The End of Christianity in Iraq

Christians of Iraq ^ | July 24, 2006 | Glen Chancy

[AxelPaulsenJr]

"Don't respond when people fly planes into your building!"

Or leave the Jews in the gas chambers and concentration camps, etc.

[ShadowAce]

God hates War.

You are scripturally incorrect.

Mal 3:6 says: "For I [am] the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed."

This passage indicates that God does not change from year to year or day to day. And yet....

Exodus 15:3 says "The LORD [is] a man of war: the LORD [is] his name."
Exodus 17:16 says "For he said, Because the LORD hath sworn [that] the LORD [will have] war with Amalek from generation to generation."
Numbers 10:9 says "And if ye go to war in your land against the enemy that oppresseth you, then ye shall blow an alarm with the trumpets; and ye shall be remembered before the LORD your God, and ye shall be saved from your enemies."--which indicates approval for war.

There are many other passages that indicate you are hopelessly wrong.

As I remember from way back, you always were more obsessed with your perceived ability to "know" the Lord's will that in actually following His will.

Pride is a terrible sin.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

How dare you pretend to speak in Jesus name???

I dare, because I am called by His Name -- i.e, "Christian". Therefore I am under a Moral Obligation to attempt to read His Word as closely as I can, and advocate policies based thereupon.

Do you think Jesus would prefer to leave people oppressed under one of the most murderous tyrannts in world history,

I know for a fact that Jesus Himself could call twelve legions of angels right now, and destroy all the world's tyrannies in one fell swoop -- if He so commanded.

I also know for a fact that Jesus Himself was oppressed (and murdered, in fact), by THE "most murderous tyrannts in world history", the incomparably-vicious Roman Empire -- whose expertly-trained Crucifixioners make Saddam's most malefic torturers look like pissed-off valley girls having a bad hair day.

He was oppressed, and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth: He is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so He openeth not His mouth. (Isaiah 53:7)

My question is this: GIVEN THAT the Christians of Iraq had managed to survive the oppression of their Islamic overlords and keep their Faith for a thousand and more years, UNTIL NOW -- are we American Christians willing to admit that the US occupation of their country has made their situation FAR WORSE?

I mean, they say so, and they're the ones being raped and kidnapped and murdered, so maybe they have some better sense of the situation "on the ground" than do jingoistic American War-Idolaters... so are we willing to ADMIT FACTS, or not?

To me, Christianity is about historical Facts -- like the historical Fact that Jesus rose from the dead. It's not a matter of wishy-washy Easter Bunny "Faith", it's about FACTS. And the Fact is, Christianity in Iraq is being Destroyed, directly as the result of the US Occupation (nothing ELSE in the last 1,400 years has damaged Iraqi Christendom so badly, so WHAT CAUSED THE CURRENT EFFECT? A sudden inexplicable hemmorhoid epidemic??)

Kick in a snake's nest, and guess what -- you'll get snakes!!

Present difficulties notwithstanding, Iraq will one day be free and peaceful and Christianity will again flourish.

No, it WON'T.

HERE is the reality of the situation:

I realize that those Americans who think we should pull out the troops will be accused of cutting and running. But those who make this accusation have yet to produce any policy that shows how American forces and American tax money can produce peace in the midst of a Sunni-Shi’ite civil war. This conflict is rooted in 1400 years of distrust and the longing for revenge. The Shi’ites’ major public liturgical rite is self-flagellation with whips, which is symbolic of the sect’s resentment against the Sunnis.

Some 3,149 people were killed in June alone, or more than 100 a day, and the figure is likely to rise higher this month because of tit-for-tat massacres by Sunni and Shia Muslims. Some 120 Shias were killed in two attacks earlier in the week and gunmen yesterday kidnapped 20 employees of a government agency in Baghdad looking after Sunni mosques and shrines. That figure would be the equivalent of 161,500 in the United States. Can you imagine the state of mind of Americans if Protestants and Roman Catholics were killing each other in these numbers? We would call it a return of the Thirty Years War (1618–48), in which half the population of Germany died in religious war. That was the most devastating war on civilians in European history. ~~ Gary North, "Tossing Greenbacks Into the Tar Pit"

I am beginning to think that the die-hard supporters of the War in Iraq are deluded -- actually, psychologically, DELUDED -- beyond the scope of rational discussion.

