Our guy on the phone making plans to stick it to the troops.
Posted on 06/03/2006 8:46:28 AM PDT by Thebaddog
Our guy on the phone making plans to stick it to the troops.
If he's a local doctor, then even if he's a practicing Buddhist, he'd be insane to go against what the local Sunni extremists want. If he crossed them, they'd put a bullet in him as soon as they could find him.
Still, your statement isn't entirely accurate. A seperate Marine intelligence team went in after the battle, and took photographs of the site, to include the bodies, the houses, and other items of interest. That report, which I have not seen, apparently failed to note the cause of death, but from the photos, I'm guessing it should be pretty evident. (I've seen lots of similar reports) In the normal course of events no one would ever notice that kind of discrepency, so it's not unusual that they needed to do an investigation to figure it out.
Did they take photos? As per who? From what I've read so far, the pictures were taken not by our investigators, but by the "journalist" in the article posted above.
1. According to several reports, the bodies have not been exhumed, and the Iraqis are unlikely to cooperate in such an effort.
2. The only "examination" was done by a local doctor with iffy credentials, and many ties to terrorist groups. He's written articles filled with hatred of the West in general, and the US in particular.
3. The only witnesses are likewise connected to terrorists (as are most of Haditha), and if you note the different interviews, the stories change a lot from interview to interview.
THIS is what the media, the 'Rats, and some even on FR, are willing to run with in the mad dash to convict these Marines.
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Regarding your Point #2, a Dr. with iffy credentials that hates the U.S. Are you sure he's not a full-time employee of CNN? After all, he fits their hiring requirements PERFECTLY...
I'm not saying it's conclusive, but I've been in long enough to know that when the military doesn't reflexively rush to challenge and correct things like this, it's not good.
WASHINGTON — Photographs taken by a Marine intelligence team have convinced investigators that a Marine unit killed as many as 24 unarmed Iraqis, some of them "execution-style," in the insurgent stronghold of Haditha after a roadside bomb killed an American in November, officials close to the investigation said Friday.
The pictures are said to show wounds to the upper bodies of the victims, who included several women and six children. Some were shot in the head and some in the back, congressional and defense officials said.
But please note: without forensic work on the bodies, there is no way of knowing whether they were killed with US bullets or terrorist bullets--or if the guns that killed them were among those taken or stolen from our side or what.
This story (and others like it) also fail to mention what the officer stated--which is that when he was there just days after it was alleged to have happened, no one in town so much as mentioned the alleged event. Doesn't that seem a little strange to you?
Let's please remember: it would not be the first time the dark side had staged an event to make it look like something else. Remember the so-called "wedding party" claims, just for instance? And please also note that these people think nothing of using women and children to absorb enemy fire--cowards and cretins, every one of those terrorists.
What I don't understand is what photos taken a long time after the event is over prove.
It doesn't prove how bullet holes got there or who put them there. It doesn't prove that the bodies were shot before they were dead. It doesn't prove who killed the dead.
I still remember the "massacre" of Palestinians a few years back. Even the UN concluded that it was bullcrap. And the whole friggin' town lied to the media about it and the media bought it hook, line and sinker.
I think we need a rundown of the events of that massacre.
The fact that these stories are popping up all of a sudden is no accident. This is political warfare pure and simple. The enemy has studied us. He now knows he can't inflict enough casualties to get us to cut and run, so now he goes to the history books of the Left and pulls out the My Lai card. He'll keep throwing these massacre stories out there until one sticks.
For that matter, remember the Marine who was tried and convicted by Reuters for shooting the terrorist on film in the room in Fallujah. A non-event if there ever was one. Yet the media could speak of nothing else for a week. Turns out he acted properly within the rules of engagement.
I'm pretty sure that the site was held and the intelligence team showed up shortly after the engagement. Ramadi's just down the road, so it wouldn't take them long. If there was a chance that someone could have tampered with the site beforehand, there wouldn't be much point in sending out a team to document what happened. I'll do some more research on the subject and see what I can dig up. To my understanding, the intel team's report is either wrong or incomplete, as far as the cause of death for the civilians. Given the other wrong report and what is found in the photos, it seems that's what has the investigators concerned.
As to your other points - Fragmentation wounds and gunshot wounds are fairly distinct. If I showed you a set of 24 IED casualties, and a set of 24 gunshot casualties, you could pick which set was which with little effort. The exact weapons used are trickier, but if it gets down to that, we'll exhume the bodies whether the families want it or not, via a court order from the Iraqi government.
As far as what the officer said, in extremist areas like that, where the village officials and elders that you talk to are likely in on plots to kill you, it's not unusual that they'd say anything other than, 'We don't like terrorists here. We hope you find them so we are safe. We love George Bush.' Especially somewhere like Haditha. They'd figure, if we killed all those people, we did it on purpose. What's the use of complaining to the infidel invaders about something like that?
Yes, that's entirely true. In fact, the enemy has 'media cells' that specialize in just that type of activity. They take footage and manipulate it, arrange events, and basically manufacture propaganda wholesale. If you get into a lot of the texts from Zarqawi or Bin Laden, you'll notice that they contain ridiculously exaggerated or distorted news items (or quotes from members of the DNC, in some cases). They understand that exaggerations and half-truth boasting shows confidence, and encourage the faithful extremists that their side is winning. I know very well that those types of terrorist teams are out there, and working around the clock to put out fresh propaganda.
Our government has a history of hanging the wrong person.
Investigators have also learned that two separate groups of Marines showed up at the four houses shortly after the attack. One was a team collecting intelligence information. The other was a foot patrol.
The government official says the Marine intelligence team took digital photos of the scene and then deleted them; he says that's because the team found no intelligence information of value. Marines from the foot patrol also took pictures. They are now in the hands of investigators. The government official describes them as "gruesome."
"Someone on another thread mentioned that disturbing a body
that has been buried is a NO-NO to the mohammadans."
This may be generally true but they did dig up Saddam's mass graves to get the evidence against him.
Yeah, but these are guys who were running around exterminating Shiites, using the "assassination style" method supposedly shown on the photos. Holding the site may have just resulted in preserving evidence of a Sunni mass-killing committed earlier.
I'm sure that in the course of a criminal investigation, the Iraqi government will authorize it. The locals don't have to like it.
In case you haven't seen it, you should read this Frontpage Article:
Haditha: Blood Money, Lies and Videotape?
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1642134/posts
Besides what you have said, the people on the ground have been known to lie for money. As little as $100.
And the US gives out $2500 to relatives of civilians who have been killed as collateral damage.
Which they have done in Haditha.
(A Humvee knocks down front gate. We come in, secure the area, and find the suspected PC (our target) sitting in his front yard, in a mixture of shock and terror. After clearing the house, we and the interpreter have a talk with the suspect).
-Good evening sir. Are you "Abu Shabu"?
* Um.. no, I'm "Abu Shaboo". You must have the wrong guy.
-Is this you? (showing him a picture of himself)
* No, that's someone else.
-Is this your house.
* Um.. no. I mean, it's ... my wife's house. And .. um .. I live here.
-Close enough. We're going to take a look around. Are there any weapons here?
* Weapons? No, no weapons.
(5 min later)
-Sir, your garage is stacked to the roof with rifles, grenades, and ammunition. There's a shotgun in your bedroom. There's also a large stack of RPGs in your back yard.
*They're not mine. I don't know how that stuff got there.
-Sir, are you a Baathist?
* No.
-Your Baath party membership is on the mantle.
*Oh, that. Umm..
-It's next to a picture of you hugging Saddam.
*Yeah, umm...
-You're coming with us.
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