, an IRA spy ring that gathered intelligence on cabinet ministers and TDs. Political subversion, pure and simple."
"We have allowed ourselves to swallow the propaganda that Provisional republicanism is made up of two branches, Sinn Fein and the IRA, even though we know they are umbilically connected, sharing much the same leadership, the same goals and the same determination to subvert this state."
"Sinn Fein/IRA represents a criminal conspiracy against this state. It is immersed in crime, is engaged in intelligence gathering, may or may not have retained an armed capability, and remains wedded to its own interpretations of what constitutes a criminal act."
I wrote: I'm sure you are embarrassing yourself - I can't tell with your head in the sand.
1) The RA have nothing to do with AQ (why is Vlad at such pains to point this out?)
2) Libya's guns and semtex to murder those who opposed their murderous regime happened in the 70s and 80s - history, get over it man, stop living in the past!
3) It's all the Brits fault anyway
4) This is the 21st century.
5) Every thing about the IRA we mention are fantasies
The problem I see here with some on this thread is that if you loath the shinners, as I do, then you are somehow in tow of the loyalist terrorists on the other side. To me, there's no difference between the shankill bucthers and sinn fein. Their very essence is violence and terror - period.
Yes, especially with our country going through one of it's sleep-walking phases!!
1) The RA have nothing to do with AQ (why is Vlad at such pains to point this out?)
I guess he doesn't wish for the IRA to be added to Dubya's 'list'.
To me, there's no difference between the shankill bucthers and sinn fein. Their very essence is violence and terror - period.
Yes, and the only reason we make a bigger deal of the IRA at the moment is because of the magnitude of the threat they pose - if it was the Loyalists tomorrow, we would concentrate on them.
You wrote: "Here is a link you cannot dispute;
Comment: Alan Ruddock: Sinn Fein and the IRA are two heads of the same monster"
Uh, who would ever dispute a link? You mean that there is an opinion piece I would not dispute. There's just one problem, the opinion piece really says nothing of what you claimed. You said the IRA was going to destroy Irish democracy. It isn't. Let's look at your "evidence"
"The Provisional IRA and some of O Snodaigh’s colleagues in the upper echelons of Sinn Fein have engaged in many, many abductions and murders over the years. That, of course, is all deemed ancient history..."
In political terms it is ancient history. Things have been quiet for more than a decade.
"...in this brave new world of political forgiveness, but O Snodaigh’s close associates have more recent form. Niall Binead, one of his electoral workers, was arrested and convicted in late 2004 of his involvement in, among other things, an IRA spy ring that gathered intelligence on cabinet ministers and TDs. Political subversion, pure and simple."
1) He was convicted in 2004. That means the threat is over for certainly the "ring" if it ever existed was broken up.
2) Spying on government ministers IS NOT the same thing as OVERTHROWING a government or an entire political system. If that were the case then you would have to accuse every major government of trying to overthrow Irish democracy because all major governments spy on Ireland as they spy on every other European nation.
3) Niall Binead was convicted and jailed in 2004. So in just the last two years we have seen a major disarmament of the IRA in the north (and south of course) and the break up of their “spy ring”. Sounds like the IRA is at an all time low really. No, or few, guns, and now no spies against the government (or at least far fewer effective ones). That would mean they are even less of a “threat” then you have been claiming! Your opinion piece actually helps prove my case.
"We have allowed ourselves to swallow the propaganda that Provisional republicanism is made up of two branches, Sinn Fein and the IRA, even though we know they are umbilically connected, sharing much the same leadership, the same goals and the same determination to subvert this state."
Except that they are clearly not subverting the state, and can’t succeed in doing so. Few or no guns, few or no spies. No subversion is going to take place.
This is in a commentary article and is little more than hyperbole. If there was a real threat then Irish troops would be on alert, the EU would be in a panic, etc. No such thing has happened because there is no such threat.
"Sinn Fein/IRA represents a criminal conspiracy against this state. It is immersed in crime, is engaged in intelligence gathering, may or may not have retained an armed capability, and remains wedded to its own interpretations of what constitutes a criminal act."
And still can’t do much of anything that is all that threatening to an entire nation.
Thanks for proving my point for me!
Have a good and holy Lent.
Because your posts sound hysterical.
You're as bad as all the wacky Orangemen who feel compelled to dress up and march through other peoples' neighborhoods.
You wrote:
“Yea, I'm definitely getting a bit jaded listening to the same old mantra. Good fun though listening to someone who really believes that democracy is so strong that it cannot be sub-vented by terrorists. Best to walk off leave well alone. To sum up Vlads talking points in his last post to me: 1) The RA have nothing to do with AQ (why is Vlad at such pains to point this out?)”
I wasn’t at any pain to do so at all. You claimed, without evidence, to the contrary concerning the IRA and Al-Qaeda.
