Tell The Commandant

Semper Fidelis

Sent

It seems to me an outrage, and quite possibly illegal to boot, to put Marines in the brig and to shackle them, when no charges have been filed against them.

This paragraph would get the rest of the email deleted. Military law on pretrial confinement is very different from civilian law.

Semper Fi Gunny and sending.

Give the paragraph and legal precedence in writing to support the confining and shackling of someone not charged under the UCMJ.

Verse and chapter please.

My high respect for marines does not include this Commandant. He appears to be a clone of Wesley Clark. I know "Cranky Clark" is not a marine. Hagee looks like a guy headed for political office on a demorat ticket.

Marine Corps Defends Treatment Of Camp Pendleton 8 In Brig...

http://www.network54.com/Forum/135069/message/1150478737/Marine+Corpss+Defends+Treatment+Of+Camp+Pendlton+8+In+Brig

Give the paragraph and legal precedence in writing to support the confining and shackling of someone not charged under the UCMJ.

I'm going on my personal experience. We had two guys confined and shackled in Vietnam before charges were filed (one was a rape out in the ville, the other was grand larceny and retaliation). Once the confinement starts, it also starts the clock on bringing the case to trial (no more than 120 days). These things are essentially the commander's discretion, based on the need to maintain good order and discipline, security within the unit, and the nature of the potential charges. Any pre-trial confinement or restriction is subject to review up the chain of command, and shackles would definitely require serious justification (we ended up with the senior JAG officer in-country showing up to get briefed on why we were doing that).

No, I don't care about your personal experiences. I want you to quote the UCMJ, chapter and verse where this was a legal action.

Nothing else means a damned thing.

Subchapter II, Articles 7-14 spell out what is not permitted, or what is specifically required--and that isn't much. Anything outside what is required or what is specifically prohibited comes under the unit commander's authority.

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2006/06/16/news/top_stories/22_25_016_15_06.txt

Friday, June 16, 2006
Last modified Thursday, June 15, 2006 11:53 PM PDT

Marine Corps defends treatment of troops in brig

By: MARK WALKER and DAVID STERRETT - Staff Writers

CAMP PENDLETON ---- The Marine Corps on Thursday defended the treatment of seven Marines and a Navy corpsman being held in the base brig as investigators probe the alleged killing of an Iraqi civilian on April 26.

The men from the Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 5th Marine Regiment's Kilo Company are being investigated by the Naval Criminal Investigative Service for the alleged kidnapping and slaying of 52-year-old Hashim Ibrahim Awad al-Zobaie.

Family members of the servicemen have told the media that they are being held in solitary confinement.

A base spokesman disputed that characterization Thursday, saying none of the eight are in solitary confinement.

In a written statement, the Marine Corps said each is considered a "maximum restraint" inmate kept alone in an 8-by-9 cell furnished with a bed, mattress, toilet, sink, desk and storage locker.

Each cell has a window allowing for plenty of sunshine, and the troops are allowed one hour a day in the recreation yard, according to the statement issued by Maj. Jeff Nyhart.

But attorneys and family members for the men complained Thursday that hand and leg cuffs used when they are outside their cells are excessive and that other conditions of their confinement are unwarranted.

The father of Pfc. John Jodka III of Encinitas said he has visited his 20-year-old son three times and considers his son in solitary confinement.

"I don't know Webster's definition for solitary confinement, but this seems pretty close to the mark," said his father, John Jodka Jr.

He said the men must eat in their cell and have to yell down a hallway to communicate with fellow inmates. The men can make phone calls, but the receiver has to be handed to them through the door, Jodka said.

While none have been charged, the troops have been held behind bars for more than three weeks. Each has appeared before a base officer acting as a magistrate who concurred with the decision to keep them in custody. Four other Marines from the squad are considered material witnesses and are restricted to base.

Nyhart said it remains unclear when the investigation of the incident will be completed and when Pentagon brass will decide whether any charges should be lodged.

In its statement, the Marine Corps said hand and leg cuffs are appropriate and that it is following Defense Department and Navy regulations. The men were detained in Iraq on May 10 and have been behind bars since May 25, one day after arriving back at Camp Pendleton.

"Restriction as in other forms of restraint is a prudent measure that all law enforcement agencies use in order to ensure those accused of serious misconduct are not allowed to flee or take actions which could endanger law enforcement personnel or hurt themselves while initial allegations are investigated," the statement said.

Jane Siegel, one of the attorneys representing Jodka, said the Marine Corps has made small strides to better the conditions. When she met with Jodka earlier this week, a guard released one of Jodka's hands from the shackles so he could write, Siegel said.

"That was some improvement," she said.

San Diego attorney Jeremiah Sullivan III, who is representing a 20-year-old Navy corpsman, said he is trying to get the Marine Corps to remove the shackles from the men when they leave their cells.

"My client looks like Hannibal Lecter with all of the shackles," Sullivan said Thursday before the military released the statement, referring to a fictional, cannibalistic character in the movie "Silence of the Lambs."

Attorney Thomas Watt of Vista, who said he represents one of the men in custody, disputed the Marine Corps statement that also said the troops are allowed to speak with other inmates in their area of the brig.

"They can maybe talk to the individual next door, but they are not allowed to carry on conversations," said Watt, a retired Marine lieutenant colonel. "They haven't talked to another military soul on a friendly basis since being arrested."

He also objected to the troops being held in maximum custody conditions, calling the extra precautions "ridiculous." He said they should be allowed to move around without shackles when out of their cells and to eat with other inmates.

