FOX says Milosevic is dead....

[joan]

The Muslims were big at staging attacks for PR purposes - and were witnessed by UN soldiers and officials who served there, such as James R. Davis. He speaks of providing security when the British Foreign Secretary was in town, and the Muslims took the opportunity to stage numerous attacks - watching them obviously and tracking their movements. Again and again during the day.

Sharp End: A Canadian Soldier's Story

Page 173:

..."On 17 July, we were tasked to provide VIP security for a meeting between all the factions and Sir Douglas Hurd, the British Foreign Secretary....

We spent the day moving the foreign Secretary around and dodging well-staged incidents the locals (Muslims) put on for his benefit. At the Bosnian Presidency the TDF (Territorial Defense Forces) mortared their own people again as Hurd arrived. He had just dismounted from Kevin's track when several mortars slammed into the square across the road, killing several civilians. It had been staged by the Muslims to impress Hurd. They told him the Serbs did this to them everyday, when in fact they killed their own people again for political reasons. Animals."

Page 167-168: ... "That evening there were some kids hanging around on a patio at the base of the building. The guys had thrown them some candy until I told them to stop. I didn't want every kid in the city coming to hang out beneath our windows. Also on the patio was an attractive teenage girl. She spoke some English and was having a conversation with some of our guys who were hanging out the window.

Suddenly, out of the corner of his eye, one of the troops saw... a mortarbomb. In the moment before it detonated, he realized it was heading right for the kids. Before he could shout a warning, the bomb exploded. The impact threw our guys back out of the window and onto the floor. Immediately, more rounds followed and the building rocked. ..Warrant Sullivan... rushed outside...

What he found shocked him to the core. There were little pieces of children everywhere. Arms, legs and blood covered the patio. The teenage girl had died instantly. The other kids were badly wounded. Brit medics showed up and tried to sort out the mess... They got the kids on street chars and tried to match the arms and legs with the proper child. It was horrible.

...

Later that night, the platoon area was pretty subdued. Some of the guys blamed themselves for talking to the kids and throwing them candy, but we all knew- we hadn't launched those bombs.

The next morning, a report came in from the observers that no Serb mortars had fired that they were aware of. The trajectory was calculated and it was determined that the Bosnians had mortared their own children. For public relations purposes. Sure enough, the morning news in the city reported that the UN and their Serb allies had killed these children. We could not believe it. I can't speak for the others, but that morning I would have happily killed any TDF (Muslim) troops I saw. I was growing tired of the whole mess. These people did not care. They were animals.

Still, it was my job. We were still a platoon with a job to do. I tucked all my feelings away and tried to be my normal, carefree self. It wasn't the last time the Bosnians murdered their own people in well-staged attacks for PR reasons."...

[kosta50]

My take on this is that they had nothing on Miloshevich and that his trial, even if it ended in some kind of a Soviet-style "conviction," would have been an embarrassment and a politicial fallout in the years to come, so Miloshevich had to be eliminated. This way, the various groups who wanted to see Miloshevich convicted, were "robbed" of their satisfaction, but in the end it was the price to be paid for a failed court from the get-go, a "court" that resmebles no courts in the world, where the accused may not face his accusers (which, by the way, was the Inquisitionary Court practice), or where the judge and the prosecutor are one and the same (Turkish Ottoman court system).

If they had "solid" evidence on him, they would have convicted him long ago. To blame the stalled process on his frequent health issues is for those with no memory. Miloshevich was not absent for health reasons until well into his trial, and started "losing" his health after he came under the Hague Dr. Mengele medical care. He came from his illegal arrest in Serbia (for which Zoran Djindjich paid a price he knew he would pay but foolishly believed his western cronies would protect him) healthy enough to mount a self-defense and to stand up and shred prosecution witnesses all on his own.

I was never a supporter of Miloshevich, but he was a Serb at least. Many today who serve in his place wouldn't even know how to spell that word.

[joan]

Sarajevo was a divided city, and the Bosnian Muslims had a large army there. The Serbs had a good-sized population in Sarajevo and they concentrated in certain places to feel safer once the ethnic violence started. The Serbs trapped in Muslim controlled parts were often doomed to concentration camps, prison, or death. The Serbs didn't want the Bosnian army getting the Serb sectors. The front lines, which ran near the middle of Sarajevo, basically stayed the same througout the war - until Dayton handed it all over to the Muslims. The Serbs only wanted to hang on to what they had, for if the Muslims gained control they would be harmed - including many murders - if they didn't leave.

Here is just some testimony from the Hague. You will note that the Muslims already had heavy weapons in late 1992 and there were military battles causing casualties on both sides. The media presented it as Serbs suddenly firing upon civilians, when they were acting against the Muslim militants.

Further, a witness says that the days often started quiet until the Muslims would launch mortar attacks at 6:00 a.m., and the Serbs would fire a greater number in response. What else could they do?

http://www.un.org/icty/transe29/020524ED.htm

WITNESS: JAMES PHILIPE CUTLER

“...I flew into Sarajevo as a senior military observer on the 21st of December, 1992, and officially took over from Lieutenant-Colonel Richard Mole on the day after Christmas, [Realtime transcript read in error " "] the 26th of December, 1992.

