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Slobo’s Stooges
FrontPageMagazine.com ^ | March 15, 2006 | Jacob Laksin

Posted on 03/16/2006 10:33:46 AM PST by West Coast Conservative

"No one now disputes that stopping Slobodan Milosevic was the right thing to do,” wrote the Wall Street Journal this week, several days after the deposed Serbian strongman expired in his cell in The Hague. It’s an appealing sentiment, suggesting as it does that the man who presided over the deaths of 250,000 people in Yugoslavia in the 1990s died unsung and unmourned. In reality, however, even Slobodan Milosevic had his defenders. What is more, they are the same voices--largely on the far Left but also on the isolationist Right--who have now taken up the cause of Saddam Hussein.

Many of them congregated under the banner of the infamous International Committee to Defend Slobodan Milosevic (ICDSM). Founded in March of 2001 as a personal cheering section for the indicted dictator, the group, whose 1,300 members included the Nobel laureate Harold Pinter, devoted its efforts to charging NATO leaders with “crimes against humanity.“ At the same time, the group cast Milosevic as the latest of the “freedom fighters and patriots” to fall victim to Western “imperial conquest.” In one of its more coherent statements of support, ICDSM asserted that Milosevic’s only crime was “to resist U.S. rule to terrorized slaves ruled by local fascists (conveniently labeled victims of oppression by the pro-NATO media) and all of it dominated by the U.S. and its allies, especially Germany and England.” Nowhere did the ICDSM bother to acknowledge the atrocities committed under Milosevic, from the shelling of Muslim and Croat civilians by Serbian paramilitaries, to the routine executions and rapes, to the wholesale destruction of villages and mass expulsion of non-Serbs that added “ethnic cleansing” to the lexicon of man’s inhumanity to man.

Emblematic of the apologists’ studied disregard for Milosevic’s murderous past was a 2004 letter protesting his trial, addressed to U.N. Secretary General Kofi Annan. Its author was none other than ICDSM co-chairman Ramsey Clark, the former U.S. Attorney General, all-seasons anti-American activist and, most recently, attorney for Saddam Hussein. Rather than address the specifics of the more than 60 charges against Milosevic, Clark assailed the very legitimacy of the trial. As Clark saw it, the “spectacle of this huge onslaught by an enormous prosecution support team with vast resources pitted against a single man, defending himself, cut off from all effective assistance, his supporters under attack everywhere and his health slipping away from the constant strain, portrays the essence of unfairness, of persecution.” Never mind that, in 2004, Milosevic had literally pleaded for the right to represent himself, over the objections of prosecutors troubled that his heart condition rendered him unfit for the task.

Unconcerned with the facts of the case, Clark advanced the claim that Milosevic had wanted only to “protect and preserve Yugoslavia” and sought to shift the blame onto “nationalist and ethnic groups…determined to dismember” the country--a spectacularly mendacious portrait of the man who had stoked nationalist and ethnic grievances to cement his hold on power and exterminate innocent civilians whose presence conflicted with his dream of “Greater Serbia.” For a more scrupulous account of Milosevic’s dirty work, one need only consult Samantha Powers’s Pulitzer Prize-winning book A Problem from Hell: America and the Age of Genocide. Of the campaign waged by Milosevic and his henchmen against non-Serb minorities, Powers reflects that “Theirs was a deliberate policy of destruction and degradation: destruction so this avowed enemy race would have no homes to which to return; degradation so the former inhabitants would not stand tall--and thus would not dare again stand--in Serb-held territory.”

No one, save perhaps Milosevic himself, expended greater efforts to cover up this destruction than Edward Herman. As a longtime co-author of Noam Chomsky, Herman, a former professor at the University of Pennsylvania, had a long history of furnishing excuses for Communist killers. In 1977, Chomsky and Herman had famously authored an article for the Nation exonerating the Khmer Rouge and scoffing at the accounts of its victims. In the Communist apparatchik Milosevic, Herman spotted a natural ally.

