Marine addresses disrespect to Nat'l Anthem at Baseball game

www.kinstonindians.com ^ | June 12, 2006-presen | various

[Millicent_Hornswaggle]

Okay Freepers, this is a long read, but worth it. The Marine is question, NCMarine is a very good friend of my husbands. He has a long, illustrious career as a Marine and has been there and done that. He has never been afraid of much and will go where he is told. He is as patriotic as they come and if he felt the need to call this guy, it needed to be done. I only wish I was there to see him in action, because knowing him and the fact that he used to be a drill instructor, I'm sure the language was colorful and loud, to say the least.

I think a lot of the posts in response to his action go long way to showing how far the people in country have fallen in disrespect to our flag and our country. On both the military and civilian sides of the issue.

Enjoy!

[Millicent_Hornswaggle]

You might get a kick out of this. James says you and McGurty would get along quite well.
Blessings!

[muawiyah]

A young Boy Scout in my son's troop loved to take down and fold the flag ~ loved to say the pledge of allegiance ~ loved every element of patriotism that enters into the conduct of a troop meeting.

Unfortunately he had a low blood pressure problem, and an ADD problem, so when he stood for the pledge he literally ran in place to keep from feinting.

The kid was regularly criticised by the other adult leaders for being disrespectful.

[Millicent_Hornswaggle]

That is a little different than a grown man with a college degree, standing there scratching, blowing bubbles, and looking like he could care less.

[muawiyah]

Is it? This guy's a baseball player ~ ever wonder why he's still playing games instead of working an adult job?

[opbuzz]

I found this a while ago, printed it and posted it at the Sea Control Weapons School in Jacksonville FL (where I work). There was some confusion that is being cleared up.

I was taught to stand at attention with hand over heart.


Rendering honors: one difference between Sailors, Marines

U.S. Navy photos

Until recently, there has been a difference in the way Sailors and Marines render honors to colors while in civilian attire.

Beginning at boot camp, drill instructors teach Marine recruits to stand at attention during the national anthem and morning and evening colors when in civilian attire.

It has been brought to the Marine Corps' attention that simply standing in the position of attention is not the correct method of rendering honors according to U.S. Navy Regulations.

"For years, our method of rendering honors to colors while in civilian attire has not been in accordance with U.S. Code, Title 36, the U.S. Navy Regulations or our Marine Corps Flag Manual," said Sgt. Maj. Ralph Drake, Training and Education Command sergeant major.

"These all called for placing the right hand over the heart, vice just standing at attention.

"Our new Drill and Ceremonies Order P5060.1 is now in compliance. Marine Corps Recruit Depot Parris Island has already modified their lesson plans on this.

Drill Instructor school will also make the appropriate changes."

The question of whether or not simply standing at the position of attention while in civilian attire was brought up several months ago.

"It was originally brought up by a sergeant major at one of the recruit depot's about six months ago," said Sgt. Maj. Brian Lindstrom, station sergeant major.

"It was then shot out (by e-mail) to a bunch of senior sergeants major for discussion. I don't think there was any argument, because it was already there in writing and it's what we are supposed to be doing. I think a lot of people were in shock 'yeah it is in writing, why aren't we doing it?' That was the question at the recruit depot.

"Why hasn't it always been that way? It could have been an oversight, I'm not sure," said Lindstrom. "Our current policy is if you are in civilian clothes, Marines will be at the position of attention.

"The position of attention is also a sign of respect. But I think being at the position of attention and placing your hand over your heart would be the correct way to do it."

Despite the fact that Marines have learned to stand at attention during colors, they are now expected to follow the guidelines of the U.S. Navy Regulations and Marine Corps Flag Manual.

"The station's corporal's course now teaches the proper way to render honors to colors and the national anthem while in civilian attire," said Lindstrom.

"I have been in for twenty-nine years, and I was taught that if colors play and I'm in civilian attire, to simply stand at the position of attention," said Lindstrom.

"But now if in civilian attire during the national anthem or colors, my right hand will go over my heart."

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Where did this "hand over the heart" business originate? I grew up in the '50s and '60s at a time when the schools activtely taught respect toward the institutions of the country, but the most we were ever instructed to do was to stand quietly and face the flag during the playing of the anthem. The hand-on-the-heart was reserved for the Pledge of Allegiance--symbolizing the nature of a pledge. You're not pledging or vowing anything when the anthem is sung.

I think the problem is that we've gotten so far away from the ideals of patriotism over the course of the past 40 years that people have confused the distinction between the pledge and the anthem.

