Women, Sex, and Taboos in Saudi Society

MEMRI/Al-Arabiya TV ^ | 6-1-06 | Zaynab Hifni

[RS]

"But it's awfully convenient to follow when an imam needs to find a precedent...isn't it? "

EXACTLY ... How do you think Bin Laden and Zarquari are justifying their actions ?

I have no doubt they would even accept the "booty" translations if it suited their purpose.

[Gondring]

Rockets from the Sockets!

[Fred Nerks]

"EXACTLY ... How do you think Bin Laden and Zarquari are justifying their actions ?"

Seems they ask a cleric to establish (scientifically?) through evaluation of the ahadith collections - and sunna -if the terrorism they are about to embark upon is a true reflection of the laws of allah as 'recited' by 'allah's prophet' and/or as narrated by the 'companions'...

Spoils of War=Booty:

The Arab raids were the result of the Arabs’ acceptance of the new religion of Islam and the expansion of the Arab state. According to some sources, it is claimed that the first Arab raids started during Abu Bakr’s caliphate around A.D 632-634. However, it is widely accepted that the first Arab raids were initiated around A.D 647 or A.D 649, which marks the 24th anniversary of Hijra (Muhammad’s migration to Medina). The initial raids, which took place during the reign of Uthman, were led by the Governor of Damascus Muawiya and those raids were repeated around 24 times until A.D 969

RAIDS=PLUNDER=BOOTY

[Fred Nerks]

Your cartoon means nothing to me, I'm an Aussie, never heard of Rockets Sockets!

[Fred Nerks]

Bible Verses in Many Languages:


Af-maxaad tiri, Af-Soomaali, Afrikaans, Akimel O'odham, Al Arabiya, Ambo, Arabic, Araucano, Ashlushlay, Axluslay, Bahasa Indonesia, Bahasa Melayu, Beetjuans, Blue Meo, Caffre, Cauzuh, Changana, Chaoxian, Chechen, Chinese, Chuana, Chulupe, Chulupí, Chulupie, Churupi, Coana, Creek, Cuana, Cuangar, Dauwa, Dawa, deitsh, Dongo, English, español, Farsi, Greek, Gullah, Gwamba, Haitian, Hawaiian, Ikinyarwanda, Hebrew, Hindi, Hmong Njua, Indonesian, Isiswati, Isiswazi, IsiXhosa, Isizulu, Ivrit, Japanese, Kaffer, Kaffir, Kekchi, Ketchi, Kikongo, Kimbundu, Kingoni, Kinh, Kinyarwanda, Kiswahili, Kitsonga, Koosa, Korean, Kwangali, Kwangare, Kwangari, Lingala, Loanda, Loande, Luanda, Lunda, Malagasy, Malayalam, Malaysian, Malgache, Maori, Mapuche, Mapudungu, Mapudungun, Maputongo, Mbundu, Melanesian Pidgin, Meo, Miao, moRukwangali, Muskokee, N'Bundo, Nalca, Nalja, N'Bundo, Nbundu, Ndauwa, Ndebele, Ndonga, Ndongo, Nduga, Ndugwa, Ndzundza, Nebome, Nevome, Ngala, Ngoni, Nihongo, Nokchiin Muott, North Mbundu, Northern Sotho, Nokhchiin, Nrebele, Nyoro, Ochindonga, 'Olelo Hawai'i, O'odham, O'othham, Orunyarwanda, Orunyoro, Oshindonga, Osindonga, Otjiwambo, Owambo, Papago, Pedi, Pennsylvania Deitsh, Pennsylvania Dutch, Persian, Pesecham, Pesechem, Pesegem, Piman, português, Portuguese, Ruanda, Rukwangali, Runyoro, Rutooro, Rwanda, Samoan, Sechuana, Seminole, Sepedi, Sesotho, Shitsonga, shkip, Shona, Shuar, Sikwangali, Sisotho, Southern Ndebele, Southern Sotho, Souto, Somali, Spanish, Suthu, Suto, Swahili, Swati, Swazi, Te Reo, Tekela, Tekeza, Thonga, Tohono O'odham, Tonga, Transvaal Ndebele, Transvaal Sotho, Tsonga, Tswana, Uele, Uma, Upper Piman, Urunyarwanda, Vietnamese, Welle, Xhosa, Xichangana, Xitsonga, Xosa, Yupik, Zulu, Zunda,

http://www.seghea.com/pat/bible/language.html

Yumi olgeta man yumi bin mekim sin, na yumi no inap i stap wantaim God long heven. Rom. 3:23