Accordingly, Herman spent much of the 1990s rehabilitating Milosevic’s reputation. It is a commentary on Herman’s commitment--to say nothing of his political views--that in 1995 he founded the Srebrenica Research Group to defend the indefensible: the 1995 massacre of 8,000 Bosnian men and boys by Serb forces in Srebrenica. Despite the preponderance of evidence attesting to the massacre--including forensic evidence and a list of deceased and missing numbering in the thousands--Herman’s group judged it, incredibly, as a fabrication of the imperialist West, intended to undermine socialism in Serbia. Later, in an essay for the 2000 book Degraded Capability: The Media and the Kosovo Crisis, Herman allowed that genocide had indeed taken place. In keeping with tradition, however, he reposed the blame not on Milosevic and his marauding military but on the NATO bombing campaign, writing that the "humanitarian bombing created more pain and ethnic cleansing than existed prior to the supposedly humane action."

Herman’s collaborator Noam Chomsky sounded a kindred theme. In his 1999 book The New Military Humanism: Lessons from Kosovo, a contemptuous attack on the notion that allied intervention in the Balkans could be considered a humanitarian action, Chomsky blamed the NATO bombing for the “destruction of the civilian society” in the former Yugoslavia. That Milosevic might have had hand in that this destruction was a proposition that did not delay the MIT radical.

Like Herman, Chomsky was not above flirting with genocide denial. For instance, he praised the work of fringe journalist Diana Johnstone, whose 2002 book, Fools’ Crusade: Yugoslavia, NATO, and Western Delusions, was among the most scandalous to be written about the conflict. Beyond proffering the standard revisionism of Milosevic’s reign, Johnstone, an advisor to Herman’s Srebrenica Research Group, denied the demonstrable fact that rape had been systematically committed by Serb forces and claimed that Serb-run concentration camps in Omarska and Trnopolje were really refugee and transit centers--the preferred propaganda line of the Serbian authorities--to which Muslims traveled for protection and could leave whenever they pleased. (Video and photographic evidence, as well as interviews with detainees, argued differently.) And these were not even the most farfetched of Johnstone’s claims.

As in her regular articles, published in the far-Left magazine Counterpunch, Johnstone also denied that a massacre had taken place at Srebrenica. On no credible evidence, Johnstone claimed that Srebrenica, far from an ordinary village, was a “Muslim military base.“ As for the thousands of Muslim men who were never again found alive, Johnstone assured her readers that this was an invention of “Muslim authorities” that had failed to reveal the whereabouts of these men, “preferring to let them be counted among the missing, that is, among the massacred.” Johnstone conceded that a “large, unspecified number of these men were ambushed and killed as they fled in scenes of terrible panic,” but discounted its significance. Srebrenica, she concluded, was a “‘massacre’ such as occurs in war when fleeing troops are ambushed by superior forces.” In other words, what happened at Srebrenica, was not, as the historical consensus had it, a mass execution of civilians, but a lopsided clash between two military forces.

Chomsky initially defended Fools' Crusade on the merits if its argument. In a signed letter to the leftist Swedish magazine Ordfront, co-authored with fellow radicals Tariq Ali, Arundhati Roy and others, Chomsky endorsed Johnstone's book as an “outstanding work, dissenting from the mainstream view but doing so by an appeal to fact and reason, in a great tradition.” Chomsky further pronounced it “quite serious and important.” In an interview with the Britain’s left-wing Guardian, Chomsky further identified himself with Johnstone’s malign theory, describing the Srebrenica massacre as “probably overstated.” Emma Brockes, the journalist who conducted the interview, also noted that, just as Johnstone had done, Chomsky dismissively placed the word “massacre” in quotations. Unlike Johnstone, however, Chomsky lacked the courage of his convictions. When the interview appeared on October 31, 2005, Chomsky remonstrated that he had never doubted that a massacre had taken place. Rather, he now insisted, he had only defended Johnstone’s right to free speech--a face-saving defense plainly incompatible with the facts. Even so, the Guardian, after first defending the story, caved to Chomsky’s complaints and published an undeserved apology.

Not all of Milosevic’s defenders were as reluctant as Chomsky to be seen as whitewashing his crimes. “The most notorious ‘atrocities’ for which Milosevic is accused never happened,” declared a 2001 petition denouncing the “witch-hunt against Slobodan Milosevic.” Its signatories included the Communist writer Michael Parenti, ICDSM Vice-Chairman Jared Israel, and William Blum, an inveterate conspiracy theorist who has earned the favorable notice of Osama Bin Laden. The radical press proved equally charitable. Accepting at face value Milosevic’s self-serving claims to victimhood--the Serbian dictator had long portrayed himself as the target of a “New Fascism” even as he was its leading exponent--the Marxist-Leninist Worker’s World editorialized that “Milosevic has earned the respect of working-class activists worldwide.” Writing in the 2002 edition of the New Statesman, Milosevic votary Neil Clark stated that his “worst crime was to carry on being socialist.” Not to be outdone, Ramsey Clark’s International Action Center, a reliable champion of anti-American regimes, has now released a statement waxing nostalgic over Milosevic’s death and sobbing that the “peoples of the Balkans and of the world will be indebted to him.”