When are you people -- by which I mean the whole gamut of World-Policing, Nation-Building, Messiah-State Neo-Conservatives -- finally going to understand the basic wisdom of Scripture, and come to terms with the fact that Islam is a SATANIC Religion!? It is a False Religion, it is a Christ-Denying Religion, it is a Bible-Perverting Religion... Islam is nothing but a particular Denominational form of SATANISM, alright?!

You CANNOT build a functioning, Western-style Democracy upon a foundation of SATANISM, fer' crying out loud!! When a People are enslaved to Satanism, and you give them "Democracy", they WILL vote Hamas and Hezbollah into Power.

Happy Ashura, everyone!!

Provide the Muslims with "Democracy", and you will get MORE of the above, not less. The Blood-Cultists are NOT the "extreme", "radical" fringe of Islam; they are, in fact, the devout, faithful, normative tradition of Islam.

[OrthodoxPresbyterian]

Bringing people to Christ through irritation and annoyance.

Just call me the sand in the oyster, kemosabe.

God makes the pearls; my job is only to provide the irritation.

Best, OP

[AxelPaulsenJr]

I dare, because I am called by His Name -- i.e, "Christian". Therefore I am under a Moral Obligation to attempt to read His Word as closely as I can, and advocate policies based thereupon.

Your post is offensive and very un Christ like, give it up. You aren't winning any souls for Jesus, but then that wasn't really your purpose in all of this, was it?

[justshutupandtakeit]

Apparently God has decided to leave a billion people in darkness and damnation. All the more glory when he redeems them I suppose.

Though no one has claimed Islam to be positive OR a basis for democracy.

[BritExPatInFla]

Or maybe Christianity isn't wanted there, Y'think? It's a Muslim country, they look at christianity the same way you look at Islam, that it's a false religion. We don't want Muslims around they don't want Christians around. Pretty simple solution.

[Tailgunner Joe]

So we should let our enemies plot against us simply to serve the interests of foreigners?

Sorry, but we didn't liberate Iraq to "spread democracy" but to destroy our enemy.

America's interests come first.

[uglybiker]

Bringing people to Christ through irritation and annoyance.

aka: The Bible As Blunt Instrument Method.

[George W. Bush]

I am beginning to think that the die-hard supporters of the War in Iraq are deluded -- actually, psychologically, DELUDED -- beyond the scope of rational discussion.

Actually, it's little more than blind partisanship. You may recall the outrage here at FR when Clinton became involved in the mess in Sarajevo and Kosovo under the U.N. banner. Such howls of outrage are still echoing. And as the run-up to the 2000 election approached, both Bush Junior and McStain came out supporting him. More howls of outrage.

It seems that whether a war is good or not revolves mostly around whether it's your monarch or the alternate monarch which started it and is likely to receive credit for it.

The only likely thing that will change the uber-patriots from all-out support for the Iraq occupation would be the elction of Her Thighness in 2008. Then, suddenly, a great truth might dawn upon both the Dim anti-war hacks and the GOP partisans as well. Then they would play musical chairs and exchange rhetoric and their crib notes.

When are you people -- by which I mean the whole gamut of World-Policing, Nation-Building, Messiah-State Neo-Conservatives -- finally going to understand the basic wisdom of Scripture, and come to terms with the fact that Islam is a SATANIC Religion!? It is a False Religion, it is a Christ-Denying Religion, it is a Bible-Perverting Religion... Islam is nothing but a particular Denominational form of SATANISM, alright?!

Not relevant even though Islam is an explicitly anti-Christ religion, going so far as to teach that Christ's crucifixion was a cunning hoax by Jesus and his followers. In fact, it is the Antichrist religion on earth and has been since its founding.

Still not relevant. There's a war on, haven't you heard? No time to worry about one billion Satanic individuals who massacre their own and also rape and murder every Christian they can, a backward barracks religion that masquerades as a civilization of medieval ambitions.

[retreating to my bunker now]

[George W. Bush]

Sorry, but we didn't liberate Iraq to "spread democracy" but to destroy our enemy.

If only.

I agree with Mark Levin and Ann Coulter. We should have carpet-bombed at least a dozen major Iraqi cities into complete rubble and allowed their inhabitants to die.

That would have been actual progress if we were serious about achieving our war aims.