The statement from Camp Pendleton said the men have access to reading material, music and TV, and can visit a convenience store in the brig. They are supplied with the same meals given other inmates, but must eat in their cells.

The Hamdania case is separate from allegations that up to a dozen Marines from Camp Pendleton's 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment were involved in the killing of 24 unarmed civilians in the Iraqi city of Haditha last Nov. 19.

No Marines involved in that case have been charged, and none are in custody.

Marine spokesman Nyhart said it remains unclear when the investigations of the two incidents will be completed and when Pentagon brass will decide whether any charges should be lodged.

A preliminary report into whether Marine commanders in Iraq attempted to cover up the Haditha incident was completed nearly two weeks ago and forwarded to Lt. Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the multi-forces commander in Iraq, the military said.

A spokesman for Chiarelli has said the general wants to make sure there were no loose ends before releasing its contents.

In Washington, the House and Senate Armed Services committees are awaiting preliminary reports of the investigations before scheduling hearings into how the military handled the cases.

Josh Holly, spokesman for the House Armed Services Committee chaired by U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter, R-El Cajon, said Thursday that those hearings may not take place until after Congress reconvenes from its Fourth of July recess.

There is still an outside chance that the hearings, which will be conducted by each branch of Congress over consecutive days, could take place this month but that now looks doubtful, Holly said.

Contact staff writer Mark Walker at (760) 740-3529 or mlwalker@nctimes.com. Contact staff writer David Sterrett at (760) 740-3516 or dsterrett@nctimes.com.

Verse and chapter please.

UCMJ

809. ART. 9. IMPOSITION OF RESTRAINT

(a) Arrest is the restraint of a person by an order, not imposed as a punishment for an offense, directing him to remain within certain specified limits. Confinement is the physical restraint of a person.

(b) An enlisted member may be ordered into arrest or confinement by any commissioned officer by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or through other persons subject to this chapter. A commanding officer may authorize warrant officers, petty officers, or noncommissioned officers to order enlisted members of his command or subject to his authority into arrest or confinement.

(c) A commissioned officer, a warrant officer, or a civilian subject to this chapter or to trial thereunder may be ordered into arrest or confinement only by a commanding officer to whose authority he is subject, by an order, oral or written, delivered in person or by another commissioned officer. The authority to order such persons into arrest or confinement may not be delegated.

(d) No person may be ordered into arrest or confinement except for probable cause.

(e) Nothing in this article limits the authority of person s authorized to apprehend offenders to secure the custody of an alleged offender until proper authority may be notified.

I believe (d) implies that charges are not a prerequisite for arrest or confinement.

Semper Fi bttt

Thank you for posting this. I only heard it on Sean Hannity's radio talk show and I was outraged about the treatment these Marines were receiving. Sean had the father of one of the Marines on his show yesterday and today and the father thanked Sean for his help in getting the Marines unshackled at least. I don't truly know the whole story, but how can the American people help?

There is a previous posting on this that probably covered things in a bit more detail...

The Camp Pendleton 8

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1649789/posts

Shackles removed from confined Marines, sailor by GyG (Login Dick Gaines) Forum Owner June 16, 2006 Shackles removed from confined Marines, sailor By Gidget Fuentes Times staff writer OCEANSIDE, Calif. � Military officials on Friday said they have decided to remove shackles put on seven confined Marines and one sailor whenever they�re outside their individual cells at the Camp Pendleton brig, a Marine Corps spokesman said. The eight men, confined at the brig since May 24, were being held with �maximum� restraints based on their battalion commander�s decision following an initial investigation into the shooting. As of Friday, they were shifted into what�s called �medium-in� restraint in pre-trial custody, which does not require shackles to be worn, although they remain escorted anytime they are outside their cell, according to 2nd Lt. Lawton King, a base spokesman. Under �medium-in,� they won�t have any personal restraint while inside the brig, but once outside � such as to go to a court hearing � each �is restrained with handcuffs attached to a leather belt � and their respective escorts carry along leg cuffs in the event they are needed,� King said. The decision to lower the restraint level came after a June 15 review by the brig commander, he said. The seven Marines and Navy corpsman, all members of the Pendleton-based 3rd Battalion, 5th Marines currently deployed in Iraq, were first confined to quarters in Iraq on May 12 after allegations rose over the April 26 death of an Iraqi man in the village of Hamdaniya. Families and defense attorneys representing three of the men had been complaining publicly and to base officials about the confinement measures that were imposed. The brig houses Marines and sailors who are awaiting court hearings or courts-martial as well as those convicted and serving a sentence. Each of the men are in an 8-foot by 9-foot cells, alone, in a section called �special quarters,� where they receive their meals. Each gets one hour a day to spend at an enclosed outdoor courtyard, where they could exercise if they want, and they can meet with their attorneys in a small private room and with family members in a visitors� room during weekend and holiday visiting hours. Jeremiah Sullivan III, a San Diego attorney representing the sailor, a 20-year-old third-class hospital corpsman, has likened the conditions to worst than what convicted felons at the federal �Supermax� prison must endure. David M. Brahms, a retired brigadier general and attorney in Carlsbad, Calif., who�s met with many of the families, is representing a 21-year-old lance corporal. The men are �shafted and shackled in the worst conditions being imposed,� Brahms said June 14. �Saddam [Hussein] has a better circumstance than these guys.� The eight men will remain in special quarters in individual cells, said Maj. Jeffrey Nyhart another base spokesman. Base officials say the brig, which is a Level II confinement facility, does not have �solitary confinement,� unlike prisons including Fort Leavenworth. Back to top Copyright � 2006 Use of this site signifies your agreement to the Terms of Service.