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Navy Chaplain May Face Court-Martial For Praying
KNBC, Los Angelas ^ | 4:39 am PDT May 4, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 05/04/2006 9:14:42 AM PDT by DesScorp

NORFOLK, Va. -- A chaplain stationed at Naval Station Norfolk said he could face court-martial for praying in uniform outside the White House.

Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt said he prayed at a March 30 protest opposing Department of Defense rules forbidding military chaplains from invoking the name of Jesus Christ.

He's accused of violating an order not to appear in uniform at news conferences in support of personal or religious issues.

The issue seems to hinge on whether his praying at the event was permissible participation at a bona fide religious service. Klingenschmitt is rejecting non-judicial punishment in favor of trial by court-martial.

In addition, he's filing a complaint against the Navy claiming the threat of punishment against him amounts to religious harassment and he's appealing to the White House to end what he claims are the military's attempts to take reprisals against a whistle-blower.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbc4.tv ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: chaplain; christians; courtmartial; klingenschmitt; norfolk; prayer; usn
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To: trashcanbred

But the problem with non-secratarian prayer is that it means nothing. And that's the problem I have with the Chaplain service. It's more like a bunch of guys that want to be in the service, but don't really believe in anything.

By their very nature a minister of God (whatever faith) should want to win souls. If they don't what's the point in their becoming a minister(priest, rabbi, etc..)


21 posted on 05/04/2006 9:33:23 AM PDT by for-q-clinton (If at first you don't succeed keep on sucking until you do succeed)
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

Blountley...you don't appear at any press conference---of post/base---wearing your uniform. Its an absolute reg and defined for all services. In the early 80s...at Barksdale AFB in Lousiana...two guys from the base...both NCO's appeared at some rally downtown...pictures taken...in paper the next day...and their commanders called both in. They both got punishment and were recited the regulations in full to ensure they knew what they had done wrong. Again...it was a religious episode...which both gentlemen thought they were in the right...and they were ABSOLUTELY wrong.

A man who wears a military uniform...is a professional. You cannot allow the uniform to be misused. It'd be the same if some fool airmen showed up at a pro-life rally...some sailors showed up at a anti-gay rally...or some marines showed up at some pro-NRA rally. In civilian clothing...no one is going to say much. But in uniform....its just plain wrong.


22 posted on 05/04/2006 9:33:52 AM PDT by pepsionice
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To: Nabber

"What I do find to be incredible is that they have told chaplains not to proselytize on duty."

Why would you find that to be incredible? I'm not sure it's the government's responsibility to proselytize a particular religious belief system. Matter of fact, it's probably a Constitutional violation.

Chaplains are there for counselling and support at the behest of servicemembers. Nothing more.


23 posted on 05/04/2006 9:35:39 AM PDT by L98Fiero (I'm worth a million in prizes.)
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To: Borges

Not exactly.

You have to follow your chain of command.

You don't like your immediate supervisor? Tell'em. Then tell THEIR supervisor. As long as you follow your chain of command, and have documentation to back you up, you'll only be labeled a troublemaker and not a malcontent.


24 posted on 05/04/2006 9:37:24 AM PDT by Ro_Thunder ("Other than ending SLAVERY, FASCISM, NAZISM and COMMUNISM, war has never solved anything")
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To: cryptical

A prayer is essentially religious in character. Forbid the prayer or rescind this order.


25 posted on 05/04/2006 9:38:23 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: DesScorp

It sounds like a JAG office policy. Military JAG's are loaded with ACLU types even in Iraq. The Bush DOD has failed to clean out the clintonista's in this area as well as most other critical areas of government. That's the primary reason we find JAG's bringing charges against combat troops for killing terrorists. For the skeptics who may challenge this statement, check with any young military lawyer with JAG experience.


26 posted on 05/04/2006 9:40:17 AM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: BeHoldAPaleHorse

This is why I never read the news any longer. I make up crap and then tell my friends as if it's true.

Think I'll become a journalist.


27 posted on 05/04/2006 9:41:31 AM PDT by Fighting Irish
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To: for-q-clinton

Believe it or not, but no priest is going to offer a prayer to Mary at a mixed gathering. Did you know that at mass,she is mentioned only twice. Once in ther Nicene Creed, and later as chief among the saints. As for Allah, that is simply the Arab word for God.


