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Ethanol: A Tragedy in 3 Acts
Business Week Online ^ | Thursday April 27 2006 | Ed Wallace

Posted on 04/27/2006 10:45:52 AM PDT by Brian Allen

Amid the current panic about gas prices many people are embracing ethanol. But that's not such a good idea

During the comment period for the RFG (reformulated gas) program, supporters of ethanol had argued that the volatile organic compound (VOC) emission standards in the program -- 42 U. S. C. 7545 (k) (3) (B) (i) -- would preclude the use of ethanol in RFG because adding ethanol to gasoline increases its volatility and raises VOC emissions, especially in the summertime.

Background The American Petroleum Institute v. the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency [Docket #94-1502 (Heard by the U. S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit and decided on April 28, 1995)]

If there were ever a time when the truth in advertising standards should be put back into place, it's now -- during the current (third) attempt to convince the public that the massive use of corn-derived ethanol in our gasoline supply will alleviate our need for foreign oil. Ultimately, the answer to just one question determines ethanol's actual usefulness as a gasoline extender: "If the government hadn't mandated this product, would it survive in a free market?" Doubtful -- but the misinformation superhighway has been rerouted to convince the public its energy salvation is at hand ....

(Excerpt) Read more at businessweek.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Front Page News; Government; Politics/Elections; Technical
KEYWORDS: communizedfarming; corruption; crime; energy; ethanol; gasoline; oil; votebuying
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To: Ditto

I'd say turn the New Orleans 9th ward into sugar cane fields.
_______________________________________________________

There you go! How about the whole darned area?


41 posted on 04/27/2006 1:08:07 PM PDT by eleni121 ('Thou hast conquered, O Galilean!' (Julian the Apostate))
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To: Mamzelle
I still think we ought to devote some research resources to this.

The private sector is already doing extensive research and has products on the market now. This fact goes totally unnoticed by the Democrats, which is hilarious.
42 posted on 04/27/2006 1:10:50 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Brian Allen

Phase out gasoline engines, diesels are much more efficent and can power any automobile made. A winter grade and a summer grade works all over the country.

The diesel is easier to be made to run cleaner than a gas burner. The diesel engine lasts 4 to 5 times longer.

The use of "oil fuels" is not going away any time soon, we have to make the most of what can be refined!


43 posted on 04/27/2006 1:12:31 PM PDT by tiger63
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To: P-40
That it's inefficient and still falls far short of what we need and hope for is not surprising. But we have some amazing engineers in this country. I'm not surprised it's not working now--but I won't be surprised if there're technical breakthroughs that might make it useful in the future.

I'm also hopeful about other alternatives. The US has made harder things happen--and the idea of seeing the terrorist world turned back into farming sand is a vision to work for.

44 posted on 04/27/2006 1:14:54 PM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: eleni121; Myrddin

The term used by agriculturalists is Crop Consumptive Use. For Myrddin's area in Idaho (see post #29) the comparison between crops can be found here:

http://www.kimberly.uidaho.edu/water/appndxet/index.shtml

In Idaho, alfalfa hay requires 3.12 ft. of water, sugar beets 2.81, and potatoes 2.27 ft. Other areas of the country have different requirements because rainfall and temperature play a part. In general, the hotter the area, the more water is required for the crop. The drier the area, the more supplemental water must be applied.

So if you are going to grow a crop for this purpose, you should grow it in an area that has plenty of natural water that is replenished seasonally or annually.

Do a Google under "crop consumptive use" for publications in other areas of the country.


45 posted on 04/27/2006 1:20:49 PM PDT by CedarDave (DemocRATs- the CULTURE OF TREASON! If it wasn't for double standards, democrats would have NONE)
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To: Mamzelle
I'm not surprised it's not working now

It's working now, no question about that. It would not surprise me if someone figures out a better way to do it, and soon. There is a lot of money moving into biofuels, tons of it, and anyone that can chisle a tiny fraction for himself by coming up with an innovation will be rich indeed.
46 posted on 04/27/2006 1:25:13 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Ditto
In Idaho, its Simplot


47 posted on 04/27/2006 1:25:34 PM PDT by CedarDave (DemocRATs- the CULTURE OF TREASON! If it wasn't for double standards, democrats would have NONE)
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To: All

Not trying to rain on the ethanol hate parade hear...I would love to be able to proceed with drilling on our shores and wherever it is available on our country. Realistically, I don't see it happening. You know our house/senate is not going to touch that issue with a 100 foot poll. Again, I don't think the intent is to completely turn our country into a 100% ethanol economy. I would assume it is strictly to supplement and reduce the demand from the middle east or other trouble spots. I would gladly choose the lesser of two evils (Conagra, ADM, corn lobby) than pay the idiots that is trying to chop my head off....The argument of ethanol being less efficient goes by the wayside whenever (only if...)ethanol cost per gallon drops down to and equivalent price per gallon of gas....assume 25-30% miles per gallon reduction vs. gasoline). With gasoline being $3.00/gallon, ethanol could compete at $2.10/gallon. Yes...ethanol is not that cheap yet....yet...Improved economies of scale, research into production optimization may eventually meet that goal.
Yes...I would rather us stick with oil for the time being, but not being prepared for, or researching alternative fuels for the long run would be completely irresponsible - more so than the border issue which is currently the hot topic of the day...