Sin i save givim pe long ol wokboi bilong en. Dispela pe em dai tasol. Tasol God i save givim nating presen long yumi, em laip i stap oltaim. Dispela laip yumi kisim long wok bilong Jisas Krais, Bikpela bilong yumi. Rom. 6:23

Yupela i bilip long Krais, na long marimari bilong God tasol, God i kisim bek yupela. Dispela em i no samting yupela yet i mekim. Nogat. God i givim nating long yupela. Em i no olsem pe bilong wok yupela i mekim. Olsem na i no gat wanpela man em inap litimapim nem bilong em yet. Eph. 2:8-9

Tasol man bilong kisim takis em i sanap longwe, na em i no laik lukluk i go antap long heven. Nogat. Em i paitim bros bilong en na i tok, 'God, mi man bilong mekim sin. Yu ken marimari long mi.' Lk. 18:13

"God i gat wanpela Pikinini tasol i stap. Tasol God i laikim tumas olgeta manmeri bilong graun, olsem na em i givim dispela wanpela Pikinini long ol. Em i mekim olsem bilong olgeta manmeri i bilip long em ol i no ken lus. Nogat. Bai ol i kisim laip i stap gut oltaim oltaim. God i no salim Pikinini bilong en i kam long graun bilong skelim pasin bilong ol manmeri bilong graun olsem jas. Nogat. Em i salim em i kam bilong kisim bek ol. Jn. 3:16-17

http://www.seghea.com/pat/bible/melanesian.html

The Bible 'works' in Melanesian Pidgin but but but the koran/ahadith can't be translated from arabic...you gotta be kiddin...!

[Fred Nerks]

Booty
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The traditional meaning of booty is something both valuable and acquired by force or daring. The proceeds of criminal activity are sometimes referred to as booty, especially from piratical exploits. Historically, booty included plunder (from an enemy), loot (from piracy), or a prize (won by daring).

[RS]

"Seems they ask a cleric to establish (scientifically?) through evaluation of the ahadith collections - and sunna -if the terrorism they are about to embark upon is a true reflection of the laws of allah as 'recited' by 'allah's prophet' and/or as narrated by the 'companions'... "

... and how do you come about this revelation of their modus operandi ?

Do you seriously think that Bin Laden passed his plans for the WTC across the desk of some other religious leader for their blessing ?

[RS]

"The Bible 'works' in Melanesian Pidgin but but but the koran/ahadith can't be translated from arabic...you gotta be kiddin...! "

Never said it couldn't ... but the words choosen for any translation other then a literal one is arbitrary, based on the viewpoint and knowledge of the subject by the translator. I'm sure a Babelfish translation would come out quite different.

( Obviously even a literal translation is based on the initial selection of words by whoever sets the rules )

[RS]

"Booty
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia "

You illustrate my point - Instead of choosing to use a traditional source for your "translation" of the word booty, such as a dictionary, you shopped and found a translation that supported your premise.

To further illustrate my point, your source can vary it's translation from moment to moment - or could easily be "adjusted" by simple means to say whatever you want it to say at any time.

Bin Laden and Zarquawi would use the same means should they find a need of a translation to support THEIR actions also.

[Gondring]

An obscure Superhero who can shoot his eyes out, with the cry "Rocket from the Sockets!"

'Twas a silly thing.

[Fred Nerks]

"Do you seriously think that Bin Laden passed his plans for the WTC across the desk of some other religious leader for their blessing ?"

YES.

He had his own tame cleric - Mullah Omar. The self-styled religious authority paraded before the taleban wearing 'the cloak of muhammad' - don't you remember?

Hey, what does it take to become a 'cleric' in islam?

[Fred Nerks]

"...but the words choosen for any translation other then a literal one is arbitrary, based on the viewpoint and knowledge of the subject by the translator. I'm sure a Babelfish translation would come out quite different..."

So, has there EVER been a translation of the koran and/or the ahadith in ANY language that would make an arab mohammadan say...yep, that's close enough, hmmmm?