28 posted on 05/04/2006 9:43:01 AM PDT by RobbyS ( CHIRHO)
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To: DesScorp
You know, I'm really getting sick and tired of this crap. We have millions of illegals in the streets, and God knows all the other horrors out there and this military officer is afraid of charges being brought because he's praying. These know-it-all big shots in the DOD should get out the Old Testament. God will not honor those who do not honor Him. I wouldn't want to go into battle without Him, would you?
29 posted on 05/04/2006 9:44:00 AM PDT by PrepareToLeave
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To: cryptical
"Not all that unreasonable if you think about it, a chaplain has to minister to all faiths not just their own denomination."

Ummm, since when? When I was in, Catholics got Priests, Jews got Rabbis, Protestants got Prod Ministers, etc. If your faith didn't have a member in the Chaplain Corps at your command, they let lay servicemembers run the services. I never had a Rabbi or an Imam involved in one of my services. I can understand the principle at a change of command, but I never saw a chaplain that ministered to "all faiths".
30 posted on 05/04/2006 9:46:45 AM PDT by DesScorp
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To: DesScorp

Unfortunately this President has not yet purged our military of the Clintonistas appointed during the Clinton administration to practice "social engineering." They had a "captive" audience and a large budget to play with. ...very sad state of affairs and more evidence that liberalism is a mental disorder.


31 posted on 05/04/2006 9:47:47 AM PDT by olezip
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To: L98Fiero
Matter of fact, it's probably a Constitutional violation.

Better read your Constitution pal. It contains NO prohibition against prosylitizing. Nor does it contain words requiring separation of church and state. It DOES contain words prohibiting government interferance in the practice of religion.

32 posted on 05/04/2006 9:47:57 AM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: DesScorp
Absolute Madness: Navy Chaplain on trial for Praying

Please do not change headlines.

33 posted on 05/04/2006 9:54:11 AM PDT by Admin Moderator
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To: for-q-clinton
But the problem with non-secratarian prayer is that it means nothing. And that's the problem I have with the Chaplain service. It's more like a bunch of guys that want to be in the service, but don't really believe in anything. By their very nature a minister of God (whatever faith) should want to win souls. If they don't what's the point in their becoming a minister(priest, rabbi, etc..)

In the case I mention, where a Chaplain invoked Jesus Christ's name to some of the Jewish cadets, do you think that was the right thing to do? If so don't we close the military off to other religious beliefs? Because if I was a Jew, I would not join if I thought you were going to try and convert me.

I might be wrong so please correct me if I am but the Chaplain corp's goals are not to win souls but to council those of various religious backgrounds, right? That's what it says on their web site(s).

34 posted on 05/04/2006 9:54:42 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
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To: DesScorp
A chaplain in the military busted, persecuted and prosecuted for praying?

Are chaplains now also subject to "Don't ask, don't tell"?

Beam me up, Scotty...

35 posted on 05/04/2006 9:58:02 AM PDT by Publius6961 (Multiculturalism is the white flag of a dying country)
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To: Nabber
What I do find to be incredible is that they have told chaplains not to proselytize on duty.

I asked this in another post but I will ask you as well. Doesn't that "close the door" on other religious beliefs? If I am a Jew and I think that by entering the military a Chaplain is going to attempt to convert me, is that right? Or better yet, if I am a Catholic and a "Scientology" chaplain attempts it.

36 posted on 05/04/2006 10:07:40 AM PDT by trashcanbred (Anti-social and anti-socialist)
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To: DesScorp

If he is its rightly so.. its one thing to protest a policy, its another to do it in uniform at a press conference... he violated rules, no different than if an active duty person showed up in full uniform at a pro abortion rally.

This sort of activity is clearly against the rules.


37 posted on 05/04/2006 10:10:37 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: Publius6961

He's not busted for praying, hes being busted because he sowed up in uniform at a political event to protest policy.. this is not allowed. You can't do this if you are active duty and in uniform, period...


38 posted on 05/04/2006 10:11:54 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: DesScorp

Believe your grandma.


39 posted on 05/04/2006 10:12:43 AM PDT by The Ghost of FReepers Past (Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light..... Isaiah 5:20)
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To: DesScorp
Navy Chaplain May Face Court-Martial For Praying

He's accused of violating an order not to appear in uniform at news conferences

Today's big news is that the Los Angeles office of NBC is staffed by liars that know how to fire up the ain't-it-awful crowd at the freerepublic.

[yawn]

40 posted on 05/04/2006 10:18:40 AM PDT by expat_panama
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