Smoking Ban Moves Outdoors (CA)

LA Times ^ | March 18, 2006 | Bob Pool

[FairOpinion]

Calabasas makes it illegal to light up in public spaces, with fines up to $500. Some residents breathe easier, but others just fume.

As a pioneering public smoking ban went into effect Friday in Calabasas, enforcement came from a higher authority: Mother Nature.

A pouring rainstorm snuffed out renegade smokers' cigarettes and sent them scurrying for cover as security guards began issuing warnings at the town's main shopping center.

Calabasas, an upscale suburb perched on the western edge of the San Fernando Valley, was generating international attention for what appears to be the nation's first ban on smoking in all outdoor public spaces. Violators can be fined up to $500.

As the day wore on, smokers were playing a cat-and-mouse game with mall security. Cupping their cigarettes in their hands and hiding them under patio tables, they flipped them to the outdoor mall's damp sidewalks when guards approached.

[FairOpinion]

This is a follow up to an earlier article and thread:

Snuff Out Those Cigarettes in Calabasas (CA). Smoking Ban (Even Outdoors) Starts Today

Note: Public places does NOT mean only "government owned" places, it means any place where people are, including on PRIVATE property, such as malls, apartment buildings, etc. And they do mean, that you can't smoke OUTDOORS.

Text of Smoking Ban Ordinance

Excerpt:

Page 7:

Sec. 8.12.040 Prohibition of Smoking

(a) Public and Other Places Where Smoking Prohibited. Except as otherwise provided by this chapter or by state or federal law, smoking is prohibited everywhere in the city, including but not limited to:
(1) Public Places;
(2) Places of Employment;
(3) Multi-Unit Residence Common Areas;
(4) Enclosed and Unenclosed Places of Hotels, Businesses, Restaurants, and Bars, and other public accommodations.

[FairOpinion]

I would like to quote here the excellent summary by SittingYonder from the other thread, which is worth repeating:

Sitting Yonder: "The point is, however, it is not the place of the government to decide if people can or cannot smoke on private property. This isn't about smoking, it's about government over-extending its authority."

[xrp]

I'm from the Government and I'm here to help

[ErnBatavia]

Just to piss of Calabasas, some Indian tribe should open a casino there - complete with the inherent smoking setups they have.

[satchmodog9]

But, two guys walking around with their hands in each others back pockets is fine.

[FairOpinion]

And the government may actually allow you to smoke on your own property... IF you meet certain requirements, isn't that just so nice of them? (sarasm)

How many businesses are large enough to have outside areas at least 20 feet from walking areas?

"He noted that the city is trying to accommodate those who just must light up. The new ordinance allows property owners to apply to set up designated smoking areas outside businesses and offices. These must be at least 20 feet from entrances, walking paths or other areas where nonsmokers might be. So far, only two such areas exist, outside a Calabasas Road electronics firm and behind City Hall.

The new rules exempt residences, backyards, balconies and patios unless they are adjacent to common areas, laundry rooms or apartment complex walkways."

[Nathan Zachary]

gays performing lewd sexual acts in public is perfectly fine.

No doubt smoking dope doesn't raise an eyebrow either.

What a country.

[festus]

Another reason to not live in Kalifornia.

[small voice in the wilderness]

Today they take a deep breath and smell the smug.

[SheLion]

Calabasas, CA: Help Stop The Attack On Your Rights!!!

Help Stop The Attack On Your Rights!!!

The City of Calabasas in an over whelming attempt to stamp out what they feel is an unwanted part of their community has passed a law banning smoking from public places. Not only banning but making it a misdemeanor punishable by up to $1000 fine and/or six months in jail. That is not all if you witness a smoker in the act and don't report them you are guilty of aiding and abiding which holds the same punishment regardless of how you feel about smoking.

Calabasas using its own unique judgment has inacted a law that not only bans smoking but also bans your freedoms, freedoms of choice, the pursuit of happiness and other. Utilizing this law to attack and scapegoat a percentage of its population it deems unfit. Calabasas has chosen to treat smokers as a pariah much in the same way people viewed immigrants coming into this country. These people are not Terrorist they are not attacking or even harming those around you as some may say. If cigarette smoking was the reason behind this why did Calabasas simply ban the sale of tobacco and tobacco related products. They know they can't they feel if they attack the people and try to prove to people it is in their best interest. If Calabasas is so worried about the health and welfare of its people why do they still allow cars and big rigs into their town?