In condemning the NATO campaign against their socialist hero, the far Left found an ally in the isolationist Right. Pat Buchanan, writing in 1999, euphemized Milosevic’s genocidal campaign against non-Serbs as an admirable attempt to “hold onto a province that is the birthplace of Serbian nationhood,” and chided the “New World Order,” led by the United States, for intervening in the internal affairs of another country. When notorious conspiracy theorist and Antiwar.com editorial director Justin Raimondo wasn’t alleging a “longstanding US plan to destabilize the Balkans,” he was unabashedly rooting for Milosevic to beat his rap for war crimes; the title of a 2002 Raimondo column cheered, “Go Slobo, Go!” Nor did these pundits reconsider their sympathy for Milosevic. Commenting on his death this Sunday, paleoconservative columnist Paul Craig Roberts opted for posthumous revisionism. “Milosevic,” he claimed, “was caught up in the post-Soviet era break-up of Yugoslavia,” and “was damned for trying to protect Yugoslavia’s territorial integrity.” On both extremes of the political spectrum, Milosevic was the victim, never the victimizer.

Missing from the far Left’s encomia and the far Right’s excuse-making is any honest reckoning with Milosevic’s blood-soaked legacy. After a decade of ethnic conflict in the Balkans, much of it directly incited by Milosevic, the UN Criminal Tribunal counted 11,334 bodies in 529 gravesites, with as many as 6,000 missing. Many of them were the victims of the Vojska Jugoslavije, the Yugoslav Army, which terrorized and was responsible for the deaths of untold civilians. According to a detailed 593-page report by Human Rights Watch, the army was commanded by Milosevic until October of 2000. Nor will it do, as Milosevic’s defenders attempt, to equate the genocidal tactics of Milosevic’s armies with the undeniable atrocities committed by the Kosovo Liberation Army and the tragic errors of NATO’s bombing strikes. As the journalist Alec Russell, a former Balkan correspondent, has reported, more than 90 percent of the of the war crimes in the former Yugoslavia were perpetrated by Serbs.

If there is any sadness in Milosevic’s death, it is that the world was denied an official verdict to formalize the judgment long ago rendered by history. More regrettable is that until the dictator’s dying day there were those who, out of political sympathy, plain-old anti-Americanism, or both, were willing to forgive him everything.


TOPICS: Editorial; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Philosophy; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: antiwar; balkans; chomsky; clark; communism; hoopielite; ihoppy; milosevic; nato; pancakeboy; pinter; socialism; warcriminal; yugoslavia; zhivioslobodan
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1 posted on 03/16/2006 10:33:51 AM PST by West Coast Conservative
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To: West Coast Conservative
'As the journalist Alec Russell, a former Balkan correspondent, has reported, more than 90 percent of the of the war crimes in the former Yugoslavia were perpetrated by Serbs.'

What a ridiculous citation. I wouldn't accept most presstitutes statements that the sun would rise in the east.
2 posted on 03/16/2006 10:37:38 AM PST by robowombat
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To: West Coast Conservative
In Serbia's defense, he wasn't the only bad guy. Just the worse.

Of course, his argument of defense against Islamic terrorism falls apart when you realize Serbs fought Catholic Croats and Slovenes, and that the rioters of Paris and murderers of van Gogh were not Balkan Muslims, but Arabs from North Africa.

Serbia has little sympathy in the world, and Slobo has little sympathy in Belgrade's younger generation. Unfortunately, thanks to his legacy, we'll have a near-permanent presence in Kosovo and Bosnia.
3 posted on 03/16/2006 10:38:28 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: West Coast Conservative

Do we forget so soon the aerial pictures of "mass graves" that were later debunked? Do we forget how on this very site we all called the war a "Wag the Dog" to distract from the Monica Lewinsky debacle? Do we also forget so soon that NATO entered into a war to break up Yugoslavia and give parcel after parcel of it to the damned muslims? Does anyone remember how Ron Brown was conveniently killed over there? Are the UN peacekeepers over there forgotten who protect CHRISTIANS and CHRISTIAN CHURCHES from muslim mobs? Sorry, I'm just not convinced that Milosevic was doing anything more or less than defending his country from the muslims and then from us.


