Posted on 07/07/2006 8:58:04 PM PDT by Anti-Bubba182
Americans are donating thousands of dollars to support Minutemen patrolling the border. But you may be surprised where your money is NOT going in this 4-month investigation.
I concur. The agenda has several names:
Divide and Conquer; Demoralize and Disrupt are three of 'em.
Exactly right, Miss Marple. On all counts.
A huge red flag went up when they didn't support Brian Bilbray and opted to throw support to a split-the-vote candidate.
It is amazing, I don't support Bilray's view on immigration at all. But at the end of the day I had no problems supporting him against the democrat and praying for his victory. I don't know why we are getting in bed with people that threaten to leave the party everytime we don't heel and fall down like a dog when they demand allegiance on a particular issue. These people call themselves the base , but I wonder if they truly are.
We aren't getting into bed with them. They're trying to set ours on fire, and you're right, they are not the base. They're the 1 percenters, and they have an ever changing litmus test to weed out everyone who doesn't toe the line.
That's a good way to put it, onyx, and you're exactly right.
The goal posts are moving so quickly I think it's the stinkin' UN around here.
LOL! The UN posters!
Peach, you've hit on the perfect name!
I swear, they're like Superman and krytomite. They can't exist in the same room with the truth.
And I'm just saying this for the lurkers. Some freepers are justifiably upset with the illegal immigration situation.
Some of the more dishonest freepers, especially those who only blame the president instead of sharing the blame with Congress, are here to stir dissent and are liberals, third party advocates, and some are opinion shapers.
Jim Robinson wrote the foreward for a book called Hillary's Secret War. The book details the early years of the internet and FR is featured prominently in the early chapters. Jim was able to trace where posters were posting from and during the Clinton years, we had a lot of people posting from the Clinton White House, The Washington Post, The New York Times, etc.
These people deliberately target conservative web sites looking for a wedge issue. And naive freepers fall for the spin and the lies.
There seems to be an inability to discern, thus resulting in kneejerk attacks.
I wish the facts mattered to these folks, Peach. I really do. It would make it possible to discuss this critical issue rationally with them.
A couple of times a few months ago I actually stumbled onto an illegal immigration thread and was able to ask questions and get answers. And I was able to post my issues and why I think the president's guest worker plan isn't the worst thing in the world. And none of us fought.
It was a rarity. I learned something from the thread and I think a freeper or two was able to think about the issues differently as a result of one or two of my posts.
We weren't trying to change each other's minds but were trying to learn something.
It's really unfortunate that we have some freepers who can't admit mistakes when they've been proven wrong (ie, Simcox) and it's also unfortunate that most times when I/we enter these threads, the feelings are so hardened on both sides that nothing is ever learned or actually discussed.
I don't remember FR being this bad before, but maybe it's because I stayed away from flame war issues before.
For example, I know there were different opinion about Elian Gonzales, and much as I had a strong feeling about it, nothing that happened with that unfortunate situation was going to affect national security.
There were well over a thousand posts, and over 10,000 hits on it, some really good ideas from all 'sides' of the issue, and only a few jerks (at least one of which behaved in the same rotten fashion right here on this thread).
It CAN be done.
We just need to weed out the people whose goal it is to disrupt and bash (not to mention any names, of course :), and the blind followers (no names there either), and we actually might accomplish something.
I do think it's helpful when people reveal their darker motives, as has happened here. There's been a real education on this thread for quite a few of us.
It's not necessarily pleasant, but it is instructive.
Ranchers Warned on Border Fence (Daily Dispatch, Douglas, July 7):
In a communiqué issued last week, the Minutemen announced they would begin constructing an Israeli-style security fence at an Arizona ranch in early July. The anti-illegal immigration group is currently overseeing the construction of a barbed-wire range fence on the border-front property of Jack and John Ladd in Palominas.
Speaking at the May 27 groundbreaking for the Ladd's fence, Minuteman leader Chris Simcox said his group was eyeing a property 4 1/2 miles east of Naco for its next effort.
2 1/2 miles of fence completed (KVOA News, July 5):
The Ladds made it clear before the project started that they wanted a barbed wire fence built to keep Mexican livestock off their pastures, not a stronger, more impregnable fence to keep people off the land, even though they oppose illegal immigration.