[Fred Nerks]

Just happened to be the first one I came across. Here's another one.

http://www.elook.org/dictionary/booty.html

Definition:
[noun] goods or money obtained illegally
Synonyms: loot, pillage, plunder, prize, swag, dirty money

booty: Definition, Synonyms and Much More From Answers.combooty n. , pl. -ties . Plunder taken from an enemy in time of war. Goods or property seized by force or piracy.
www.answers.com/topic/booty - 44k - Cached - Similar pages

[RS]

"goods or money obtained illegally "

Correct - so ?

They are not "tribute" "taxes" or "spoils of war"

... and so we come full circle to my original question of the use of the word and the translation that they would have come from - Do you seriously think that a follower of the religion, who presumably wrote the original in Arabic, would have used a word that would have accused his leaders of illegal actions ?

The conotation of illegality attached to it MUST have come from someone adding THEIR bias into the translation -

When reading it, a neutral reader MUST take that bias into account.

[RS]

"So, has there EVER been a translation of the koran and/or the ahadith in ANY language that would make an arab mohammadan say...yep, that's close enough, hmmmm? "

As far as the Koran goes, there are some that were done by Followers of Islam, but there is also disagreement on passages between them. I believe you have quoted from them earlier.

For the Hadiths - I haven't bothered to look much at them, as I think they are all a crock - written afterwards by people to promote their own goals.

The Koran, like the Bible, says "this is all you get " but like Joe Smith, the writers of the Hadiths added their own stuff anyway.

[Fred Nerks]

Database Search Results

---

The query [booty] generated the following matches:

Complete Sahih Bukhari

001.002.035 001.002.050 001.003.087 001.007.331 001.008.367 001.008.429 001.012.722 002.023.482 002.024.551 003.027.006 003.027.008 003.034.294 003.034.302 003.034.432 003.035.456 003.038.503 003.040.563 003.041.589 003.044.668 003.044.684 003.046.716 003.047.757 003.047.778 004.051.013 004.052.046 004.052.065 004.052.104 004.052.115 004.052.116 004.052.153 004.052.276 004.052.286 004.052.301 004.052.308 004.052.309 004.053.324 004.053.325 004.053.326 004.053.327 004.053.344 004.053.348 004.053.351 004.053.352 004.053.353 004.053.355 004.053.358 004.053.359 004.053.360 004.053.361 004.053.362 004.053.364 004.053.366 004.053.371 004.053.375 004.053.378 004.053.379 004.053.382 004.053.383 004.056.713 005.057.048 005.057.060 005.058.122 005.059.340 005.059.360 005.059.361 005.059.367 005.059.375 005.059.395 005.059.469 005.059.479 005.059.537 005.059.538 005.059.540 005.059.541 005.059.544 005.059.546 005.059.607 005.059.608 005.059.619 005.059.621 005.059.622 005.059.623 005.059.624 005.059.625 005.059.626 005.059.627 005.059.636 005.059.637 005.059.654 005.059.655 005.059.668 006.060.407 007.062.137 007.064.271 007.065.336 007.067.406 007.067.417 007.067.427 007.067.451 008.073.085 008.073.184 008.073.195 008.073.226 008.075.348 008.075.374 008.078.644 008.078.698 008.079.712 008.080.720 009.089.282 009.091.371 009.092.408 009.093.549 009.093.555 009.093.644 009.093.645



http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

[Fred Nerks]

Translation of Sahih Bukhari
Translator: M. Muhsin Khan

methinks your argument re translation might be with the translator - M. Mushin Khan.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/

[Fred Nerks]

Volume 4, Book 53, Number 351:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:

Allah's Apostle said, "Booty has been made legal for me."


******

Legal for mohammad but not legal for others, I gather...

[TightyRighty]

I thought it was Jessie Jackson's:

[Fred Nerks]

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/index.php

What is the opinion of the Ulema regarding the shia sources of Hadith?

How is it different from the Sunni sources? Who are the transmitters of the Shia Hadith since they reject the Sahaba of Prophet (PBUH)?

Answer 15305 2005-11-14


The usage of the word ‘Hadith’ in Shi’a sense differs from the Sunni usage of the word. According to the Shi’as, Hadith refers to the statements of their Imaams and also those statements that their Imaams attested to.

Thus, we find the first ‘Hadith’ book of the Shi’as is Usool-ul-Kaafi. This is the work of Muhammad ibn Ya’coob al-Kaleeni (d.328AH). This is considered a book of Hadith because according to the Shi’as, Imaam Mahdi attested to the correctness of this book. (Asaarul Hadith vol.1 pg.413)

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best

Mufti Ebrahim Desai