4 posted on 03/16/2006 10:39:08 AM PST by PeterFinn (Anita Bryant was right!)
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To: West Coast Conservative
Muslims sure have an awesome propaganda machine, where it deals with old Yugoslavia...

I am impressed, but very afraid that this "template" will be used by muslims elsewhere...

5 posted on 03/16/2006 10:42:41 AM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: PeterFinn

Well, they did find those mass graves that Clinton went on and on about.

But we found them in Iraq and they were full of Arabs.

"Clinton lied! People died!"


6 posted on 03/16/2006 10:43:42 AM PST by FormerLib (Kosova: "land stolen from Serbs and given to terrorist killers in a futile attempt to appease them.")
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To: PeterFinn
"Sorry, I'm just not convinced that Milosevic was doing anything more or less than defending his country from the muslims and then from us.

I refuse to discuss anything else until the following questions are answered:

How many operating Christians Churches existed in the muslim areas before we bombed the Serbs?
How many operating Christian churches exist in those same areas today?

Anything else is BS...

7 posted on 03/16/2006 10:45:50 AM PST by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: GAB-1955

Ah....yes, the "legacy" of Slobo makes us stay in Kosovo even as our "freedom loving" Albanian allies burn hundreds of Serb churches....with nary a peep of protest from the state department.


8 posted on 03/16/2006 10:45:55 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: PeterFinn

my sentiments as well. I'm having difficulty buying that milo was the great satan he has been demonized to be. Seems to me he was fighting muslim terrrorists the way he felt they should be fought...with extreme prejudice.

Now the muslims have won thanks to nato and look what they are doing...murdering the very Serbs Milo was trying to defend. Go figure.


9 posted on 03/16/2006 10:46:10 AM PST by takenoprisoner
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To: West Coast Conservative
It’s an appealing sentiment, suggesting as it does that the man who presided over the deaths of 250,000 people in Yugoslavia in the 1990s died unsung and unmourned

And about 150,000 of them were Serbs murdered by muslims and Croatians...

10 posted on 03/16/2006 10:46:20 AM PST by 2banana (My common ground with terrorists - They want to die for Islam, and we want to kill them.)
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To: West Coast Conservative
After a decade of ethnic conflict in the Balkans, much of it directly incited by Milosevic, the UN Criminal Tribunal counted 11,334 bodies in 529 gravesites, with as many as 6,000 missing.

That's it?! That's the reason we put Muslims and some cronies in charge of most of the region and ethnically cleansed a million or so Serbs from it??

11 posted on 03/16/2006 10:46:53 AM PST by palmer (Money problems do not come from a lack of money, but from living an excessive, unrealistic lifestyle)
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To: takenoprisoner

Every president needs a "Hitler" clone to get public support for his or her pet quagmire. Noreiga was GHWB's Hitler, Slobo was Clinton's Hitler, and Saddam is Bush's Hitler. Hitler is dead but his "useful" clones will live forever.


12 posted on 03/16/2006 10:49:11 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Captain Kirk
And if we withdrew, would the situation be worse? Yes. I didn't say the Albanians are saints. What's worse, burnt churches or dead bodies? You can rebuild a church.

I know there's one video out there about the church burnings, but I haven't heard anything from neutral sources about it. (The Serbian media has a BIG credibility gap, another legacy from Slobo).
13 posted on 03/16/2006 10:51:59 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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Comment #14 Removed by Moderator

To: GAB-1955
The best solution is to partition Kosovo and Bosnia along ethnic and religious lines. The Albanian areas should merge with Serbia, the Serb areas with Serbia, the Coat areas go to Kosovo, and the Serb-Muslim bits become independent, etc.

Your "better" solution (are you claming its better?) would have has bogged down for eternity protecting a comic-opera country of Bosnia, that has no legitimacy with anyone and a Kosovo quasi-state that is busily clearing all Serb minority areas. Partition is the best option but the State department, which loves the status quo, stands in the way. In this sense, the policy you support is indeed making matters worse.