However, I oppose the use of nuclear weapons except for our own national defense. Iraq doesn't rise to that level of threat. But a campaign of massive destruction in Iraq would give our entire arsenal, including nuclear, a far greater leverage because our enemies and our allies would understand that we were perfectly willing to use it when threatened or hit, as we were on 9/11. Such bold action would also have tilted the geopolitical balance toward us in New Europe even more strongly and we would have had even more allies. Especially since we would have been able to guarantee a steady flow of oil.

If it is to be war, then let it be all out. Few things are as destructive as sustained low-intensity conflict. No pantywaist nation-building missions, no spreading democracy crap. Bomb them into the Stone Age, then tell the survivors they are not allowed to practice Islam (Nazism, communism, emperor worship) and they will henceforth conduct themselves as democratic republics with universal human rights within their domains but under our military supervision for at least the lifetimes of those who survived our attack.

For examples of a successful use of these tactics, see Germany and Japan, circa 1945.

Naturally, one can formulate various opinions on whether Iraq was as suitable a target in the War On Terror as Afghanistan was. I personally believe that Saudi Arabia and Iran are the real homes of the Islamonazi threat. History may demonstrate that Iraq was a useless diversion in which we dawdled away our remaining time to stop the threat of a nuclear Iran, the real home of the mad mullahs.

[jude24]

Do you even know why the coalition fought against the leadership of Iraq? I didn't think so. Idiot.

I've known OP for six years. He's hardly an "idiot." Not everyone who disagrees with you does so from ignorance.

[jude24]

How dare you pretend to speak in Jesus name???

Why? Christian Right - Pat Robertson, James Dobson, and their nefarious ilk - do so with impunity.

[jude24]

I agree with Mark Levin and Ann Coulter. We should have carpet-bombed at least a dozen major Iraqi cities into complete rubble and allowed their inhabitants to die.

That'd make us terrorists. No thanks.

That would have been actual progress if we were serious about achieving our war aims.

Being serious about the war doesn't require that we commit atrocities. It would have required more ground troops to stabilize the region and keep law and order, and forestall the sectarian violence we now see.

[jude24]

War is Evil. God hates War.

I'm not convinced God hates war - He sure ordered His share of it, and in Luke 3:14, the soldiers weren't told to quit, but just not to oppress.

Personally, I take the Augustinian-Aquinas viewpoint - that war is sometimes the lesser of two evils, a measure of last resort to prevent the greater harm of loss of innocent life. From that thesis logically follows my requirements of both justice in cause and justice in actions (jus ad bellum and jus in bellum). This, I believe, is the historically Christian viewpoint.

As applied to Iraq, that's a thornier question. This was a preemptively defensive war, started under the mistaken assumption that Saddam had WMD's and he would use them against us. This proved not to be true, but it sure seemed plausible at the time.

[P-Marlowe]

Of course, it doesn't matter if the Bush War Policy results in the total annihilation of a million Iraqi Christians; because, after all, he had "good intentions". Conservatives, Liberals, whatever, doesn't matter anymore... we're all believers in Situational Ethics now.

Hey OP, who's really in charge?

Prov 21:1

[George W. Bush]

That'd make us terrorists. No thanks.

Nonsense. Unless you consider nearly all our presidents and generals and soldiers in major American wars prior to 1980 to be 'terrorists'.

This kind of thinking is just goofy.

The job of the military is war. Break things, kill people, bomb countries into submission. If you can't handle the stress of thinking about it, go take a quiet douche in the boudoir.

Being serious about the war doesn't require that we commit atrocities. It would have required more ground troops to stabilize the region and keep law and order, and forestall the sectarian violence we now see.

Wrong, wrong and wrong. All wars have unavoidable atrocities. It is a civilian fantasy that wars can somehow be bloodless affairs conducted without impact on civilians. It's never true. And it would have required far fewer troops if we had bit the bullet and really wreaked havoc on them. Fire and brimstone. And the sectarian violence is largely an internal matter that will proceed at the same pace under Saddam, under us or after we leave. See the last thousand years of Arab Muslim history if you're not convinced.

[darkwing104]

IB4TZ?

No...

[stands2reason]

Maybe the poster only speaks for blonde Jesus.

[stands2reason]

Your Jesus looks Scandinavian.