[cripplecreek]

I think urban civilization is very fragile. Take away the food in a city like LA for a week and it becomes a Snake Pliskin movie in a hurry.

[BenLurkin]

ping

[EastIdaho]

... civilization is a flimsy cloak, and just outside are hunger, thirst, and cold... waiting. Louis L'Amour

[wintertime]

Unlike the Zambezi villagers, Fagan had access to the outside modern world that could supply him Nestle chocolate, canned Spam, rolled oatmeal, powdered milk and whatever else he needed.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Why are the villagers starving and Fagan is not?

Answer: The Zambezi villagers have a morally corrupt government. The villagers themselves may be morally corrupt.

Fagan on the other hand has the benefit of a society that includes the following:

1) Free markets

2) Respect of private property.

3) Honest courts and police to put criminals in jail, enforce contracts, and defend the citizen's private property.

4) An honest arm to defend the borders and repel invaders.

5 A morally sound populace with the goodwill to cooperate with each other and a commitment to make it work.

[JimSEA]

In order for nimble hunter/gatherers to survive climate change, most must die off periodically to maintain the balance. Farming prevented this kill off. We can return to be hunter/gatherers if we will accept high infant mortality, short life spans, and the loss of ten thousand years of accumulated knowledge.

[Young Werther]

Last evening we watched the new series on Animal Planet on the satellite dish. This new series follows a Meerkat family on the Kallahara. When you watch these shows and the people who study thes animals apply human names and socialized activities it reminds me that we too are animals. Meerkats are a matriarchal society and their behavior is quite advanced and family focused. They're obviously Republicans!

An upcoming show with Sigourney Weaver returning to Africa to visit the Gorillas in the Mists should tell us alot about our curioisty.

Meerkats!

[KTM rider]

From an athropolological perspective....

the only survivors in a hunter-gatherer culture were successful conservatives....(Ann Coulter,Ted Nugent types),

then the farming culture produced a need for sharing, spawning the fragile communist mindset of the leftist liberals....(Cindy Sheehan/Al Gore types)

so do the math .....which set of culture types is more likely to survive harsh circumstances

[mcashman]

Frankly, nonsense.

Modern civilization is a robust and complex interconnected system with a wide variety of redundant and fault tolerant paths. When a natural disaster strikes, other regions can transport help, markets send price signals about scarcity and need.

We can use technologies that past societies would consider precognition to be able to predict the paths of storms, the onset of flooding, to watch lightning and tornados. We can predict and prepare and we have economic systems that insulate individuals, groups, and the rest of society from risks that become issues.

Billions of minds can collaborate, even without contact, solving problems like the development of vaccines, creation of chemicals to produce sanitation, development of light and strong materials to create structures that are resistant to heat, cold, shock and many other dangers.

We have withstood plagues, natural disasters and wars that would have been so massive as to be incomprehensible to past civilizations. Where the death of a key crop might have destroyed a more limited civilization, we simply substitute.

People like the author are afraid of interdependencies, but interdepedencies are what makes our civilization resilient. Imagine living in a small group of hundreds - what could you accomplish, how many problems could you solve? One thing is for sure - not even close to those we can solve in our exciting, complex, turbuklent society.

To hell with the doomsaers!

[Donald Meaker]

I would point out that hunters/gatherers are much more dependent on weather than farmers. Hunters/gathers do not have the ability to store food against tomorrow. Farmers do it all the time. That food storage makes farming superior.

Consider a city in a third world hell hole. One rotten local government guy, and the city would be destroyed. Look at Zimbabwe, as a particular example.

How many disasters would have to occur to have a city in the US fall to that level. Even New Orleans, after a disasterously corrupt state government for over 50 years, after a disasterously corrupt city government for 50 years, even when it is 30 feet below sea level, and then taking a hurricane:

New Orleans is still there!

US cities are like government programs: they hardly ever die.

[LonePalm]

Bump for later read.

Garde la Foi, mes amis! Nous nous sommes les sauveurs de la République! Maintenant et Toujours!
(Keep the Faith, my friends! We are the saviors of the Republic! Now and Forever!)
LonePalm, le Républicain du verre cassé (The Broken Glass Republican)

[stuckinloozeeana]

WE'RE DOOMED!

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks BenLurkin!

To all -- please ping me to other topics which are appropriate for the GGG list. Thanks.

Please FREEPMAIL me if you want on or off the
Gods, Graves, Glyphs PING list or GGG weekly digest
-- Archaeology/Anthropology/Ancient Cultures/Artifacts/Antiquities, etc.
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[SunkenCiv]

[Balding_Eagle]

Our ancestors made themselves and us more vulnerable to the vagaries of nature and the weather once they switched from hunting and gathering to farming.

THIS is news?

Anyone with two brain cells knew that. Seesh, with experts like this we're doomed.

[GOP Poet]

ping

[Texas Songwriter]

Civilized urban America (an oxymoron) is 2 meals and a heavy rainstorm and tidal surge away from anarchy.

[Dustbunny]

5 acres and independence.

[Mr. Jeeves]

Well, if you live in a village of straw huts away from the beach, a 9.2 earthquake is no more troublesome than a gust of wind.

[ASOC]

Orson Scott Card wrote an interesting book, Folks of the Fringe. The US fell apart after the 'six rocket war".

Good story and some interesting points.

(http://www.tor.com/sites/cgi-bin/bookpage3.cgi?ISBN=0812500865)

Also, Lucifer's Hammer (Niven/Pournell)had some interesting points

If you enjoy post-apocoliptic tales that is....

[razorback-bert]

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