15 posted on 03/16/2006 11:00:05 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: GAB-1955

I meant to say the Croat areas should go to Croatia.


16 posted on 03/16/2006 11:00:55 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: Tommy-the-pissed-off-Brit

So then, you think that Clinton was right to bomb Kosovo? I remember the days when folks here opposed the Rapist and Chief's war.


17 posted on 03/16/2006 11:02:43 AM PST by Captain Kirk
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To: West Coast Conservative; All
I am severely disappointed with Front Page and am going to have to research this guy Laskin to see why he has an axe to grind. This looks to be classic disinformation. No one with a double digit IQ could be honestly this blind.
18 posted on 03/16/2006 11:05:03 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Assassinations, cheaper by the dozen.)
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To: PeterFinn

Slobo may or may not have been guilty of war crimes, but he deserved to be tried by his fellow Serbs in Serbia, just as Saddam is being tried by Iraquis in Iraq.


19 posted on 03/16/2006 11:09:56 AM PST by libstripper
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To: West Coast Conservative
Feh.

Even in death Slobo still manages to redirect attention away from the reality of the Balkans - while Russia was generating controversy about Slobo's autopsy, it, along with China, gave assurances they wouldn't stand in the way of Kosovo's independence.

That potential bombshell having passed relatively unnoticed, they discarded the autopsy issue as no longer necessary.

20 posted on 03/16/2006 11:15:43 AM PST by Hoplite
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To: GAB-1955
Just the worst

Not so sure.

the rioters of Paris and murderers of van Gogh were not Balkan Muslims, but Arabs from North Africa.

I'm glad that makes it ok.

I'm relieved to know that there is no Islamic conspiracy to institute (by force) a worldwide Caliphate.

Poor Slobo was misinformed and was unaware of the peaceful means that allowed the Muslims to establish themselves in (what would be) Yugoslavia in the first place.

Serbia has little sympathy in the world.

That you got right.

21 posted on 03/16/2006 11:20:26 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Assassinations, cheaper by the dozen.)
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To: GAB-1955
Actually the independent US presence in Bosnia ended about a year ago. We are still on the hook for our NATO contribution but that is pegged at one infantry company which rotates out of a regular army battalion in Germany. Kossovo, however continues to absorb the efforts of a small brigade. The responsibility for filling this requirement was shifted to the National Guard several years ago after a transition phase in which Guard and regular units alternated. Overall it has been a very expensive and strategically totally irrelevant distraction absorbing hundreds of thousands of man hours and several billion dollars over more than decade. A real Clinton legacy to the Army mostly but all the services that had to waste time, risk death and urinate away dollars in the Balkans.
22 posted on 03/16/2006 11:27:08 AM PST by robowombat
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To: GAB-1955

"Serbs fought Catholic Croats and Slovenes"

Pat Buchanan also flip flopped on Milosevic. During the early 90's, Buchanan supported the Croats and Slovenes and attacked Milosevic for fighting to preserve a communist federation.


23 posted on 03/16/2006 11:30:30 AM PST by Revenge of Sith
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To: Tommy-the-pissed-off-Brit
When Ramsey Clark, Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky are all on your side you know you're wrong.

Normally yes, however, think about this situation economically centering around eastern Europe, and you can see what interests socialists have in Slobo.

24 posted on 03/16/2006 11:30:39 AM PST by Navy Patriot (Assassinations, cheaper by the dozen.)
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To: West Coast Conservative

I made it through about 4 parargraphs...are there any actual facts in this article or is it an endless name-calling rant?


25 posted on 03/16/2006 11:44:53 AM PST by Homer1
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To: libstripper

Agreed. Well said.


26 posted on 03/16/2006 12:27:56 PM PST by PeterFinn (Anita Bryant was right!)
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Comment #27 Removed by Moderator

Comment #28 Removed by Moderator

To: West Coast Conservative; tgambill
Frontpagemagazine has posted the Milosovic Memo, David Horowitz, are you on holidays? Jacob Laskin the scribe seems unaware the court at The Hague desperately needed a guilty verdict to ultimately do to Israel that which was done to Serbia.