48 posted on 04/27/2006 1:29:53 PM PDT by Maringa
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To: defenderSD

"Don't forget the energy used to transport the ethanol to blending plants, because it can't be mixed in at large refineries and shipped through pipelines as blended gas. This looks like a completely uneconomical mess to me."

Yes we are a ways off from a viable solution but even at 3.00 a gallon we are better going this route then getting tangled up in the ME every time some crazy dictator pops up. Also, their is a huge benefit to employ high and low level tech employees, the farming industry would boom and we would take advantage of a hundreds of millions of acres of unused land. Ethanol is really only the solution to automobiles, our trucking fleet can run on diesel from soy, easily growable in the south en masse. It's going to take years and we had better get our asses in gear.


49 posted on 04/27/2006 1:36:37 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: iThinkBig

Just an observation of what I saw in Brazil...There are many local ethanol refineries spread throughout the country side. They are small compact units. I realize it is sugar cane, but same thing could apply here. Transportation costs would reduce as more refineries are built. It also reduces the exposure to terrorist attacks on one large refinery concentration such as Houston, TX. It also reduces the exposure to weather related catastrophies (like hurricanes, etc...)


50 posted on 04/27/2006 1:43:02 PM PDT by Maringa
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To: CougarGA7

"I think the most interesting thing I've seen on Ethonol was in an article posted here yesterday. In order to make enough ethonol to meet America's current demand for gasoline would require us to uses 71% of our farm land to grow the fuel."

Farm land can stay framland growing produce. Hundreds of millions of unused acres of switch grass can be used for ethanol, and it grows naturally in the Midwest. Cut all of it down and you'll have a brand new crop the next year without doing diddly. However, I doubt we will be able to fully supplant ME oil entirely from either switchgrass or corn, but if we produce 30% ethanol and 30% biodiesel our market demand would be so low oil prices would drop massively. We are still the #1 oil consumer in the world, we just have very little market leverage right now because demand is so high.


51 posted on 04/27/2006 1:45:13 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: Maringa

"Just an observation of what I saw in Brazil...There are many local ethanol refineries spread throughout the country side. They are small compact units. I realize it is sugar cane, but same thing could apply here. Transportation costs would reduce as more refineries are built. It also reduces the exposure to terrorist attacks on one large refinery concentration such as Houston, TX. It also reduces the exposure to weather related catastrophies (like hurricanes, etc...)"

Excellent points.


52 posted on 04/27/2006 1:50:12 PM PDT by iThinkBig
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To: iThinkBig
It's going to take years and we had better get our asses in gear.

Every time someone like Bill Gates invests tens of millions into the biofuels market that time frame shrinks; every time some Hollywood Idiot opens his mouth that time frame increases...dramatically. Lucky for us, the biofuels market is seeing rapid growth under George Bush...so Hollywood has kept pretty silent.
53 posted on 04/27/2006 2:01:09 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: CedarDave

Hadn't considered the groundwater angle.

And isn't corn grown with petroleum-based fertilizer? If corn requires oil to grow, then how does it solve the oil problem?

I suppose the answer is that most of the energy in corn comes not from the fertilizer but from the sun. But if that's the case, then isn't a corn field just a giant solar panel?

And if this is the case, then why not just build acres of solar panels? After all, a field of solar panels would require no oil-based fertilizer and would place no strain on the aquifers.

These questions seem obvious, so they must have easy answers. Maybe plants are more efficient at converting solar energy into usable power. And no doubt acres of solar panels would cost a fortune to manufacture. In a sense, a cornfield manufactures itself.


54 posted on 04/27/2006 2:15:36 PM PDT by Yardstick
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To: Maringa
Brazil only uses biodesiel for 20% of their fuel, and someone said they have about a 10,000 dollar tax on cars per year. It would take almost all our farmland in the US to convert to Biodeseil. Its not worth it.

Popular science claimed at 10 cents a KWatt*hour an electric car only costs 2 cents a mile for propulsion. So I say we fund the hell out of batteries and capacitor research and build dozens of new nuclear power plants. 100% clean fuel, no impact on the environment, and cheap.
55 posted on 04/27/2006 2:16:43 PM PDT by RHINO369 (It depends what the meaning of is is)
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To: immigration lady
If we could make the fuel from sugar cane, well, that would be different...

Arrhhhh....Sure 'n' it would be matey.
Then we could run the world on rum!

Fifteen men on a dead man's chest!
Yoho ho and a bottle of rum!


56 posted on 04/27/2006 2:21:33 PM PDT by Bloody Sam Roberts (I can't complain...but sometimes I still do.)
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To: RHINO369
Brazil only uses biodesiel for 20% of their fuel, and someone said they have about a 10,000 dollar tax on cars per year.

Brazil uses ethanol. And there are few Brazilians that could afford a ten thousand dollar tax.
57 posted on 04/27/2006 2:22:43 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Yardstick
Maybe plants are more efficient at converting solar energy into usable power.

Plants can take solar energy and convert it to a storable medium very efficiently. We can't quite do the same yet.
58 posted on 04/27/2006 2:25:12 PM PDT by P-40 (http://www.590klbj.com/forum/index.php?referrerid=1854)
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To: Brian Allen

ping for later


59 posted on 04/27/2006 2:25:37 PM PDT by Abcdefg
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To: rellimpank

When you're just killing time, Google on "biodiesel retailers map" and see if you don't think this fuel is popular in farm country.


60 posted on 04/27/2006 2:29:44 PM PDT by Mr. Lucky
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