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Navy Chaplain May Face Court-Martial For Praying
KNBC, Los Angelas ^ | 4:39 am PDT May 4, 2006 | Associated Press

Posted on 05/04/2006 9:14:42 AM PDT by DesScorp

NORFOLK, Va. -- A chaplain stationed at Naval Station Norfolk said he could face court-martial for praying in uniform outside the White House.

Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt said he prayed at a March 30 protest opposing Department of Defense rules forbidding military chaplains from invoking the name of Jesus Christ.

He's accused of violating an order not to appear in uniform at news conferences in support of personal or religious issues.

The issue seems to hinge on whether his praying at the event was permissible participation at a bona fide religious service. Klingenschmitt is rejecting non-judicial punishment in favor of trial by court-martial.

In addition, he's filing a complaint against the Navy claiming the threat of punishment against him amounts to religious harassment and he's appealing to the White House to end what he claims are the military's attempts to take reprisals against a whistle-blower.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbc4.tv ...


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: chaplain; christians; courtmartial; klingenschmitt; norfolk; prayer; usn
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To: kimosabe31

My point was that presidents don't get elected then hire their own personal generals from outside the military. You know, like appointing a cabinet member. The generals have served in the military for decades before they are selected for different commands based on their career paths and areas of expertise.


61 posted on 05/04/2006 11:14:13 AM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: kimosabe31
"However the military carried out those policies."

As it should. The president is commander in chief of the military. The military carried out his orders because of his position not because he was a democrat.

62 posted on 05/04/2006 11:19:20 AM PDT by blaquebyrd
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To: RetiredArmy
Kinda like the arm-chair generals lately huh? They may not have actually been in uniform, but everyone was calling them "GENERAL" so and so, and everyone KNEW they were military and GENERALS.

They were retired just like you and once out of uniform are free to express their opinion as you also express your opinion. Before your retirement how many direct orders did you disobey?

63 posted on 05/04/2006 11:33:36 AM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: kimosabe31

"It DOES contain words prohibiting government interferance in the practice of religion."

Which prosylitizing is. The government cannot promote a particular set of religious beliefs. It CAN accomodate the religious beliefs and needs of it's citizens, by providing government-paid chaplians, for example. Those government-paid chaplains prosylitizing IS government interference in the practice of religion. Because some may construe it as positive interferrence makes it no less an interferrence and not constitutional, IMO.


64 posted on 05/04/2006 11:37:59 AM PDT by L98Fiero (I'm worth a million in prizes.)
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To: DesScorp

It's against the UCMJ to appear at political rally or protest event in uniform. This chaplain had every right to be there and pray, so long as he did so in civvies.


65 posted on 05/04/2006 11:40:26 AM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Liberal Classic

Not just in civvies...He must do so as John Q. Public not as LT John Q. Public USN.


66 posted on 05/04/2006 12:09:31 PM PDT by Wristpin ("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: jec41

I repeat the last thing I said. Generals, like the current chief of staff, get called back. Enlisted are highly unlikely to get called back unless a major shortage in the time of war. Generals mouths open draw much more attention to that of NCO's who express the same. I seriously doubt if I openly disagreeded with Bush or the administration or Rumsfeld, that I would draw a crowd. Generals however draw major MSM coverages. As for disobeying lawful orders, if lawful, I never disobeyed one. Do you know what the difference is? If not, read the UCMJ.


67 posted on 05/04/2006 12:13:51 PM PDT by RetiredArmy (Politicians and the U.S. Government are liars, cheats and thieves, in it for their own gain.)
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To: pgkdan

Proof?You are entitled to your opine--but if you want others
to believe you you need offer more than personal opine.Seem torecall there are several Navy Chaplains involved in legal
action claiming discrimination because they are evangelical
Christians?


68 posted on 05/04/2006 12:35:29 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: Publius6961

Seem to recall one of the complaints by Lt.K. was that the
Navy required Chaplains provide sailors to attend a Fleet week service at a church known to preach the gay agenda.


69 posted on 05/04/2006 12:41:49 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: for-q-clinton

The chaplain ought be the one to determine how he/she/it will pray -and to whom. Those in attendence can accept
or respectfully absent themselves.If a chaplain is asked
to invoke God's blessings at any event-the Chaplain ought be allowed follow his religious tradition.


70 posted on 05/04/2006 12:48:08 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: kimosabe31

Does Wesley Clark have any merits left he can claim honorable? Seem to recall he was SNAFU as a NATO Commander.


71 posted on 05/04/2006 12:53:28 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: Wristpin

I stand corrected. Thank you.


72 posted on 05/04/2006 12:55:44 PM PDT by Liberal Classic (No better friend, no worse enemy. Semper Fi.)
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To: Wristpin

So how did that Senator from Mass. who served in Vietnam
get away with the crap he pulled while carried as a Naval
Officer? The communist draft dodger uniform I recall seeing
quick John wearing were partial uniforms and to this day he has not been held accountable for his TREASON.