This article reminds me so much of how an astrophysicist explains the origin of the solar system...wait, I have a graphic: <[>Image hosting by Photobucket

SUBTITLE: WHY SLOBO HAD TO DIE

29 posted on 03/16/2006 3:00:34 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: Publius6961

Over 150 churches and monasteries in Albania have been destroyed or seriously damaged over the last 6 years. Now authorities project to turn the hull of one sanctuary into a nightclub. The Church of Christ the Savior in Pristina has been turned into public toilet...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1593004/posts

30 posted on 03/16/2006 3:14:24 PM PST by Fred Nerks (Read the bio THE LIFE OF MUHAMMAD free! Click Fred Nerks for link to my Page.)
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To: Pusomobile

flagged....


31 posted on 03/16/2006 3:18:59 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: PeterFinn
Sorry, I'm just not convinced that Milosevic was doing anything more or less than defending his country from the muslims and then from us.

"Right" motives is not everything. Hitler too was "protecting" his country from communism. Socialist's motives are excellent: looooove and prosperity for everybody.

It's the methods that fully show the person. Rhetoric is cheap.

32 posted on 03/16/2006 3:42:20 PM PST by TopQuark
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To: GAB-1955

It seems by 2007, the U.S. may pull out of Kosovo. they are already moving 90% of our troops from Monteith to Bondsteel. Bondsteel is scheduled to close around 2007.

Also, you are right. If he was worse, Ceku is close in there as well as the Serbian leaders....


33 posted on 03/16/2006 3:46:08 PM PST by tgambill (I would like to comment.....)
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To: tgambill

It can't be to soon.


34 posted on 03/16/2006 5:47:27 PM PST by robowombat
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To: tgambill

Can we just shoot them all and start over?


35 posted on 03/17/2006 7:31:32 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: West Coast Conservative; robowombat; GAB-1955; PeterFinn; Publius6961; FormerLib; Captain Kirk; ...
Was the Republican majority congress that voted down Clinton's authorization request for the Kosovo war also Milosevic's stooges?

I was about to get angry at Frontpage but I do remember them posting lots of "pro Serb" articles as well. In fact I am glad they publish both sides of the issue at Frontpage on this because you get to see the character of both camps and the anti-Serb camp comes off as a collection of Statists and internationalists (like internationalist and arch statist Hoplite cheering we reaching a deal with Russia and China regarding splitting up another country's terrirtory like if we were some mafia families cutting up turf).

GAB-1955 also is also trying to downplay the Serb position by mentioning the fact that the Serbs fought the Slovenes and Croats - but in his statement he is being deceptive. The Slovenes attacked Federal Yugoslav forces first and the Yugoslav army withdrew. Did some Yugoslav soldiers fire back? Sure - but to blame Serbia for the fighting in Slovenia is like blaming the North for the Confederate attack on Ft. Sumter.

The Serbs were not on a Crusade. When Yugoslavia fell apart the Serbs tried to not be ruled by Croats and Muslims - the last time the Serbs were ruled by Croats and Muslims was WW2 and they were genocided in ways that made the SS sick. Do you blame the Serbs for not wanting to live under "Catholic" Croatian rule? Especially when they ressurected Nazi era symbols? What the Serb were preplexed about was that they could not understand why the "West" took the side of Croatia who was using Nazi era symbols and the side of Bosnian and Albanian Muslims who were flirting with extremist Islamists.

I stand with the Republican congress which refused to be Clinton's stooges over Kosovo.

These Republicans who voted NO to Clinton's war were proven correct because under NATO Kosovo was ethnic cleansed of Jews, Serbs, Gypsies, and others and has turned into a crime haven black hole.

Just ask tgambill - he was Kosovo security chief- ex Marine and all around good guy (and a hero for making public Kosovo's security files). I still grieve for the murder of the British Tommy who was shot in th ehead for guarding a church - which I think was burned down eventually.

36 posted on 03/17/2006 8:03:06 AM PST by Proctor (http://www.historyofjihad.org)
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To: West Coast Conservative; robowombat; GAB-1955; PeterFinn; Publius6961; FormerLib; Captain Kirk; ...
Was the Republican majority congress that voted down Clinton's authorization request for the Kosovo war also Milosevic's stooges?

I was about to get angry at Frontpage but I do remember them posting lots of "pro Serb" articles as well. In fact I am glad they publish both sides of the issue at Frontpage on this because you get to see the character of both camps and the anti-Serb camp comes off as a collection of Statists and internationalists (like internationalist and arch statist Hoplite cheering we reaching a deal with Russia and China regarding splitting up another country's terrirtory like if we were some mafia families cutting up turf).