We ask that all people residence of Calabasas and those traveling in and around Calasbasas to stand up for your rights and the rights of your neighbors. Stand up and protest this unlawful and blatant attack on you civil liberties. Boycott Calabasas now! Don't shop in the city of Calabasas.
Drive a little further down the road shop in Augora, Hidden Hills, or Woodland Hills. If these politicians think they can be an isolated city where your freedoms mean nothing showing them that you will not stand for this type of injustice. In the coming days we will also be organizing peaceful protest but this boycott will be the loudest and most meaningful
way to show your disgust to a community who has no interest in protecting the rights of its people.

We as Americans have the duty to defend those who are being persecuted unjustly by those in power. This kind of McCarthyism will no longer be tolerated by the American people. A people whose beliefs are tolerance and justice for all.

Your Civil Liberties Are Under Attack !

More info:
Read
Read

You can email us at
drshocker@hotmail.com
and
sirgwain@hotmail.com

Read

PLEASE CLICK ON THIS GRAPHIC AND PRINT IT OUT TO TAPE ON YOUR SHIRT OR PURSE OR BRIEFCASE OR CAR OR DOG OR...

Small graphic to print out.

Larger graphic to print out.

[SheLion]

Attention all business owners suffering from a smoking ban.
Please fill out this form and submit it for a new web page
Ban Loss

[stopem]

But yet entering our country ILLEGALLY is perfectly okay!
Bringing in illegals drugs is perfectly okay.

Politicians gone nuts!

[EGPWS]

The game of smoking bans and collecting cigarette taxes at the same time is going to come to a head soon.

If smoking is considered illegal enough to ban everywhere in public,(public as defined 20 thousand different ways depending upon the topic of concern) then the revenue should be forgone and cigarettes should be banned also!

Just hold on to your britches you who insist that smoking should be banned, for eventually the bans will outnumber our freedoms and someday it will be dictated that only so many hours a day of sunshine will be allowed for health reasons and taxes will have to be collected to support the regulation of this allowance.

[FairOpinion]

This ordinance echoes around the world. I just found this editorial from New Zealand, where the author thinks it's a great idea and it should be extended to private homes.

EDITORIAL: Will we ban smoking in homes?

http://www.hbtoday.co.nz/localnews/storydisplay.cfm?storyid=3676773&thesection=localnews&thesubsection=&thesecondsubsection=

New Zealand is not that far behind, with a Levin bar owner this week fined $800 and ordered to pay costs totalling $920 after admitting four charges of allowing people to smoke on his premises.

Public health researchers here are also calling for smoke-free homes.

A study has found an "aggressive" smoke-free policy will ensure fewer people start the habit, as well as helping people to kick smoking.

"With the goal of making New Zealand's workplaces smoke-free now largely achieved, people's homes are one of the last frontiers in the battle to reduce second-hand smoke indoors," Dr George Thomson said.

[Nathan Zachary]

It's not a fence between mexico and the USA we need to build, it's a fence between the USA and Califorina that should be built. Then send all lefties to live there. Use the National Guard to make sure none can escape. Then let them govern themselves to their hearts content.
Withn a few years, they will vote free welfare for everyone, and quickly realize after their first welfare check that it's not worth the paper it's printed on.

Within a decade, Liberal communism will be dead, the survivors will become Republicans.

[EGPWS]

Politicians gone nuts!

Politicians showing their true colors as to why they are considered nuts is a better conveyance IMO.

[Nathan Zachary]

Auto makers should also refuse to build cars to meet California emmisions. Let them walk or ride bicycles, which manufacurers should mark "Not for sale in California" to protect themselves from lawsuits. Everything should be marked "not for sale in California" for that matter.

[sangoo]

Another reason to not live in Kalifornia.

I used to live by there.....you have no idea how good it felt to get out. It's truely another country.

[FlingWingFlyer]

Brought to you by the same anti-smoke Nazis who are always whining and crying about "Bush" taking away their freedom and liberties. Personally, I'd much rather have the Feds listening to my overseas phone calls than telling me that I can't smoke in public. But that's just me. I'm a American not a DemocRAT.