“2) Libya's guns and semtex to murder those who opposed their murderous regime happened in the 70s and 80s - history, get over it man, stop living in the past!”
Nope. I just pointed out the obvious. Those events were in the 1970’s and 1980’s. You made assumptions about NOW based on those events decades ago. I, unlike you, actually remember what you wrote. This was the paragraph:
“I find your post hilarious! I believe GW Bush when he says Al Quada are a threat to western democracy and they have a lot less then 10% support in the US. Remember, the shinbags have connections with all sorts terrorists organizations around the world. They used Libya's guns and semtex to murder those who opposed their murderous regime, politicians, community leaders, police, anyone.”
Clearly you were the one AT PAINS to link the IRA to Al-Qaeda and tried to do so by saying, 1 ) “the shinbags have connections with all sorts terrorists organizations around the world,” 2) “They used Libya's guns and semtex to murder those who opposed their murderous regime, politicians, community leaders, police, anyone,” after referencing Al Qaeda. And that was not the only time.
In your previous post you had written: “There are Al Qaida operatives in this country as I speak, don't tell me Sinn Fein/IRA don't know who and where they are.” So who here is at pains WITHOUT ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to prove something about Al Qaeda? It’s you, not me.
“3) It's all the Brits fault anyway”
No, but certainly they had a large role to play. Do you deny that they in fact hold some responsibility in all the troubles of Ireland over the last few centuries? My comment was much more even-handed than your insipid caricature of it: “…but the people of Northern Ireland and Britain could have done more about the other two problems and the Provos would never have had a reason for being in the 1970's and 1980's.” Do you deny that that is true? Couldn’t the people of Northern Ireland and the British have done more to forestall the resurrection of the IRA?
“4) This is the 21st century.”
And do you deny that it is the 21st century?
“5) Every thing about the IRA we mention are fantasies”
And who said that? Not me. If you wish to attack what I believe do you think you could muster up enough integrity to actually attack what I in fact said? Your nutty idea that the IRA will overthrow Irish democracy is a fantasy.
“The problem I see here with some on this thread is that if you loath the shinners, as I do, then you are somehow in tow of the loyalist terrorists on the other side. To me, there's no difference between the shankill bucthers and sinn fein. Their very essence is violence and terror - period.”
Some of this thread? You are not talking about me.
“I guess he doesn't wish for the IRA to be added to Dubya's 'list'.”
Would that mean they will suddenly be overthrowing Irish democracy? Nope.
“Yes, and the only reason we make a bigger deal of the IRA at the moment is because of the magnitude of the threat they pose - if it was the Loyalists tomorrow, we would concentrate on them.”
The IRA poses no threat of any “magnitude”. Get a grip.
Have a good Lent!
I suppose you'll now tell that there is no proof that it is blue.
Does it strike you as strange that two Irish people totally disagree with you?
Do you condemn the IRA?
Lets go through the standard shinner response to that!
1) Let's not get into the politics of condemnation
2) We regret some of the things commutated in our name, but this was a war situation
3) I can't condemn the murder of Jerry McCabe without the authority of the sinn fein leadership (Tereasa Ferris' answer to Pat Kenny on the subject of shooting Gardai in the back while they were sitting in a car)
4) Do YOU condemn loyalist terrorism? (I love that one - shinners get flustered when you answer YES!)
5 The children blown up by the bin-bomb was a tragic accident
6 The WW2 veterans blown up on remembrance day by the IRA was a tragic mistake (even IRA admits the intention was to murder and maim Westerns)
7 When the British PM contemns the occupation of Ireland, then I'll condemn the IRA when they kill civilians
8 The 30 people killed in Omagh was done by the REAL IRA, not the IRA - nothing to do with me.
9) Have you seen "In the name of the Father"?? We are the real victims.
10)Always condemning any mention that Gerry and Martin are in the IRA army council (until Martin admitted that he was chief of staff of the IRA in the 70s at the Bloody Sunday tribunal, which, of course, they condemn)
Of course, the shinners never miss an opportunity to condemn the things they don't like - here's some:
1) free market capitalism
2) the police (Garda and PSNI)
3) George Bush (shinners despise W with a passion)
4) war in Iraq (shinners often seen demonstrating in Shannon)
5) freedom to bear firearms (unbelievably they condemned the right of farmers to have shotguns after a Mayo farmer shot an intruder)
6) they condemn the right to life of the unborn stating at their 'ard aeis' that abortion is a woman's right
7) The Columbian government
8) They condemned the Irish government for not releasing the McCabe murderers
9) They condemned Ronald Regan when he came to Ireland
10) Condemned the RC church for not allowing gays to marry or be priests
11) They condemned the 2000 they murdered during the 'troubles'
Good response, Colosis!!
I'm bookmarking that post!!
I notice Vladimir hasn't come back today!
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