GAB-1955 also is also trying to downplay the Serb position by mentioning the fact that the Serbs fought the Slovenes and Croats - but in his statement he is being deceptive. The Slovenes attacked Federal Yugoslav forces first and the Yugoslav army withdrew. Did some Yugoslav soldiers fire back? Sure - but to blame Serbia for the fighting in Slovenia is like blaming the North for the Confederate attack on Ft. Sumter.

The Serbs were not on a Crusade. When Yugoslavia fell apart the Serbs tried to not be ruled by Croats and Muslims - the last time the Serbs were ruled by Croats and Muslims was WW2 and they were genocided in ways that made the SS sick. Do you blame the Serbs for not wanting to live under "Catholic" Croatian rule? Especially when they ressurected Nazi era symbols? What the Serb were preplexed about was that they could not understand why the "West" took the side of Croatia who was using Nazi era symbols and the side of Bosnian and Albanian Muslims who were flirting with extremist Islamists.

I stand with the Republican congress which refused to be Clinton's stooges over Kosovo.

These Republicans who voted NO to Clinton's war were proven correct because under NATO Kosovo was ethnic cleansed of Jews, Serbs, Gypsies, and others and has turned into a crime haven black hole.

Just ask tgambill - he was Kosovo security chief- ex Marine and all around good guy (and a hero for making public Kosovo's security files). I still grieve for the murder of the British Tommy who was shot in th ehead for guarding a church - which I think was burned down eventually.

37 posted on 03/17/2006 8:08:18 AM PST by Proctor (http://www.historyofjihad.org)
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To: Proctor

Browser burped - my apologies to all.


38 posted on 03/17/2006 8:09:52 AM PST by Proctor (http://www.historyofjihad.org)
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To: West Coast Conservative
"the deaths of 250,000 people in Yugoslavia in the 1990s died unsung and unmourned"

This has been disproved already, why do they keep repeating this nonsense?

39 posted on 03/17/2006 9:16:34 AM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: GAB-1955
"You can rebuild a church."

And who will rebuild them, Albanians? They're erasing Serbian history, how do you rebuild that?

40 posted on 03/17/2006 9:18:48 AM PST by montyspython (Love that chicken from Popeye's)
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To: West Coast Conservative

Does anyone have a link to the proof of 250,000 dead in mass graves?


41 posted on 03/17/2006 9:20:18 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it, do you like it. Scott? I call it Mr. and Mrs. Tennerman chili.)
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To: montyspython
Well, since the majority of the population in Kosovo is Albanian, I don't see that many will be rebuilt. But this was the situation before Slobo's speech in 1987, too, wasn't it?

I will admit, like the current Serbian government does, that this whole period was a ten-year civil war in which Serbia tried to hang on to as much territory as possible. It should never have been a holy crusade to save Orthodox Serbia, but Slobo turned it into one, and thus made the situation worse. I recall the reason the Slovenes won is their part of Yugoslavia had the plants with the tanks and AT weapons in them and they were able to stop the Serbian attack. That doesn't mean that Serbia didn't attack.

I actually think that there is a chance for peace, which in this case is a minimum of dissatisfaction on all sides. But Kosovo is going to be a EU-quasi colony for decades. It can't be helped.
42 posted on 03/17/2006 9:56:57 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: West Coast Conservative
On both extremes of the political spectrum, Milosevic was the victim, never the victimizer.

I have zero sympathy for Milosevic.

He did as much damage to the Serbs as he did to the Croats and non-Orthodox Bosnians. He stoked ethnic and religious conflicts to keep himself in power as ruthless dictator.

Good riddance.

43 posted on 03/17/2006 10:03:29 AM PST by george wythe
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To: Lx

"Does anyone have a link to the proof of 250,000 dead in mass graves?"

yea right


44 posted on 03/17/2006 10:36:40 AM PST by takenoprisoner
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To: Proctor

What a deal for Yugo, the US fighting for and defending the albanian mafia muslims and the muslim terrorists so muslims could take control of the territory...to freely go about eliminating the Christian Serbs and other non muslims.

beam me up scotty


45 posted on 03/17/2006 10:53:23 AM PST by takenoprisoner
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Comment #46 Removed by Moderator

To: 2banana
It’s an appealing sentiment, suggesting as it does that the man who presided over the deaths of 250,000 people in Yugoslavia in the 1990s died unsung and unmourned

And about 150,000 of them were Serbs murdered by muslims and Croatians...