[festus]

The few times I've been there it was a nuthouse front to back.

Went out of the hotel and ran into an elvis impersonator juggling knives.

Another time was eating in a reasturant in a business district and this dude walks down the sidewalk in a caveman diaper with a bone in his scraggly beard.

Here in the midwest doing stuff like that is grounds for an a$$ whoopin. Out there its normal.

[dsc]

"Auto makers should also refuse to build cars to meet California emmisions."

I've been saying that for years. Now, though, the US auto makers have stupided themselves virtually into extinction, and don't have any leeway for such stands.

[dsc]

Every time I quit smoking, something like this happens and makes me want to start again.

[EGPWS]

"With the goal of making New Zealand's workplaces smoke-free now largely achieved, people's homes are one of the last frontiers in the battle to reduce second-hand smoke indoors," Dr George Thomson said.

One's freedoms taken away for one's own good.

Somehow I can't find reason to take comfort in such a mindset.....

Now it is already a mindset of some that one's abode is "public property" as shown in your appreciated reply.

I passed through the year "1984" with mindful contentment with little concern for happenstance only to find concern with 2006 equaling that of "1984". Hang on and review my reply, for I have to take a break.

Someone is "knocking on my door"....

Na, for my own good I'll just not answer it.

My point being, all in all if we as individuals are going to sit back and let a few take away our personal freedoms to the point of doing so when our personal freedoms are not a threat to the public, then what is the sense in living in a country that governs with Dogma based upon personal freedoms?

What are we as individuals striving to defend?

[mrs tiggywinkle]

*****The few times I've been there it was a nuthouse front to back. Went out of the hotel and ran into an elvis impersonator juggling knives. Another time was eating in a reasturant in a business district and this dude walks down the sidewalk in a caveman diaper with a bone in his scraggly beard.*****

I've lived here most of my life and have **never** seen what you've described. Ever.

[EGPWS]

Auto makers should also refuse to build cars to meet California emmisions. Let them walk or ride bicycles, which manufacurers should mark "Not for sale in California" to protect themselves from lawsuits. Everything should be marked "not for sale in California" for that matter.

If they did that then they would go broke from lack of production and a lack of want for productive people to want to live in California.

Oh, wait a minute.....This is a demise California is facing today isn't it?

[festus]

I've lived here most of my life and have **never** seen what you've described. Ever.

Ok so maybe there are some normal parts. I just haven't seen them I guess. One was in San Jose and the other in San Diego.

I'm pretty sure the elvis dude was part of some entertainment thing someone was trying to do somewhere.

But that dude in the caveman diaper and bone in his beard. He was all off on his own and that was the business/shopping district not some hippie hangout.

[A. Pole]

Do not worry, neither Jose nor Rosa will pay much attention to the silly prohibitions imposed by dying out WASPs.

[FlingWingFlyer]

Dittos on that! LOL! The only problem is, the anti-smoke Nazi DemocRATS have driven the cost of smokes so high that I had to quit. Either that or sell my house.

[sangoo]

...I've lived here most of my life and have **never** seen what you've described. Ever.

Well, maybe not those particular weirdos, but I'm sure some others. I was once in a restaurant in Van Nuys and a guy was sitting there in his bathrobe and one side of his face was shaved, and the other side was a full beard. We all have different stories.

[markomalley]

Gee, where are the anti-smoking Nazis on FR? They should be praising this move as a positive step!!!

/sarc

[A. Pole]

The only problem is, the anti-smoke Nazi DemocRATS have driven the cost of smokes so high that I had to quit. Either that or sell my house.

Roll you own. Or smoke pipe.

[mrs tiggywinkle]

It's important to remember that California is not comprised *only* of Hollywood and San Francisco. I live in the Central Valley and have *never* seen anything like what has been described.

[FairOpinion]

Problem is CA is the world's 6th or 7th largest economy.

[mugs99]

cigarettes should be banned also!

They will be. Tobacco will be added to the Controlled Substances Act in the near future. Tobacco smokers will be locked up alongside pot smokers.
.

[FairOpinion]

"Tobacco will be added to the Controlled Substances Act in the near future. Tobacco smokers will be locked up alongside pot smokers."


===

The they'll ban alcohol, even though we know how well that worked. Then comes banning bacon and eggs -- it's bad for you.

