Posted on 08/12/2006 5:59:58 AM PDT by Man50D
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It is regressive. I you make $10,000 per year and I make $100,000 per year and we both buy a boat for $1,000 at say, 10% tax then we both pay $100. That $100 is only 0.1% of my income and 1.0% of your income. That's a regressive tax system. We need a flat tax.
Silly ass reasoning on your part. To start with no one who makes 10,000 is going to buy a boat for a 1000, it would take all their money just to eat.
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Oh good grief! It's an example! The boat can be any item! Get real! You simply are not good with math and it shows.
People who make more pay a less percentage of their income for ANY ITEM! THAT'S A REGREESSIVE TAX!
Good God! *sigh*
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I agree with you, Flat Tax is the only "fair tax" not this national sales tax which will end up taxing everything from the number soda cans in your trash, plus the deposit which some states already have, to the number of time you flush the "john crapper"
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Finally a sane person! We do need a flat tax and not this scam of a fair tax which is regressive.
The former is effective. The latter is just begging to be a tax audit martyr.
Thank you again for reinforcing my point. You very clearly the point out the IRS exists as a form punishment to suppress the people instead of merely enforcing the tax code. All the more reason to abolish the IRS by any means necessary.
IT IS OUR GOVERNMENT...BY THE PEOPLE...AND WE SHOULD BE THE ONES TO CHOOSE.
Please do not claim that someone is bad with math, when you are advocating a Flat Tax over the Fair Tax. You can call it whatever you want, progressive, regressive, you can even call it a pumpkin if you wish, but the Fair Tax will dramatically increase tax revenues, put more people into the tax system, including the weathly (remember there are people like the Kerry's who report very little income, but spend BIG each year who pay very little taxes. The Fair Tax is the only way to be truely FAIR with America, and get everyone to pay their share, including the poor people who like to spend their welfare checks on expensive items they should not be getting when financed by the government.
It's not a "prebate". The entitlement payment, set by estimates of poverty levels, is made regardless of the taxes paid by the recipient, if any.
I am wonderful with math. You are the one who is not good with math. Rich people spend more than poor people. Income taxes lead to higher and higher taxes. If the history of the last 100+ years hasn't taught you that then you are unable to learn. The fair tax isn't meant to be an "income" tax. We have sales taxes now, that means that the rich, according to your reasoning, pay less percentage than the poor. Should we do away will all sales taxes and incorporate them into an income tax? By your reasoning, yes! By mine, no.
Sales taxes are the only fair tax, fair to rich and poor alike. Why should rich people pay a higher percentage of their money than poor people? Are you a socialist? A sales tax of any kind taxes the rich at the same percentage for each item and the rich BUY MORE, they buy expensive cars, they buy expensive boats, they buy expensive jewels etc, the poor do not, therefore rich people will end up paying more taxes then poor people. Those few rich people who do not spend their money will get to keep more of it.
This is fair, everyone should be taxed equally and sales taxes are the only fair way to do it.
It all works out and is more fair than an income tax. Every flat income tax will eventually turn into a progressive income tax and is to be avoided. Your only argument against the fair tax is that somehow the rich won't pay taxes. Definitely a socialist attitude. You can't give me a reasonable explanation why the fair tax is unfair to poor people so you lose your temper and try to say I have no math skills, an adhominem attack that doesn't advance your argument at all. I have laid it out here for you in very simple terms that even a person of your limited ability should be able to understand(tit for tat jerk wad).
Yeah... My liberal economics professor tried to shove this regressive tax math down my throat as well. But it's really a matter of timeframe. For example, suppose we have the following scenarios:
$10,000 wage earner
$1000 boat @ 10% tax = $100 --> 1.0% tax with respect to total income
$1000 car @ 10% tax = $100 --> 1.0% tax with respect to total income
$100,000 wage earner
$1000 boat @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 car @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 chair @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 bubble gum @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 TV @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Tree @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Gun @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Binoculars @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Jeans @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Shirt @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
$1000 Dress @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
...
$1000 Designer Dog @ 10% tax = $100 --> .1% tax with respect to total income
-- You get the idea
In each individual case, you can divide the tax paid into the income and calculate the instantaneous tax rate. Now, if we look at it for the entire wage earning period...
$10,000 wage earner
$2000 expenses @10% tax = $200 --> 2.0% tax with respect to the total income
$100,000 wage earner
$20,000 expenses @ 10% tax = $2000 --> 2.0% tax with respect to the total income
So the next typical arguement is... A $1,000,000 wage earner won't spend as much, so it's regressive. Again, it depends on the time frame used. Expand the time frame to the wage earner's lifetime. In most cases, most if not all of the money is eventually utilized for purchases.
Realistically, the 'Flat' tax and a 'Fair' tax accomplish the same thing -- everyone is taxed at the same rate. It's a matter of the timeframe as to when the tax is collected.
Note to mojave - on FR it's not good to be socialist! (or anywhere FTM!)
Wrong. Correct is "you make $10,000 per year and I make $100,000 per year and I buy a boat for $1,000 and you don't because at $10,000 per year, you have no business buying a boat, at 10% tax then I pay $100.
"We need a flat tax. "
You need to think before you write. The present income tax started as a "flat tax" and is described by no one as that presently - except perhaps you.
and flat tax has serious downsides as shown in this post.
For some further insights see what a tax preparer has to say about a flat tax:
Flat Tax as Seen by a Tax Preparer
by Vern Hoven
The FairTax is certainly not "regressive" as a tax and can be more fairly described as proportional. I see though, that several posters have spotted the fly in your ointment.
The person making 10 K will just have to buy a rubber raft from Walmart.
Or...just invest his money, and not pay ANY taxes at all.
That's not regressive.
How do they know that each of these 700,000 is a different person, and of course its growing, no one is ever removed from the email list of cumulative "supporters".
More than likely there are less than 50,000 people out there who strongly support this hare-brained plan, and most of them think they're gonna get a bunch more money if this were to pass. If they knew the truth that there is no Free Lunch, they'd likely find another cause to fill their free time.
We'll see how close this petition gets to 700,000 since I'm sure that they are sending a note to all of their "supporters".
read my tag line
No, I oppose your massive entitlement scheme.
I subscribe to Grassfire's e-mail list. These guys are go getters. I'm glad to see they are on board. I have seen their immigration billboards along the roads. They get things done. You can't stop a freight train.
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