What a bald faced-lie. No one belives your dumb propoganda.

47 posted on 03/17/2006 11:32:32 AM PST by NYC Republican
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To: NYC Republican; 2banana
You are right, NYC - 2banana is wrong - in fact the death toll was LESS!!

From: THE BOSNIA CALCULATION: How many have died? Not nearly as many as some would have you think.

George Kenney

The NY Times Magazine, April 23, 1995

- George Kenney, a Washington writer, resigned from the State Department int 1992 to protest United States policy Yugoslavia. -

Neither the International Committee of the Red Cross nor Western governments have found evidence of systematic killing. Nobody, moreover, has found former detainees of concentration camps who witnessed systematic killing. Random killing took place in the camps, but not enough to account for tens of thousand of dead. And, apart from the few well-known massacres nobody sees signs of missing villages, either.

The Red Cross has confirmed well under 20,000 fatalities on all sides. Extrapolating from that and from the observations of experienced investigators in Bosnia, its analysts estimate total fatalities at 20,000 to 30,000, with a small chance that they may exceed 35,000.

Analysts at the C.I A. and the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research put fatalities in the tens of thousands but hesitate to give a more precise range until the war is over. European military intelligence officers with extensive experience in Bosnia estimate fatalities in the mid tens of thousands. From these and other estimates by generally reliable relief workers, and given the arguments about the physical impossibility of high numbers, I arrived at the range of 25,000 to 60,000 fatalities.

In 1995, lacking the bodies, the charge of Genocide has worn thin. It seems to have almost become sensationalism for its own sake. Apart from any question of the number of fatalities, journalists have begun a hot little debate about how "objective" coverage of Bosnia has been, about whether it has tended to favor the Muslims. Several journalists with whom I spoke expressed the uneasy feeling that something was obviously wrong. In the words of the writer David Rieff, "Bosnia became our Spain," though not for political reasons, which is what he meant, but rather because too many journalists dreamed self-aggrandizing dreams of becoming Hemingway.

Who could do a reliable count? Probably not the State Department. Unfortunately, Secretary of Stae Warren Christopher folded under pressure from the interventionists and began-however furtively -- charging the Serbs with Genocide. Having thus taken sides, the State Department can hardly be expected to investigate reliably.

48 posted on 03/17/2006 11:42:51 AM PST by Proctor (http://www.historyofjihad.org)
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To: Proctor
I consider being called a liar to be a personal attack.

If I am mistaken, correct me. But stating an opinion based on the facts as I know them is not a lie. I know you have strong feelings.

"Blaming Yugoslavia for attacking Slovenia is like blaming the North for the South's assault on Ft. Sumter. "

To this day, there are Southern partisans who consider Major Anderson's move to Fort Sumter from Fort Moultrie to be an act of aggression.

"Second lie you tell is that the Serbs were carrying out a crusade. They were not. "

However, doesn't that seem to be the revisionist position? I will accept that Serbia was fighting out of fear of foreign domination. So were the Croats and Bosnians. I wish it were different. The issues I had were that the Bosnian Serbs in 1995 pulled some stunts that were definitely contrary to the laws of war. Shelling a city is not one of them. Taking the U.N. observers hostage was.

"Your George Soros funded script has no traction here. "

That, sir, is slander. I am not connected with Soros in any manner. I request an apology.
49 posted on 03/17/2006 11:57:29 AM PST by GAB-1955 (being dragged, kicking and screaming, into the Kingdom of Heaven....)
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To: GAB-1955
Sir/Madam,

Your lie is that you stated that the Serbs attacked Slovenia. That is a damnable lie.

Where I come from (the North) those who start wars are the ones that fire the first shots.

Will you now argue that America's trade embargo on Japan and moving Fleet HQ from San Fran to Pearl Harbor provoked Japan?

Serbs shelled cities that Muslims and Croats used to shelter their artillery? Not as bad as when Sherman burned down whole swaths of Georgia or when Dresden was made an open air oven.

Deal with the lie above - the death toll numbers and the fact that you said the Serbs attacked (and by attacked I mean shot first) Slovenia.

50 posted on 03/17/2006 12:09:11 PM PST by Proctor (http://www.historyofjihad.org)
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