Yes, I have covered the -- to monitor the airport agreement, to monitor the heavy weapons concentration sites on both sides, to monitor prisoner of war and body exchanges, to monitor the incoming and outgoing fire on both sides, and from the main mandate, to provide our best humanitarian efforts anywhere we could and to generally report the situation as it was reported by UNMOs so that those reports would go through to high headquarters. Those were the major tasks…

A. Just prior to me arriving in Sarajevo, there was what Colonel Mole described the battle of Otes, which was on the western flank of Sarajevo city. There had been intense battle, preceded by heavy artillery concentrations, tank fire, anti-aircraft fire, and very intense front line infantry attacks. The front lines in that particular area were very close. Colonel Mole told me that I had arrived at a good time because they were licking their wounds and removing bodies from the battle site. And a total evidence would indicate there was many casualties on both sides, and once again, anecdotal evidence would indicate it was a time when the Bosnian Serb Army, the Sarajevo Corps, realised that there was some very strong resistance, and I think there was a lot of loss of life on the front lines on both sides.

…It disturbed me greatly that it would appear that both sides had great delight on sniping of UNMO vehicles, on UNMO OPs, and also there had been the odd close shelling to UNMO OPs within Sarajevo.

Q. Colonel Cutler, during the course of your tenure in Sarajevo, do you -- or did you receive any information that the army of Bosnia-Herzegovina was using the hospital grounds to launch mortars?

A. Yes, there had been a lot of rumours floating around that, in fact, mortars were being used or various United Nations installations, the locations of the Egyptian and Ukrainian battalion, and in particular, the Kosevo hospital had been used to screen firing of mortars by the Presidency forces.

On the -- I was obviously delighted that on the second week in January, I think it was on the 12th of January, a colonel sergeant from the British Cheshire regiment, who had been in charge of mortars, asked to see me. He had been asking who he could give a statement to. I welcomed him into my office and I took a statement from him that involved him witnessing the fire of a mortar, an 82-millimetre mortar, from adjacent to the Kosevo hospital. I think it was early afternoon. The Colonel sergeant had been escorting a convoy of fuel to that hospital. He and his crew observed this mortar firing five rounds from the hospital, adjacent to the hospital grounds, as part of the hospital grounds.… On leaving the hospital grounds, which would have been in the order of 30 minutes later, the hospital came under mortar, artillery, and anti-aircraft fire…

In the February-March period, that was – seemed to be particularly evident to the stage where we would get up in the morning, 6.00, no activity whatsoever and then we would hear a couple of "pop pops" which were obviously outgoing mortar fire from the Bosnian, and within a short few minutes later, there would be incoming fire, and normally the incoming fire would be more than two rounds. If two rounds were fired out, it would be something in the order of 10 to 15 rounds would be incoming…

So you would hear outgoing fire from the Presidency side, the Bosnian side, followed by incoming?

A. Correct.

[infidel_and_proud]

Oh dear,

"You know you've lost the battle when you find yourself nitpicking over spelling."

Come on, what do you expect for making a "Comical Ali" comparison? The whole point about Comical Ali was he spouted nonsense. The whole point about the Markale incident was that the Bosnian Serbs were correct.

BTW,

You're correct when you talk of the Bosnian Serbs not knowing about P.R.

What's pretty inexcusable is the U.S. administration should have been far wiser in seeing through blatant lies. Something that's been noticably lacking since George Bush Sr left office. The results in "falling for it" have been disastrous for the U.S. In Bosnia and Kosovo they ended up on the same side as the Mujahideen and the Iranians and they got suckered into Iraq because of an Iranian double agent.

You're right about the importance of playing and understanding the P.R. game. Unfortunately, it's not only the Serbs who are lousy at the media game. The Israelis aren't much better.

Back to Markale, the press was waiting behind a barricade for the shell to explode. They'd been invited by the Muslim Government.

Draw your own conclusions about that

[infidel_and_proud]

From Tommy.

"There's no 1984 conspiracy here; just a bunch of Serbian leaders too stupid to understand the very basics of PR.

And I don't mean Rudder Finn PR, either. A highschool pothead could tell you why you shouldn't answer 2 shells with 10-15 in front of a hotel full of friggin journalists!"

Well, the U.S. administration fell for it too, didn't they. As I said, the Muslims are way way ahead of the media game than the Infidels.

Sad but true.

After all, the U.S. ended up working with the Iranians to channel arms to the Mujahideen into Europe.

Talk about falling for the sucker punch.

How about that for "a bunch of leaders too stupid to understand the very basics of PR". Maybe the U.S. Administration should be replaced by "high school potheads".

Just a thought.

[infidel_and_proud]

My "The Isrealis aren't much better" was about their lack of P.R. competency when it comes to "selling" their message in the mass media. Not their behaviour in war.

That should have been pretty obvious.

The Israelis didn't fall the P.R. crap the Bosnian Gov't came out with. The Isrealis knew what was and is at stake in Bosnia.

But the Clinton and Bush Junior administrations fell for it (to borrow one of your phrases) "hook, line and sinker".

And on 9-11 they found out what it costs to be naive and gullible.

[infidel_and_proud]

Yes, I checked ,I wrote

"Unfortunately, it's not only the Serbs who are lousy at the
MEDIA GAME. The Israelis aren't much better."

What I wrote was pretty clear. I was referring to the "MEDIA GAME".

About Markale.

Oh, the media were waiting behind a barricade ffs. Waiting in the exact same direction with cameras poised as the explosion in the Markale market. But to you that's just a spooky coincidence.

Only Islamist apologists bother arguing that the Islamists didn't carry out this act.

Iranian military inteligence (VEVAK) were involved in this "effective" piece of P.R..

I don't really blame your Average Joe for falling for stunts like this.

However, It's come to a sorry state of affairs when the lone superpower doesn't have the intelligence, wit, or just plain common sense to reallies that throwing your lot in with the IRANIANS and BIN LADEN doesn't make for sound foreign policy.

[infidel_and_proud]

"I apologize for Israeli bit; I did indeed misread you."

No problem, I had to check to make sure I'd written what I'd wanted to say.