73 posted on 05/04/2006 12:57:38 PM PDT by StonyBurk
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To: RetiredArmy
Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt said he prayed at a March 30 protest opposing Department of Defense rules forbidding military chaplains from invoking the name of Jesus Christ. He's accused of violating an order not to appear in uniform at news conferences in support of personal or religious issues.

I think I can read, he was given a order, he chose to disobey it. Regardless of whether a officer can be recalled as long as he is a civilian he has the right to free speech. Servicemen can always attend a religious service of their choosing. How would you like a Imam or atheist dressed in their military uniform protesting in front of the white house and screaming Allah or God is for idiots. He has a military chapel and can pray or convert as he pleases. If he is insistent on violating regs. of the Navy and and settled law concerning religion he needs to find other employment. How many other chaplains choose to disobey the order.

74 posted on 05/04/2006 1:00:23 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: StonyBurk

He wasn't on active duty at the time...Theoretically, he could have been charged but we both know the repubs don't have the stomach for that kind of thing.


75 posted on 05/04/2006 1:05:08 PM PDT by Wristpin ("The Yankees announce plan to buy every player in Baseball....")
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To: StonyBurk
Does Wesley Clark have any merits left he can claim honorable?

None that I recall. I believe his last feat of noteriety, which was probably meritorious in the eyes of some, was an appearance in 2004 as a primary candidate on the cover of some "queer boy" magazine the name of which I can't remember.

76 posted on 05/04/2006 1:11:54 PM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: blaquebyrd
My point was that presidents don't get elected then hire their own personal generals from outside the military.

Good point but the POTUS certainly reviews the list of candidates for elevation to General Officer rank and can endorse or exercise veto power over the list that goes to capitol hill. I think you'll agree that the clintonistas micromanaged everything including the General Officer candidate list as opposed to Bush who seems to ride in whatever direction the s#!t is floating with regard to military personnel matters. Either that or he's a damn poor judge of character.

77 posted on 05/04/2006 1:25:54 PM PDT by kimosabe31
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To: All

Navy Chaplain Punished for Talking about Jesus Christ


CBN.com – Lieutenant Gordon Klingenschmitt was chaplain on the cruiser USS Anzio, based in Norfolk, Virginia, before he said he was transferred ashore and given a negative job recommendation because of religious disagreements.

LEE WEBB: The U.S. Navy is investigating a chaplain's allegation that he was punished for theological disagreements with his superior officers. Lieutenant Gordon Klingenschmitt says he was transferred ashore and given a negative job evaluation. I spoke with Chaplain Klingenschmitt on our nightly news program CBN NewsWatch, and I asked him if he had ever been disciplined for the content of any of his sermons.

LIEUTENANT GORDON KLINGENSCHMITT: I preached an evangelical sermon at an optionally attended service in the base chapel. It was advertised as a Christian memorial service that honored the faith of one of my deceased sailors, who was a member of my flock. In that sermon I said, you must be born again. I said Jesus Christ is the way to Heaven. And two senior chaplains advised my commanding officer to discipline me for that. They said, you can’t say that in the base chapel because it is not inclusive and might offend people. Well, they are enforcing Harvard Seminary’s Unitarian Universalist’s beliefs against my bishop's beliefs.

WEBB: You mentioned that, because you believe that the problem exists before chaplains even get to the fleet, that it happens in the Navy's chaplaincy program at Harvard? Is that what you’re saying?

KLINGENSCHMITT: Yes. Well, the Naval Chaplain School teaches the lectures on pluralism at the chaplain school, and they actually refer to Harvard Seminary’s model as the official government model. They give government endorsement to that denomination over all other denominations. In fact, they have an exercise there that you are not supposed to pray in Jesus' name. They have clipboards and evaluators who evaluate your prayers, and they praise you if you pray just to God. But if you pray in Jesus’ name, they counsel you. In fact, the chaplain school director spoke with my commanding officer and said that I was an immature chaplain. And my commanding officer used that recommendation as grounds to remove me from active duty.

WEBB: What happens next? Are you going to file legal action?

KLINGENSCHMITT: I have not yet filed any lawsuits. I am just asking for a simple apology and let them move on with their career and let me move on with my career. But if they don't want to apologize, I will have to consider other options.

WEBB: Do you think that it has been worth all of the trouble to be a chaplain? Would you rather just be a pastor in a local church somewhere?

KLINGENSCHMITT: I love the Navy and want to stay in the Navy, and serve sailors. I have given my life to the sailors. I hope that the senior leaders will let me do that. Over 60 chaplains filed a class action lawsuit citing religious discriminations problems just like this. In every instance, the Navy inspector general went in and found nothing wrong. Well, I don’t see that there’s nothing wrong. I see there is a widespread problem, and a lot of chaplains have complained, and we need congressional oversight.

WEBB: The Navy is looking into the allegations. A spokesman said if there is any substance to them, the legal process will take its course


78 posted on 05/04/2006 1:34:20 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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To: VoiceOfBruck

DOD mentioned, thought you might be interested.