... Hair had no details on Israeli-style security fencing and trenches planned on another ranch farther east.
Resident helps Minuteman with huge fence donation (Fountain Hill Times, June 28):
After receiving permission from the last of three ranchers living along the Mexico border, Campbell’s donation was utilized to fund the purchase of 875 19-foot-tall posts to begin the building of a fence along the property line dividing those ranches from Mexico.
Minutemen hire contractor to finish fence (Daily Dispatch, Douglas, June 24):
A press release issued in advance of the Memorial Day event reported that the Minutemen had raised $225,000 for the effort ...
In an unrelated event, the Ladds filed a complaint Wednesday with the Cochise County Sherriff's Office after they discovered that vandals had slashed large sections of the new border fence. Jack Ladd said his son found at least 19 areas of fencing that had been destroyed sometime Tuesday night. And while he said there were no clues to indicate who was responsible, he expected the crime had involved illegal immigration.
"From our perspective, the whole idea of the fence is to keep Mexican livestock out - we know a barbed wire fence isn't going to keep people out," he said. "We want to make it clear that while we oppose illegal immigration, we weren't necessarily trying to keep Mexicans off the land."
Minutemen start fence along border with Mexico (May 28 AP article):
The Minuteman group plans to install fencing, including a combination of barbed wire, razor wire and in some spots steel rail barriers, along the bulk of the Ladds' property in the coming weeks. They hope it prompts the federal government to do the same along the entire Arizona border.
Let's see what gets built.
Sure have. You just neglected to read it, or have chosen to ignore it.
One of the critics is a long time competitor of Chris Simcox's, who instead of appreciating the Minutemen's success at drawing attention to the border problem, has chosen to empower the open border lobby by launching a kneejerk attack.
A couple others were former Minutemen who had designs on their own organization and tried to use the Minutemen's lists to launch it...or totally naive former Minutemen who somehow thought their time on the border was going to be like taking a walk in their city park.
This whole thread has had nothing of substance that degrades my high opinion of Chris Simcox's efforts in the least.
Just slander, personal attacks, twisting of the truth and venom.
What do you think of your friends and allies here using CP slander, Miss Marple? Is that an honorable thing to do? How about that trash from the SPLC?
Your silence is a form of assent.
What a wonderful concept.
Meanwhile, folks better keep up the pressure on those whose job it actually is to secure our southern border: Our elected officials.
I pay attention to FACTS. Even a blind pig finds an acorn once in a while. If those sources are suspect, then it is your job to give us information which proves they are wrong.
This kind of behavior by Simcox and others, including you, is an embarassment to the conservative movement and can do us lasting harm. I make no apologies nor am I letting you get away with your usual bloviation and grandstanding. Your behavior has been abysmal, and you should be embarassed.
I refrained from making ANY comment on this thread until post 600. I didn't want to cause any more ill will, and felt that surely, SURELY, someone would present a different side to the story. You have not. Instead you simply attack anyone who criticizes Simcox and do nothing to explain what's really going on. You are interested in nothing but causing division and dissent within conservative and Republican circles, which is exactly how Keyes and Buchanan have behaved over the years, and which has made them buckets of money at the expense of naive contributors.
Posture all you want. I am not apologizing for one thing I said, unless you can post some PROOF that the money is not being diverted to things other than the fence. And I mean PROOF, not your word, which I do not value as being truthful.
My advice to the Minutemen: Go home. The government doesn't care about illegals: crossing the border, getting welfare, getting Social Security benefits, getting Medicare benefits, reclaiming "their" land, or anything related to immigration. Sad but true.
There are charlatans, Elmer Gantry types among most sectors of society and will be until the end of time is my guess. You'll find that their 'true believers' will never accept that they could be anything but pure, some even after irrefutable proof has been offered. They don't come from any one segment but cross the spectrum of society.
The government can't police all of them and what they do isn't near enough to ferret out the sleaze. It ultimately comes down to each one having to cast an eye upon them and look at their history of what they do and have done.
The bottom line is some do productive work in society, others do a lot of communicating either verbal or written but little else.
I see. You do approve of the SPLC and CP posts.
Just taking note of one more breathtakingly dishonest post from you.
Well, you've had yet another busy day, huh?
I wonder what EV was busy doing today?
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