This reminded me of this absolutely great little skit about what the future will look like with all the gov. intrusion, posted by phil1750 on another thread, about a guy trying to order a pizza.

It's really great, worth viewing.


http://www.adcritic.com/interactive/view.php?id=5927

[Hardastarboard]

if you witness a smoker in the act and don't report them you are guilty of aiding and abiding which holds the same punishment regardless of how you feel about smoking.

WTF???? I have to turn in someone who's not harming me for a non-crime, or suffer a punishment that's near felony level? Geez, I had hoped we could stop liberalism without having to resort to violence. That hope has begun to dim.

[mugs99]

You're right. Alcohol is next on the list. Coffee will be there too. Coffee addiction will be "a new study" topic within a year.

Thanks for the link!
.

[Nathan Zachary]

"Problem is CA is the world's 6th or 7th largest economy."

They are working hard to correct that problem, aren't they... Soon it will be the poorest as well. It may be a large economy, but it's also deep in debt. Driving out business via stupid laws isn't going to make California a place worthwhile to invest or sell to if nobody can afford the product.

[ElkGroveDan]

The few times I've been there it was a nuthouse front to back. Went out of the hotel and ran into an elvis impersonator juggling knives. Another time was eating in a reasturant in a business district and this dude walks down the sidewalk in a caveman diaper with a bone in his scraggly beard. Here in the midwest doing stuff like that is grounds for an a$$ whoopin. Out there its normal.

Here in California telling whopper lies like that is grounds for an ass whoopin. If you witnessed stuff like that in Calabasas then you must have been on drugs.

[Hardastarboard]

Got a friend who saw a guy in Hollywood with a Mohawk haircut, dressed in cutoffs and combat boots (and nothing else), reading a Bible, riding on a skateboard being pulled by a pit bull. I can't imagine that anyone is clever enough to make up a story like that.

[FairOpinion]

"Driving out business via stupid laws isn't going to make California a place worthwhile to invest or sell to if nobody can afford the product."

===

I couldn't agree with you more. The stupid Dems are trying to kill the goose that lays the golden egg: chase out businesses, which employ people, that provide revenue. If all the "rich" leave, who is going to be left to pay for all the indigents?

[Drew68]

Brought to you by the same anti-smoke Nazis who are always whining and crying about "Bush" taking away their freedom and liberties.

Careful now. There are plenty of "Republicans" and "freedom-loving" posters on this forum who joyfully cheerlead any anti-smoking ordinance. Big government nannies can be found on both sides of the political spectrum.

[ElkGroveDan]

Got a friend who saw a guy in Hollywood with a Mohawk haircut, dressed in cutoffs and combat boots (and nothing else), reading a Bible, riding on a skateboard being pulled by a pit bull. I can't imagine that anyone is clever enough to make up a story like that.

I have traveled the country far and wide and spent weeks at a time in most major cities. I've seen freaks and weirdos in NYC, Chicago, New Orleans, Atlanta, Houston, Las Vegas, DC, and Miami to name a few. Someday I'll write about the crazies I saw in each one of them. You don't even want to hear about what I saw in the highway rest stops in Arkansas.

For 60 years people from those places have been streaming in to California for the opportunities, the weather and the overall way of life. I've had the chance to live in any number of different cities and rural towns over the years. I always come back to California though. There's a reason for it.

[FairOpinion]

This really is resounding around the world.

Just saw an article in the UK Telegraph.


Lights are going out all over town that bans smoking


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/03/18/wsmoke18.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/18/ixworld.html

"The people of Calabasas can no longer light up in the street, in parks, bus stops, by office entrances or even on their own balcony if it overlooks communal areas such as swimming pools.

The ban underlines California's anti-smoking zeal. In the 1990s it outlawed cigarettes in bars, restaurants and offices, a move that was followed last month in Britain when MPs voted for a ban in all pubs, restaurants, private clubs and most workplaces by next year.

The Calabasas ordinance also follows January's landmark decision by the California Air Resources Board to classify second-hand tobacco smoke as a "toxic air contaminant".

But the new rule takes the crackdown to extremes that some critics see as draconian and infringing civil liberties.

The ban is supported by the American Cancer Society and the Heart Association and Lung Association."