79 posted on 05/04/2006 1:40:13 PM PDT by Zechariah_8_13 (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point.)
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To: jec41; All




Navy Probes Religious Discrimination Claim
By MATT KELLEY, Associated Press Writer

Saturday, April 30, 2005


Printable Version
Email This Article




(04-30) 14:31 PDT WASHINGTON (AP) --


The Navy is investigating a chaplain's allegations he was punished for theological disagreements with superior officers, including his objections to requiring sailors to participate in services at a church that accepts homosexuality.


Lt. Gordon Klingenschmitt says he was transferred ashore and given a negative job recommendation because of the religious disagreements.


Other actions cited in Klingenschmitt's personnel records include his advocacy for a Jewish sailor who wanted kosher meals and his preaching of sermons that some sailors viewed as proselytizing and intolerant.


"I'm shocked that senior chaplains would force their faith on sailors and on me," said Klingenschmitt, who was chaplain on the cruiser USS Anzio, based in Norfolk, Va.


The Navy began an inspector general investigation Wednesday into Klingenschmitt's allegations, said Lt. Cmdr. Charles Owens, a spokesman for Naval Surface Forces Atlantic.


"Anything he's alleged will be investigated," Owens said Thursday. "If there's any substance to it, the legal process will take its course."


Klingenschmitt became a priest in the Evangelical Episcopal Church after spending 11 years as an Air Force officer. He said he transferred to the Navy and took a demotion from major to lieutenant to become a military chaplain.


Other evangelical Protestant chaplains in the Navy have complained about religious discrimination. A group of evangelical chaplains is suing the Navy in federal court, saying they were passed over for promotions in favor of Roman Catholic or mainline Protestant chaplains and punished when they complained.


One of Klingenschmitt's run-ins with his commanders came in May 2004 during the Navy's annual Fleet Week celebrations in New York, when the city holds various events to honor sailors.


Klingenschmitt objected to having Navy personnel attend Fleet Week church services at the Marble Collegiate Church, which has an outreach ministry to gays and lesbians. The church has hosted Fleet Week services for years.


In an e-mail to senior chaplains, Klingenschmitt said the Marble Church "endorses homosexual sin." He said it was improper for the Navy to have sailors attend the church because homosexual acts are crimes under military law and two sailors recently had been discharged for homosexual acts while at sea.


Days later, a senior chaplain wrote to all chaplains and executive officers in the Anzio's group saying that "each ship is expected to provide bodies to this service" at the Marble Church. Klingenschmitt said he complied, finding 20 sailors to attend the service.


A July 2004 "letter of instruction" to the chaplain from the Anzio's commander, Capt. Jim Carr, took Klingenschmitt to task for the Fleet Week incident.


"You distributed an e-mail of protestation, alleging certain unacceptable beliefs in the Marble Church that created a great deal of concern among Navy and New York City leadership," Carr wrote. "This (incorrectly and improperly) created an impression in the highest levels of the U.S. Navy that Anzio and our Religious Ministries program were in contention with Navy policy to support Fleet Week obligations."


Officials from Marble Collegiate Church did not return repeated telephone and e-mails on Friday.


The church's Web site says Marble Collegiate "provides dynamic, positive spiritual direction to a diverse and embracing congregation." A mission statement describes "an inclusive community."


A message on the site from the senior minister at the church, Rev. Arthur Caliandro, says "all the world's great religions have the same social values at their cores: love for one another, help for the poor and disadvantaged, honor in personal behavior, and justice for all."


The Anzio's executive officer, Lt. Cmdr. Tom Williams, referred a reporter's questions to Owens, the Naval Surface Forces Atlantic spokesman. Owens said he could not provide any details on the Fleet Week incident.


Klingenschmitt said he also had to push for the Anzio to provide kosher meals for an Orthodox Jewish sailor. The Navy provides kosher meals for its Jewish members, but smaller ships such as the Anzio often must specially order such meals.


Klingenschmitt said the Anzio did provide kosher meals but did not stock enough kosher rations for the sailor, who lost 17 pounds on a tour at sea.


Carr's letter also mentioned that incident, saying Klingenschmitt "misrepresented the Command concern for this issue."


"The issue was easily resolved once the Commanding Officer became involved, but only after senior leadership in the Navy Chaplain Corps gained an (incorrect and unwarranted) impression of unrest or dissatisfaction within Anzio concerning the issue," Carr wrote.


In March, Carr wrote to Navy Personnel Command recommending against extending Klingenschmitt's tour of active duty.


"He has demonstrated recurring confusion concerning a chaplain's role within a military organization," Carr wrote.


Klingenschmitt, Carr added, "has been cautioned in this regard by his Commanding Officer and the Force Chaplain, but thus far has not made appreciable progress toward change."


Klingenschmitt said he is waiting for the Navy's final decision on whether he will continue on active duty.


80 posted on 05/04/2006 1:41:25 PM PDT by jec41 (Screaming Eagle)
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