While we're on the subject, another thing that truly gets my goat is the tendency for people to sing the anthem as if it were some kind of dirge for a fallen rock star. It should be sung in a strong voice with the words clearly enunciated--it's "dawn's early," not "donzerly."

[conservativehusker]

I have a question about proper respect..I am no longer in the military, I have always just stood at attention during the anthem ...is this proper or no that I'm a civilian should I place my hand over my heart??

[NaughtiusMaximus]

A little courtesy and respect are not too much to ask, especially in a world where these are in increasingly short supply. We can each provide a small good example.

[P-40]

people have confused the distinction between the pledge and the anthem.

If they have at least a foggy notion of what one or both of them are I'm surprised.

[geezerwheezer]

You know that sometimes folks need a swift kick in the a$$ to get their attention. Ball players are just like everyone else, and have a tendency, at times, to forget things-just like me. I'm happy this Marine took him to task for his boorish behavior, and truly hope the player remembers to act as a professional ballplayer should the next time. I'm amazed at the insults and threats this Marine received from some folks, but something tells me that he can, and will, be able to handle it. The clown that threatened to write his superiors sounds like a real pantywaist to me, and I'm certain the Marine is just "quaking in his boots" with that threat !! :0 )

[Mad Dawgg]

I attend the Cleveland Browns home Football games regularly and sit in the Dawg Pound. You can sit in the same section I do at Cleveland Stadium and disrespect the flag and the National Anthem all ya want, of course you probably will not enjoy the rest of the game and not want to come back.

Even though most of the guys and gals who sit around me are Union workers and mostly registered Democrats, they have little use for people who disrespect the flag. They tend to get creative in showing people the error of their ways when doing so.

Also it should be noted that though Jim Brown is nearly a God in Cleveland he is ridiculed highly for not taking of that little beanie cap he wears now during the Anthem. He does face the flag and sing usually when at the Games but he never removes that cap.

[Conan the Librarian]

Thank you!

I was hoping someone would bring up that issue of the "hand over the heart" for the Anthem. For the pleadge I say "YES YES", but, there isn't a requirement (except for personal reasons) for hand over the heart when singing the Anthem. There is a requirement for respect and that ballplayer didn't show any at all.

Thank You for saying everthing I was thinking.

[Millicent_Hornswaggle]

For my husband, who is retired, he always stands at attention, as he was taught in boot camp. According to the above article, it has changed. I think you need to do what you are comfortablel with. I have always stood with my hand over my heart during both the anthem and the pledge, as a show of respect.

[csmusaret]

Stand at attention unless you are wearing a hat. In that case place the headgear near your left shoulder with your right hand. That will put your right hand over your heart.

[toddlintown]

The biggest offenders I see wearing caps during the National Anthem are women. No hand on heart, no hat removed and on heart. Nothing.

Next time you watch a baseball game on TV, take a good look. Of course, there are are few male morons too, but take a good count, men vs. women.

[billbears]

The hand-on-the-heart was reserved for the Pledge of Allegiance--symbolizing the nature of a pledge.

Well that's not the real reason is it? Consider the first hand placement that existed while regurgitating the socialist pledge was the Bellamy (not Roman) salute, which by the 1930s could be confused for another nation's salute, the US had to change hand placement didn't they?

[Mr Ramsbotham]

Thank You for saying everything I was thinking.

You're very welcome.

[cowboyway]

Is it? This guy's a baseball player ~ ever wonder why he's still playing games instead of working an adult job?

Because he can. I'd give up my 'adult' job in a heartbeat to be a professional athlete.

BTW, what's the definition of 'adult job'?

[DC Bound]

"...you were totally out of control..." Obviously, you have never witnessed totally out of control.

Funny, but notice how the non-veteran took that comment to mean your friend was personally not in touch with his reason, as opposed to being in a situation that was totally out of control, ie., war, in which one must call upon deep reserves of strength, hope, national pride, brotherly love, etc... to survive and accomplish a task that simply MUST be accomplished.

Sorry, but the only (male) non-veterans I want anything to do with are the ones who are contrite, and know they are freeriding the sacrifices of others, and are decent enough to honor fallen heroes. It is their right, of course, not to. But when more people are concerned with their "right not to serve" and to "express themselves any way they choose," than are concerned with honoring the values that established this nation the deepest, most meaningful way--WITH THEIR OWN SERVICE--that is when we will be lost. Our servicemen and women are willing to spill their blood to replenish freedom. These folks who want to blow bubbles during a two-minute tribute, no matter their right to do so, are selfish bastards. Period.