====

Maybe people should write to the American Cancer Society and the Heart and Lung Associations ( see above) and let them know that you will no longer donate to them, if they support such infringements on people's personal liberties. They should stick to finding cures for the diseases.

[Nathan Zachary]

The loony left will just keep making the remaining "rich" pay more and more in order to live in their communist utopia.

When things come crashing down, they won't blame themselves, they'll blame the rest of the world, because it will be the economic slowdown of the rest of the world that will cause California to take even more drastic measure to keep afloat. They'll just tax more in hopes of better days. Socialism is a cancer that keeps on spreading. The only way to stop it is to cut it out, and we know that won't happen. Already they are 'streamlining' things like pre school- socialist daycare for all, which will work if EVERYONE participates- the same old communist speech.
SO how will preschool daycare work? Working people pay and are forced to take their kids there, if they don't they pay anyways depending on income. Only the poor, uneployed, or those on welfare can send their kids to their entitled daycare, giving their welfare moms the whole day to lay on the couch and watch daytime TV.

[FairOpinion]

"I've had the chance to live in any number of different cities and rural towns over the years. I always come back to California though. There's a reason for it."


===

Absolutely.

There are strange people everywhere, not to mention criminals. But you don't make judgment about an entire state, because of seeing one strange person somewhere.

But everything considered California is a great place to live. You can't beat the climate and the general atmosphere. I wish more conservatives would move here to counter the liberals, instead of fleeing.

[Mancolicani]

There will come a time (or actually it's upon us) when those living in primitive countries or even dictatorships will be freer than the Americans.

Everything will be hyperlegislated in the USA. Call somebody the wrong name, light up a cig, forget to buckle up... and you're in trouble. Formally you'll have all the rights you can shake a stick at, but as for the actual living (cursin', spittin', elbowin') space around you, it'll be nothing compared to those under harsh regimes.

Today, in modern countries, when a road needs to be built, they measure the "ecological impact"... I think something similar should be done for Laws that mean well (they all mean well, don't they), but that more and more make us feel like animals in a zoo.

We're hyper-legislated.

A few months back, here in Italy, a man was arrested for calling a Moroccan: "Ehi Marocco!"

In better days that would've been a type of slight that builds comaraderie. It was like kids playing, inventing their own rules and eventually finding common ground.

If "Marocco" was caught sipping a beer during Ramadam, undoubtedly he'd be instantly nicknamed "Ramadam". Today that would be some sort of religious offense. According to Clause 3, comma2 of Article forty-seven... bla-bla-bla!

Anyway, I can't see why a cig out in the open air is any worse than a SUV spewing out exhaust or a 747 flying overhead. Maybe soon govt. agents will come to make sure we're getting enough exercise and drinking enough water.

Bah!

[FairOpinion]

And to think people came to America to be free...

I just read in another article, that smoking outdoors, can even be a CRIMINAL OFFENSE!

"Smoking scofflaws face warnings, fines of up to $500 for a recidivist with multiple offenses, and misdemeanor charges."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/03/18/MNGU7HQGCO1.DTL

I never understood, why people aren't incensed about invasion of their privacy by the government, when they do things like this, when they have laws invading your bathroom: what kind of toilet and showerheads you are allowed to install in your own home ("water saving" shower heads and toilets), but scream to high heavens about common sense measures, such as listening in to conversations of terrorists.

[Nathan Zachary]

"They should stick to finding cures for the diseases."

Haven't you realized yet that these places aren't looking for cures? They are looking for ways to manage diseases so you have to buy their drugs to stay alive. A cure would put them out of business. There are already cures for these things. Eat properly. Understand which foods are required for your organs to function properly. Smoking doesn't cause cancer, it only weakens your system so cancers can then take hold. Just as many people who never smoked a day in their lives get cancers, and lung cancer. I'm sure that diesel bus spewing it's exaust at you when it pulls away from the curb causes more illnesses than tobacco smoke. Industrial pollutants are everywhere, the air and water is full of toxins which come from the earth itself. Blaming everything of cigarette smoke is nothing but a lie, a scapegoat for those who want to take away all your freedoms tell everyone how to live. Why are kids fat these days? Because they aren't allowed to do anything!

[Madame Dufarge]

Just clicked on the skit.

I wish it were satire.....